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Posted: 4/13/2017 8:11:36 AM EDT
I finally got my paws on a couple full auto lowers to complete the 2nd part of my test: testing the failure point of a medium heavy profile AR-15 barrel under a full auto firing cycle.    

An identical melonite barrel was also tested under the same conditions (stay tuned) which include:

-barrel is mil spec in terms of material (4150CMV/MP/HP/CL/stress relieved/ect)
-it was approximately 80 degrees at the time of the test
-55gr brass cased 223 ammo used

Upper:
-Geissele Mk4 rail, A2 flash hider, Faxon BCG, Geissele CH, Holosun 503G with ACSS reticle in Geissele mount, Aero Precision upper, lubricated with ALG Go-Juice, Super 42 system (later added extra tungsten buffer)

Unrelated fun fact----I had a burn mark on my chest in the shape of a Magpul SL stock when the test was over --- that's how hot everything got....

Enjoy!

AR-15 Full-Auto Meltdown! Chrome Lined Barrel (HD)
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 8:35:33 AM EDT
Awesome.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 8:42:27 AM EDT
Cool test!   Thanks for sharing it.

Maybe I missed.  How did the red dot hold out?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 8:47:51 AM EDT
did you not do a accuracy test before/after??

was this just burning up a gas tube?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 8:50:33 AM EDT
For science!
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 8:53:29 AM EDT
Tag for watching later.  Seems like an interesting test.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 9:13:40 AM EDT
sure seems like an over gassed barrel. from that camera angle it looked like 2 o'clock ejection.

what do you think the choking problems were towards the end? lube drying out? just too hot and chamber swelled up?

thanks for posting, your luck to be able and have such fun. i always enjoy and good stress test.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 9:31:12 AM EDT
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Quoted:
did you not do a accuracy test before/after??

was this just burning up a gas tube?
View Quote
I believe that was the first video.
Melonite vs. Chrome Lining: AR-15 Meltdown Base Accuracy Test (HD)
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 12:11:44 PM EDT
I know it would take a lot of time but tests like these seem to be more for fun.

I want a test between chrome and melonite and brass and steel with more if a normal shooting schedule.

Then we could try to settle the debate. While fun, full auto dumps dontvreally prove much or help the average shooter pick one over the other.

ETA at 9:15 he starts to say he's impressed. I'm not. When IV did it the gun he used pretty much just worked until it died. Wasn't it a BCM?  

And again, the video confirmed, these test do little but blow has systems.

I know I'm beingvtge party pooper but meh. Show me long term, realistic testing.

Better yet someone sponser me and I'll do it. Going with the "you want something done right" mantra and all that jazz.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:02:54 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I know it would take a lot of time but tests like these seem to be more for fun.

I want a test between chrome and melonite and brass and steel with more if a normal shooting schedule.

Then we could try to settle the debate. While fun, full auto dumps dontvreally prove much or help the average shooter pick one over the other.

ETA at 9:15 he starts to say he's impressed. I'm not. When IV did it the gun he used pretty much just worked until it died. Wasn't it a BCM?  

And again, the video confirmed, these test do little but blow has systems.

I know I'm beingvtge party pooper but meh. Show me long term, realistic testing.

Better yet someone sponser me and I'll do it. Going with the "you want something done right" mantra and all that jazz.
View Quote
These tests are fine as long as they put the same stressors on each barrel.  A "normal shooting schedule" would take years.  What are you going to do, shoot 200 rounds a month through the barrels for the next 10 years?  If you put 1025 thru this barrel and then 1025 through the next in the same way, it can show you which treatment is better at resisting wear.  If this barrel got out 1025 before the gas tube ruptured and the next barrel only gets 600 rounds, that is a big enough discrepancy to make this test pretty meaningless but as long as the two barrels are subjected to the exact some conditions, I am perfectly satisfied with this.  

ETA IV did not use a BCM... it was kinda just a random parts rifle.  It also died way before 1025 rounds
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:13:19 PM EDT
I'm impressed with how well the CL held up.
Can't wait to see what the Melonite finish will hold up after the test.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:14:22 PM EDT
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Quoted:
ETA IV did not use a BCM... it was kinda just a random parts rifle.  It also died way before 1025 rounds
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IV's barrel was a Faxon Stainless Steel... We all know SS barrels can't stand the same abuse as a Mil spec steel barrel
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:15:16 PM EDT
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Quoted:


These tests are fine as long as they put the same stressors on each barrel.  A "normal shooting schedule" would take years.  What are you going to do, shoot 200 rounds a month through the barrels for the next 10 years?  If you put 1025 thru this barrel and then 1025 through the next in the same way, it can show you which treatment is better at resisting wear.  If this barrel got out 1025 before the gas tube ruptured and the next barrel only gets 600 rounds, that is a big enough discrepancy to make this test pretty meaningless but as long as the two barrels are subjected to the exact some conditions, I am perfectly satisfied with this.
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I disagree. These tests introduce way more heat than a normal shooting schedule and heat plays a huge role in the degradation of the barrel.

