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Posted: 4/27/2004 7:21:53 AM EST
Newbie here with the Optice questions for my M-4

I am pretty sure this treat has already been covered but, unable to find.
May sound stupid question but here it is.

I use my M-4 for 30 – 75yds shooting only with iron ights currently.

ACOG or EOTech ?

Any pros can cons ???
ACOG is 6months back order.

I want somethig faster for sighting.

Tia.
AL.
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 7:49:28 AM EST
For the distance you are using the rifle at, EOTech is your better choice.
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 8:20:11 AM EST
I think I saw an EOTech Group buy in the EE right now.
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 8:49:53 AM EST
I agree with SMGLee. (hey that rhymed!) For 90% of my shooting, I am at 100 yards or less and have an EOTech with BUIS. I am very happy with this set up. My next project will be a 20" upper with an ACOG TA-11. That will be my 50-250+ yard set up.
BTW, there are a couple of EOTechs in the EE available used for a very good price.
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 10:29:40 AM EST
EOTech.

(or Aimpoint )
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 10:53:07 AM EST
For 75y & under and you want FAST?

EO Tech all the way.
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 11:30:12 AM EST
Aimpoint all the way...where's Lumpy 196 when ya need him?
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 12:48:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By ikor:
Aimpoint all the way...where's Lumpy 196 when ya need him?



[Lumpy] AIMPOINT [/LUMPY]
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 1:55:58 PM EST
I don't think you can go wrong with either the Aimpoint or the Eotech. Both are outstanding scopes that excell at the 30-75 yard range. They will both also get you out to about 300 yards with "combat accuracy".
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 6:55:49 PM EST
Get the Aimpoint! the Eotech is plastic, the only plastic on the aimpoint is the flip covers.

Aimpoints a much better product, if anyone does not believe me, send me your eotech and I will give it a few tests

Link Posted: 4/27/2004 8:22:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 8:26:33 PM EST
If you are looking primarily for speed and that is your biggest concern, I would suggest the EoTech as well. Actually, I would suggest the Aimpoint, but... oh well. You get the idea.
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 8:57:15 PM EST
Boom,

EOtech is as rugged as the Aimpoint, if not more. it will take a drop and keep on working.


Lumpy, right back at ya brother..
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 9:19:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/28/2004 12:06:45 PM EST by Boom]

Originally Posted By SMGLee:
Boom,

EOtech is as rugged as the Aimpoint, if not more. it will take a drop and keep on working.


Lumpy, right back at ya brother..



Put your money where your mouth is! Send me a eotech and I will do a fair test against a aimpoint and film it as well. Both sites will go thru the same treatment.
Link Posted: 4/28/2004 3:27:43 AM EST
PincoPala is one of our Italian members. He is in their military. He reported seeing an EoTech mounted to a MP5 being dropped from off a helicopter taking off. I dont recall how high he said it was, but it was high. I do recall him saying the gun fell right on the optic. I also recall him saying the gun was toast but the EoTech worked. Now thats just one story of one optic and one amazing show of durability, and I still like Aimpoints better, but the story is impressive none the less.
Link Posted: 4/28/2004 10:43:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/28/2004 10:48:06 AM EST by meateater]
aimpoint, ampoint, aimpoint
i also have a ta-31, but at that range go aimpoint comp m2. imho

meat
Link Posted: 4/28/2004 11:54:32 AM EST
Aimpoint is a great sight but for CQB, there is nothing faster then a EOTech.

I use my EOTech from muzzle to 300m on a regular basis.

Most of all the SpecOps team working CQB missions have all but switch to EOTechs.
Link Posted: 4/28/2004 12:05:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By SMGLee:
Aimpoint is a great sight but for CQB, there is nothing faster then a EOTech.

I use my EOTech from muzzle to 300m on a regular basis.

Most of all the SpecOps team working CQB missions have all but switch to EOTechs.



I call bullshit, maybe on the west coast but not over here, most units are using acogs or aimpoints. Some do use the EOtech. Lee did you see my response above?


Link Posted: 4/28/2004 1:21:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/28/2004 1:28:51 PM EST by SMGLee]
Sorry, i don't have a sight to send you, you might want to call EOTech for that.

As far as the bullshit you are calling, Special Forces, Delta are using lots of EOTechs. sending over 6000 units to Army as we speak. Canadian JTF2, and German KSK all use EOTechs. depends on what side you are on, the truth is EOTech has been slowly replacing Aimpoints in the specops communities.

I am not here to start another Aimpoint vs. EOTech thread. it has been beaten to death. He asked for EOTech and ACOG and the reply would be EOTech for the distance he would be using it at. if he start another thread on Aimpoint or EOTech then I would point him to the thread from hell tagged above.

Link Posted: 4/28/2004 1:53:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By SMGLee:
Sorry, i don't have a sight to send you, you might want to call EOTech for that.

