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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/1/2006 3:21:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 3:22:29 PM EDT by ironaddict]
I recently decided to get a semi-auto for defense. So I am all over the internet lookig at the pro's and cons of AR's, AK's and other variants. From reading some of the recent military and law enforcement publications it seems they would have you beleive the AR design is just too unreliable and it is about to be replaced by a gas piston design any day now.

When I was in the service I shot the entire basic training course in the dusty desert in fort bliss without a singe fail to feed, and now with all the recent reading I have done it seems many look on the AR as a unreliable breakage prone system. Was I just lucky?

How many rounds between failure to feeds do you usually experience?


Iron Addict
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:23:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 3:24:16 PM EDT by Rodent]

When I was in the service I shot the entire basic training course in the dusty desert in fort bliss without a singe fail ...


You answered your own question.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:23:39 PM EDT

Most of my ARs have never HAD a failure. I'd expect thousands of rounds without cleaning before I'd worry about "failures"
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:43:01 PM EDT
I had an AK, then I bought a M4gery. I put thousands of rounds through the AK with out a single jam. My new Bushmaster has had about 2000k rounds through it. It has had two failure to feed, but I would say its pretty reliable aslo. If you can, buy both!
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:55:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 4:46:48 PM EDT by Dave_A]
I have fired my personal AR, as well as beat-to-shit M-16s from several different Army units...

The only failures I had were MAGAZINE failures or with blanks due to an insufficiently tightedned blank adapter, and in every case the mag problem was that the mags looked like they'd been run over by a LMTV....

Throughout basic training, the most common jam was a doublefeed, and those suddenly stopped on qual day when we were given new-in-wrap mags.... The majority of soldiers in my BCT unit had never handled a firearm larger than a 9mm pistol prior to joining the Army - most had never fired w weapon before. They couldn't clean rifles for shit, but yet their M16s worked, bad mags excepted...

So from that point I have complete faith in the M16s ability to function reliably if properly maintained...

I have yet to touch a real M4, and don't own a clone at this time....
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:59:09 PM EDT
Lies, all lies I tell you!
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:09:47 PM EDT
Well... I've never had a problem with any of the three (SAR1) AK's and the only problem I've had with one of my three Bushmaster AR15's was with a 40 round POS magazine. The 40 rounder was a gift and just so it wasn't a total loss, it made a great target!

You didn't ask but as long as I'm at it, from what you've listed, IMHO an M4gery would be your best bet.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:42:46 PM EDT
RGT,

I think I have decided on an m4 with an EOtech and BUIS. Just wanted some reasurance before I put my money down. I know how full of shit much of the advice is on the internet since I run my own weight training forum and moderate on 8 others.

Iron Addict
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:55:27 PM EDT
My RRA middy has +1300 rds. through it without a hiccup - it's still a pup compared to others round counts. 90% have been XM855PD...
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:19:50 PM EDT
With a well made AR that has good QC in parts and assembly. No problems.hers,
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:32:41 PM EDT
I have two AK style rifles and seven AR's. The AK's have never had any issues, none. The only problems I have had with my AR's in over 7-8k rounds have been with one bad aftermarket magazine and one Oralight with a sticking follower. By the way, over 6k of the rounds were the laquar coated Wolf 55 grain. Just keep the rifle clean and with good mags, and it will be fine.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:38:33 PM EDT
Mine goes bang...
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:45:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:13:35 PM EDT
Here is my two cents based on the guns I own.

If you are going to have time and access to even moderate cleaning supplies the AR is reliable as heck.

If you are preparing for a situation where you will not have access to cleaning supplies for an indefinite period of time the AK may be better.

When I think of reliability of a gun I think of not only the fouling generated by shooting but the dirt and grime from carrying in woods or in the bed of a truck on a prairie dog hunt. The dirt a gun must accumulate in a combat situation is something most of us on this board will never have to experience. Thanks to those that serve!

On that note. The M16/AR15 seems to be doing well for our heroes.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:33:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 6:42:35 PM EDT by demigod]
There are boatloads of SCUM BAGS out there waiting to SELL you solutions to problems that don't exist.

ETA: be aware that when you see "ENHANCED" in an item description, you're about to get fucked!
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:41:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 6:53:25 PM EDT by Brett_Walker]

Originally Posted By NDT3:
Here is my two cents based on the guns I own.

If you are going to have time and access to even moderate cleaning supplies the AR is reliable as heck.

If you are preparing for a situation where you will not have access to cleaning supplies for an indefinite period of time the AK may be better.

When I think of reliability of a gun I think of not only the fouling generated by shooting but the dirt and grime from carrying in woods or in the bed of a truck on a prairie dog hunt. The dirt a gun must accumulate in a combat situation is something most of us on this board will never have to experience. Thanks to those that serve!

On that note. The M16/AR15 seems to be doing well for our heroes.



Hell, in my experience, they're kinda like cars. Change the oil every 3000 miles/rounds. If you have a paper towel or just a rag, a bottle of CLP, and a pocket knife to scrap away any over the top carbon deposits, and AR will run almost indefinate.

Why do you have to get it spotlessly clean when it is just going to be fithy again in 150-250 rounds? It isn't nearly as bad a staight blowback gun, but piston guns can be pretty nasty too, depending on the design and how the gas is vented. Ak is a long stroke piston, and what gas it doesn't vent out leaks past the piston head onto the piston rod and the bolt carrier. It still runs fithy dirty because of the generous clearances ( NOTE: it is clearances not tolerances) and it has a carrier that weights many times heavier than it has to be, and an operating spring much heavier than it has to be, it has a longer stroke than needed, and no sort of recoil absorbing buffer, and it is way over-powered so to be reliable. That is why the AK just kinda beats your teeth out on full auto, at least on the versions I've fired. It has a very violent action. They do have Very durable, very reliable magazines with a very perfect cartridge for feeding and reliability, IF very heavy and offering poorer ergonomics compared to the compact and staight-in and staight-out drop free magazine well.

Alloy magazines don't rust though. And they are a lot better with magpul followers. Still can be stepping on them.

An M16, especially the rifles, are like shooting a BB gun in comparison.

Oh, and by the way, I've had several failure to feed stoppages with my MAK-90. The right side of the barrel trunnion needs "M4 FEED RAMPS" lol. Allways the right side too, doesn't matter which type of mag, they all do it. I'd imagine it was cut a little off. A few minutes with the chainsaw fill and dremel and it will be all better.

Brett
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