And yes, it'll take time. So?  Should we not search for the best possible answer and do the best reasesrch because it's "hard" or "it will take a long time"?

Sorry. Theses tests are mostly click bait. Again. Im not bagging on them but once you've seen one you've seen them all. Around 800 rounds thegas system goes. Test over.

Unless it's the piston POF. Many that's a fucking winning AR. IV abused the piss out if and it still pretty much wanted to work after, what, 2500 rounds. Give it take. It made me give POF and piston guns a second look.

ETA. Oh, I thought it was a BCM. Yeah, it died around 800 I thought. That's about where they all (DI) croak.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:16:18 PM EDT
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Quoted:

IV's barrel was a Faxon Stainless Steel... We all know SS barrels can't stand the same abuse as a Mil spec steel barrel
View Quote
Correct.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:27:28 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Correct.  
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Also, IV's barrel was a thinner barrel than the medium tapered barrel shown in MrGnG's video.
However, MrGnG is testing Melonite vs CL, we shouldn't compare it to other torture tests.

I really appreciate people doing these tests.
We can each 'absorb and filter' the provided information, there is no need to attack/oppress other people's efforts.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:31:52 PM EDT
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Quoted:


I disagree. These tests introduce way more heat than a normal shooting schedule and heat plays a huge role in the degradation of the barrel.

And yes, it'll take time. So?  Should we not search for the best possible answer and do the best reasesrch because it's "hard" or "it will take a long time"?

Sorry. Theses tests are mostly click bait. Again. Im not bagging on them but once you've seen one you've seen them all. Around 800 rounds thegas system goes. Test over.

Unless it's the piston POF. Many that's a fucking winning AR. IV abused the piss out if and it still pretty much wanted to work after, what, 2500 rounds. Give it take. It made me give POF and piston guns a second look.

ETA. Oh, I thought it was a BCM. Yeah, it died around 800 I thought. That's about where they all (DI) croak.
View Quote
I hate to break it to you but almost nothing you use is tested under normal use.  Why do you think diabetes control is measured by A1c levels and drug screens detect metabolites?  You have to use practical tests and sometimes that involves testing for surrogate markers when testing for the exact thing you are looking for is either impossible or impractical.  Also, individual #1's "normal" shooting schedule may not be the same as individual #2's normal shooting schedule so putting so much extra time into a test that will still be imperfect is ridiculous in my opinion.  So i guess we are just going to disagree on this one.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:55:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:58:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 2:13:01 PM EDT
IDK, that setup seemed to generate a lot of heat early.....
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 2:17:09 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Correct.  
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Quoted:
Quoted:

IV's barrel was a Faxon Stainless Steel... We all know SS barrels can't stand the same abuse as a Mil spec steel barrel
Correct.  
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_130/158390_My_18_month__15K_rounds_SS_barrel_range_report_.html
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 2:56:30 PM EDT
I AM impressed.....1000+ rounds straight of full auto on a build NOT designed to be a freakin machine gun.  What more do you want from a RIFLE?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 2:58:28 PM EDT
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Quoted:


I hate to break it to you but almost nothing you use is tested under normal use.  Why do you think diabetes control is measured by A1c levels and drug screens detect metabolites?  You have to use practical tests and sometimes that involves testing for surrogate markers when testing for the exact thing you are looking for is either impossible or impractical.  Also, individual #1's "normal" shooting schedule may not be the same as individual #2's normal shooting schedule so putting so much extra time into a test that will still be imperfect is ridiculous in my opinion.  So i guess we are just going to disagree on this one.
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Stop feeding the troll. This is the same guy that bitched about Molon's accuracy testing not being scientific enough. Let him wallow in his sad existence of not finding joy in anything and instead be thankful that Mrgunsandgear is burning up perfectly good ammo to share some data with us that us normal people will never be able to do.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 3:21:06 PM EDT
Double.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 3:22:48 PM EDT
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Quoted:


Watch the brass at the start of the first magazine. Its ejecting perfectly and THEN the heat sets in quickly and starts doing fun things!
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No offense meant here, but it made it through like 10 rounds before carrier velocity went way, way up and ejection shot up to the 2oclock area.

If you compare this to what Colt did back in 2007 or so?