As far as the bullshit you are calling, Special Forces, Delta are using lots of EOTechs. sending over 6000 units to Army as we speak. Canadian JTF2, and German KSK all use EOTechs. depends on what side you are on, the truth is EOTech has been slowly replacing Aimpoints in the specops communities.

I am not here to start another Aimpoint vs. EOTech thread. it has been beaten to death. He asked for EOTech and ACOG and the reply would be EOTech for the distance he would be using it at. if he start another thread on Aimpoint or EOTech then I would point him to the thread from hell tagged above.




I'm still calling BS on this, there is not 6000 specops guys in our entire country! If you count the teams and the delta units you get maybe, I repeat maybe 2500 and that is on the extreme far end. You cannot count REMFs. What is the sku number for this order?

The army must have a approved number on this big an order, I can show you a order for over 350,000 aimpoint units. Yes I am sure some of the delta units and teams are using them but not 6000!

If you can come up with the order number then I will shut the hell up. But if not, you need to withdraw your statement of 6000 units for specops units.
Link Posted: 4/28/2004 2:20:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/28/2004 2:20:22 PM EST by SMGLee]
I said sending 6000 units to the Army as we speak. Army, My friend. Army. that includes the spec op team, and all those that might have a need for the EOTech.

ARDEC placed an order for 6000 units earlier this year.

Of course Army might have a 350,000 Aimpoint order, they have been using Aimpoint since mid 90s. I am just pointing out that EOTech are replacing some of the Aimpoint that is in service.

You love you Aimpoint and I can understand your position.

Don't get too worked up my friend, I am just a nobody.


Link Posted: 4/28/2004 2:33:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/28/2004 2:36:33 PM EST by Boom]

Originally Posted By SMGLee:
I said sending 6000 units to the Army as we speak. Army, My friend. Army. that includes the spec op team, and all those that might have a need for the EOTech.

ARDEC placed an order for 6000 units earlier this year.

Of course Army might have a 350,000 Aimpoint order, they have been using Aimpoint since mid 90s. I am just pointing out that EOTech are replacing some of the Aimpoint that is in service.

You love you Aimpoint and I can understand your position.

Don't get too worked up my friend, I am just a nobody.





I am not worked up at all, you made the statement and I just called you on it. No hard feelings here, I don't care what anyone uses as long as they are happy

Yes I love the aimpoints but if someone has a better product then I will say so, I just have not seen one yet.

You are not a nobody, you help far more poeple on this site then most. I am the nobody
Link Posted: 4/28/2004 2:39:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/28/2004 2:40:23 PM EST by SMGLee]
Hey what ever works for you is what you need to go with. I have used Aimpoint (I still have two M2 and one M-XD) and found the EOTech to be a better sight. that is just my opinion. much like your, mine is just different.

ARDEC placed a 6000 units purchase order with EOTech, the unit is code name 553 with a different start up, and coated internals to avoid all possible reflections. 3000 units send to Stryker and unnamed number to Spec Ops community. Those are all facts. and i don't might if you call me on it.

Link Posted: 4/28/2004 2:45:27 PM EST
And the winner is........



SMGLee!!!!



Link Posted: 4/28/2004 3:10:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By SMGLee:
Hey what ever works for you is what you need to go with. I have used Aimpoint (I still have two M2 and one M-XD) and found the EOTech to be a better sight. that is just my opinion. much like your, mine is just different.

ARDEC placed a 6000 units purchase order with EOTech, the unit is code name 553 with a different start up, and coated internals to avoid all possible reflections. 3000 units send to Stryker and unnamed number to Spec Ops community. Those are all facts. and i don't might if you call me on it.




OK since you want to keep this going, I call BS again for the third time. # 1 you won't send me one of your EOtechs for testing, # 2 you cannot provide a Army contract number and # 3 here is a pic of a Stryker unit, How many EOtechs do you see compared to Aimpoints? I thought they all had EOtechs, what happened? Where are the 6000 units? not with these guys.

Get your facts togeother and come back, so you can play with Boom.

Mattld who is the winner now?

Link Posted: 4/28/2004 3:15:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/28/2004 3:16:13 PM EST by POOR_MAN]


What about the Trijicon Tri-power? any good?
Link Posted: 4/28/2004 3:54:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By SMGLee:
Most of all the SpecOps team working CQB missions have all but switch to EOTechs.



That is a hell of a broad statement.
Link Posted: 4/28/2004 6:30:04 PM EST
Personally, this has gotten old. I like what I like, and thats all that matters to me. I could post WHY, but then we'd have another 20 page thread debating it.

For most people, an Aimpoint or an Eotech, and especially an ACOG is a major accessory investment. Figure out what your NEEDS are and then somehow, find an example of each an try it out. Only then will you know which one is the best FOR YOU.
Link Posted: 4/28/2004 7:23:29 PM EST
"cant we all just get along?" its all good in the neighborhood!

meat
Link Posted: 4/28/2004 7:29:17 PM EST
I thought I was rather diplomatic
Link Posted: 4/28/2004 7:41:14 PM EST
Focus people, focus. Re-read the topic question - ACOG or EOTech.