It took like 400 rounds to see a change in ejection pattern, and even then the gun went 900+ rounds before the gas tube blew out.

Carrier velocity was all over the place in 12 magazines. Seriously, watch mag 12 at 5:48.

Edit: also, how does a mag release walk out?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 3:35:00 PM EDT
IN.........
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 4:08:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 5:54:21 PM EDT
I may have missed it in the video, but I saw the barrel profile and the BCG was a Faxon, but who's barrel was it? Also a Faxon barrel?

Also, thanks for the test, Mr.G&G. You never know what you'll learn during these kinds of things. Ignore the whiners who are bitching that it didn't meet their expectations. When they put up video of their own testing, then I'll listen to them. I won't hold my breath.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 6:00:26 PM EDT
Cool video.

How'd that dot hold up?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 6:15:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 7:16:24 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I may have missed it in the video, but I saw the barrel profile and the BCG was a Faxon, but who's barrel was it? Also a Faxon barrel?

Also, thanks for the test, Mr.G&G. You never know what you'll learn during these kinds of things. Ignore the whiners who are bitching that it didn't meet their expectations. When they put up video of their own testing, then I'll listen to them. I won't hold my breath.
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How is pointing out the obvious whining?  

It goes pretty much the same way each time a different YouTuber does it.

Are YOU going to get a full auto lower and run it this hard?  

How many people will?

Those are the only people this information is relevant too.  I'm not bagging on GG but I call them like they are. This is just a fun nonsense video. Nothing is learned here. Been done plenty before.

Lots of emotions in this thread. I'm just pointing out the obvious. Sheesh.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 7:20:24 PM EDT
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Quoted:


Stop feeding the troll. This is the same guy that bitched about Molon's accuracy testing not being scientific enough. Let him wallow in his sad existence of not finding joy in anything and instead be thankful that Mrgunsandgear is burning up perfectly good ammo to share some data with us that us normal people will never be able to do.
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I'm sorry facts and intelligence scare you and you have to engage in name calling.

Nothing I have said is wrong. That goes for molon too. Educate yourself on the scientific method and then Come back and see what I'm talking about.

I found joy in the video. Just nothing useful, to most people, on high round count and barrel errosuon since this test was done on full auto and very quickly.

It's the same with the lucky gunner test.

Why does this bother you so much?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 7:23:02 PM EDT
Nice testing.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 7:24:46 PM EDT
Should have done the test with Iconel gas tubes!  That way the gas tube wouldn't be the weak link.  It would also probably take a lot more ammo...
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 7:26:00 PM EDT
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Quoted:
How is pointing out the obvious whining?  

It goes pretty much the same way each time a different YouTuber does it.

Are YOU going to get a full auto lower and run it this hard?  

How many people will?

Those are the only people this information is relevant too.  I'm not bagging on GG but I call them like they are. This is just a fun nonsense video. Nothing is learned here. Been done plenty before.

Lots of emotions in this thread. I'm just pointing out the obvious. Sheesh.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I may have missed it in the video, but I saw the barrel profile and the BCG was a Faxon, but who's barrel was it? Also a Faxon barrel?

Also, thanks for the test, Mr.G&G. You never know what you'll learn during these kinds of things. Ignore the whiners who are bitching that it didn't meet their expectations. When they put up video of their own testing, then I'll listen to them. I won't hold my breath.
How is pointing out the obvious whining?  

It goes pretty much the same way each time a different YouTuber does it.

Are YOU going to get a full auto lower and run it this hard?  

How many people will?

Those are the only people this information is relevant too.  I'm not bagging on GG but I call them like they are. This is just a fun nonsense video. Nothing is learned here. Been done plenty before.

Lots of emotions in this thread. I'm just pointing out the obvious. Sheesh.
First of all, how do you know I don't have an RDIAS? Whether your personal experience says so, or not, there are more guys then you think that tests like this may apply to. Lots of members here are LEO's, have multiple auto guns, and drop-in sears. Hell, this is even applicable to the goobers that do nothing but bumpfire.

Second of all, you need to lighten up. You may think you're "calling it like it is", but you're doing that based on your own experience and/or use of the platform.

Point is, just because these tests and the information that may be gained from them don't apply to your use, doesn't mean they don't apply to others. There are those of us who benefit from seeing these videos, even if it's just out of plain old interest.

BTW, maybe I will post my own test.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 7:27:42 PM EDT
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Quoted:


I hate to break it to you but almost nothing you use is tested under normal use.  Why do you think diabetes control is measured by A1c levels and drug screens detect metabolites?  You have to use practical tests and sometimes that involves testing for surrogate markers when testing for the exact thing you are looking for is either impossible or impractical.  Also, individual #1's "normal" shooting schedule may not be the same as individual #2's normal shooting schedule so putting so much extra time into a test that will still be imperfect is ridiculous in my opinion.  So i guess we are just going to disagree on this one.
View Quote
I understand that but when companies test they aren't doing it for fun.

Yes they push the test but they try very hard to replicate the same conditions most end users will find themselves using the product for.

They don't just crank everything on high with a big grin and see what happened. It would be a waste of time.

For example car company A has a machine that opens and closes a car door. The calibrate the machine to exert the force that an average person closes a car door with.

They don't add 20 pounds of extra pressure. That would make the results useless.

Even when the strap cars to the suspension test they do it in a controlled manner.

Now, maybe one of the battery of tests is an all out, hard as you can test but that's only if they think it will give them useful information.

Again guys, I'm not bagging on GG. I'm not hating the video. I was just disappointed it was a full auto mag dump type if thing.

I actually want to see this test done in a way that replicates what the average shooter does. Then and only then we can disseminate the facts and educate ourselves as to want barrel treatment works better under what circumstance.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 7:32:17 PM EDT
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Quoted:


First of all, how do you know I don't have an RDIAS? Whether your personal experience says so, or not, there are more guys then you think that tests like this may apply to. Lots of members here are LEO's, have multiple auto guns, and drop-in sears. Hell, this is even applicable to the goobers that do nothing but bumpfire.

Point is, just because these tests and the information that may be gained from them don't apply to your use, doesn't mean they don't apply to others. There are those of us who benefit from seeing these videos.

BTW, maybe I will post my own test.
View Quote
Ok. Let's not assume.

How many guys have full auto lowers and are in the market for a barrel and are trying to pick between melonite and CL

Because if you already have the barrel this is moot.

How many guys will be in a position, outside of "fun" or "fucking around", to burn through the ammo and the parts?

I can't think of one scenario where a guy will be in a position where he HAS to dump 1000 all at once rounds through his carbine to fulfill a legitimate roll in a firefight.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 7:33:47 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I understand that but when companies test they aren't doing it for fun.

Yes they push the test but they try very hard to replicate the same conditions most end users will find themselves using the product for.

They don't just crank everything on high with a big grin and see what happened. It would be a waste of time.

For example car company A has a machine that opens and closes a car door. The calibrate the machine to exert the force that an average person closes a car door with.

They don't add 20 pounds of extra pressure. That would make the results useless.

Even when the strap cars to the suspension test they do it in a controlled manner.

Now, maybe one of the battery of tests is an all out, hard as you can test but that's only if they think it will give them useful information.

Again guys, I'm not bagging on GG. I'm not hating the video. I was just disappointed it was a full auto mag dump type if thing.

I actually want to see this test done in a way that replicates what the average shooter does. Then and only then we can disseminate the facts and educate ourselves as to want barrel treatment works better under what circumstance.
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Quoted:
Quoted:


I hate to break it to you but almost nothing you use is tested under normal use.  Why do you think diabetes control is measured by A1c levels and drug screens detect metabolites?  You have to use practical tests and sometimes that involves testing for surrogate markers when testing for the exact thing you are looking for is either impossible or impractical.  Also, individual #1's "normal" shooting schedule may not be the same as individual #2's normal shooting schedule so putting so much extra time into a test that will still be imperfect is ridiculous in my opinion.  So i guess we are just going to disagree on this one.
I understand that but when companies test they aren't doing it for fun.

Yes they push the test but they try very hard to replicate the same conditions most end users will find themselves using the product for.

They don't just crank everything on high with a big grin and see what happened. It would be a waste of time.

For example car company A has a machine that opens and closes a car door. The calibrate the machine to exert the force that an average person closes a car door with.

They don't add 20 pounds of extra pressure. That would make the results useless.

Even when the strap cars to the suspension test they do it in a controlled manner.

Now, maybe one of the battery of tests is an all out, hard as you can test but that's only if they think it will give them useful information.

Again guys, I'm not bagging on GG. I'm not hating the video. I was just disappointed it was a full auto mag dump type if thing.

I actually want to see this test done in a way that replicates what the average shooter does. Then and only then we can disseminate the facts and educate ourselves as to want barrel treatment works better under what circumstance.
If you want the test done the way you want it done, then why don't you do it instead of whining about the way others choose to do it?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 7:36:03 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Ok. Let's not assume.

How many guys have full auto lowers and are in the market for a barrel and are trying to pick between melonite and CL

Because if you already have the barrel this is moot.

How many guys will be in a position, outside of "fun" or "fucking around", to burn through the ammo and the parts?

I can't think of one scenario where a guy will be in a position where he HAS to dump 1000 all at once rounds through his carbine to fulfill a legitimate roll in a firefight.
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Quoted:
Quoted:


First of all, how do you know I don't have an RDIAS? Whether your personal experience says so, or not, there are more guys then you think that tests like this may apply to. Lots of members here are LEO's, have multiple auto guns, and drop-in sears. Hell, this is even applicable to the goobers that do nothing but bumpfire.

Point is, just because these tests and the information that may be gained from them don't apply to your use, doesn't mean they don't apply to others. There are those of us who benefit from seeing these videos.

BTW, maybe I will post my own test.
Ok. Let's not assume.

How many guys have full auto lowers and are in the market for a barrel and are trying to pick between melonite and CL

Because if you already have the barrel this is moot.

How many guys will be in a position, outside of "fun" or "fucking around", to burn through the ammo and the parts?

I can't think of one scenario where a guy will be in a position where he HAS to dump 1000 all at once rounds through his carbine to fulfill a legitimate roll in a firefight.
Who cares whether someone "has to", or not? It's interesting what happens none the less. Don't you see that? Not everything has to be practical. Ever heard of having fun and maybe even learning something in the process? I'm guessing you've never been to a machine gun shoot. We spend whole weekends burning through cases and cases of ammo just for the hell of it. Can you believe that?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 7:46:59 PM EDT
Excellent video sir, as always. 

In for the QPQ Nitride barrel test. 
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 8:02:17 PM EDT
Want that a mid length?  How is that a colt gas tube?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 8:06:39 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Want that a mid length?  How is that a colt gas tube?
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Colt makes a mid-length.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 8:06:47 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Should have done the test with Iconel gas tubes!  That way the gas tube wouldn't be the weak link.  It would also probably take a lot more ammo...
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I don't think with all those FTFs and stovepipes the gas tube was the weak link.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 8:11:23 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I don't think with all those FTFs and stovepipes the gas tube was the weak link.
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Should have done the test with Iconel gas tubes!  That way the gas tube wouldn't be the weak link.  It would also probably take a lot more ammo...
I don't think with all those FTFs and stovepipes the gas tube was the weak link.
There were a lot of malfs. Can't say I remember that with IV's test.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 8:38:59 PM EDT
What a shit show of ignorance in this thread....................OP I enjoy your Vids so keep them coming...........
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 8:40:09 PM EDT
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Quoted:
What a shit show of ignorance in this thread....................OP I enjoy your Vids so keep them coming...........
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Yup, Glad to see this test being done. Curious to see if there are any differences with the Nitrited barrel. Good stuff OP and Faxon.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 9:02:57 PM EDT
I have to give it to the Op for doing the test.

I mean that gun, whoever built it....Just no.

From a technical aspect it had 2 Stoppages within the first 210 rounds, and it just got worse from then on. That was seriously an abysmal performance of that rifle.

I mean if that was a factory Colt 6920, Tech would be having such a field day the thread would likely get moved to GD.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 3:51:29 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Colt makes a mid-length.
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Quoted:
Want that a mid length?  How is that a colt gas tube?
Colt makes a mid-length.
I doubt they are Colt gas tubes.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 3:56:24 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I have to give it to the Op for doing the test.

I mean that gun, whoever built it....Just no.

From a technical aspect it had 2 Stoppages within the first 210 rounds, and it just got worse from then on. That was seriously an abysmal performance of that rifle.

I mean if that was a factory Colt 6920, Tech would be having such a field day the thread would likely get moved to GD.
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Something's up with that rifle. The barrel, bolt, bolt carrier, lower, recoil spring and buffer, ammunition, anything else, or a combination were not right. I don't see any way an in spec mag catch could loosen up.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 4:19:01 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Something's up with that rifle. The barrel, bolt, bolt carrier, lower, recoil spring and buffer, ammunition, anything else, or a combination were not right. I don't see any way an in spec mag catch could loosen up.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I have to give it to the Op for doing the test.

I mean that gun, whoever built it....Just no.

From a technical aspect it had 2 Stoppages within the first 210 rounds, and it just got worse from then on. That was seriously an abysmal performance of that rifle.

I mean if that was a factory Colt 6920, Tech would be having such a field day the thread would likely get moved to GD.
Something's up with that rifle. The barrel, bolt, bolt carrier, lower, recoil spring and buffer, ammunition, anything else, or a combination were not right. I don't see any way an in spec mag catch could loosen up.
Did you see how beat up the face of the Geissele rail was? Machine guns vibrate horrendously and beat the ever loving shit out of everything on them.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 4:26:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 4:51:05 PM EDT
Interesting. Thanks for sharing
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