I too perfer Aimpoint after seeing it and the EOTech side by side, but that is not the issue. EOTech vs Aimpoint is indeed an interesting topic, and the tacked thread is a good read (hence the place to go if someone wants to add to the "madness" of that thread). Giving alternatives to the original question is indeed helpful information - but beating a dead horse is redundant.
Link Posted: 4/29/2004 6:41:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/29/2004 7:02:40 AM EST by SMGLee]

Originally Posted By Boom:
Mattld who is the winner now?

groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TgDdAsYX1q1ABqjiuNV3c5!0WDBMXWOonLOJYgvuBPkp­y1uwubPS7O9mgw1CDiAlMvd43gnSX5G6WoRgQCMjVWbSJ­IU6zzpUSBbBHY4zkZV0GyusY4zIjg/Stiker%20Pic.BMP?dc=4675470022263589485





Boom, we can do this all day long. I like both optics, ands it is a personal perference as to who likes what. I respect your decision on the Aimpoint, just like Lumpy and I have an understanding. nevertheless, I am an EOTech guy and you are an Aimpoint guy. Kinda like Ford vs. Chevy. Porsche vs. Ferrari, Coke vs. Pepis, or Honda vs. Harley.
Link Posted: 4/29/2004 7:31:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/29/2004 7:33:18 AM EST by Boom]
You are right, but you cannot make statements like this without backing it up. I will leave this alone now.


Originally Posted By SMGLee:
Most of all the SpecOps team working CQB missions have all but switch to EOTechs.

Link Posted: 4/29/2004 7:54:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/29/2004 7:55:07 AM EST by naloxone]
Those are some interesting mounts


PS,
EOTech lover checking in
Link Posted: 4/29/2004 10:28:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Boom:
. # 1 you won't send me one of your EOtechs for testing,


Fine BOOM then send Chen your M2 for HIS testing....

Calling BS because someone won't send you a $350 sight for free?? Buy your own and test it.




# 3 here is a pic of a Stryker unit,


A photo taken PRIOR to the Army ordering the sights you should add.... (that photo was circulated prior to EOTech announcing their order from the Army).

Link Posted: 4/29/2004 12:29:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/29/2004 5:29:40 PM EST
Hey all,

I've got a Compact ACOG 3x with red triangle. I love it for distance shots up to 250 yards (farthest I've tried it). But my newest AR will be wearing an Eotech for 3 gun and cqb stuff (like FDCC matches).

Peace,
Dave
Link Posted: 4/29/2004 8:45:02 PM EST
crumb... you going to sell that Comp ACOG? As you know, Im on a mission from god to collect them all!!!
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 11:27:06 AM EST
I don't get the whole aimpoint vs eotech thing. Sure you can have a pref for one, but they are all non-magnified red dots. Except for durability/features they should all perform the same.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 12:47:45 PM EST
Wow. I was out of the country for a few days and see what I have started before I left.

Thank you all for the inputs.
I will be heading to a local gun shop this weekend to check out both including the Aim point also.

Again, thank you for all the inputs.

Rgds,
Al.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 3:56:24 PM EST
i love that last picture and the clip on shotgun, i wonder what they would saw at work if i clipped one of those on my tool belt !!
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 4:32:10 PM EST
"I'm still calling BS on this, there is not 6000 specops guys in our entire country! If you count the teams and the delta units you get maybe, I repeat maybe 2500 and that is on the extreme far end. You cannot count REMFs. What is the sku number for this order? "

Last I heard there were something like 25,000 Army SF guys. That was back in 2002, since then they have been recruiting a lot of guys.


Compareing orders on issue equipment to better non-issue equipment is mindless. The better gear is not what the ground pounders get in the vast majority of cases. Take gear for example: SDS is not the best gear maker in the country and SDS nylon is crap compared to 1000denier cordura. Many people make a better mousetrap but the better mousetrap costs more $ and when you have to buy 300K at a time the price matters.

I just don't know how you can compare a 600M 4power sight with a reflex sight. at 75yds go with the EO, for better flexibility at greater cost, get the ACOG/DR Optic combo and you have the best of both worlds.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 4:35:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2004 4:36:15 PM EST by Green0]
By the way that picture of a line Mech-infantry unit with a couple EO-techs says a lot, those soldiers liked them enough to purchase them themselves when they allready had free aimpoints.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 4:42:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2004 6:22:01 PM EST by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By Green0:
By the way that picture of a line Mech-infantry unit with a couple EO-techs says a lot, those soldiers liked them enough to purchase them themselves when they allready had free aimpoints.



I seriously do not believe that the SF Operators in SMGLees picture purchased the Eotechs with their own money. Alot of money has been poured into Special Forces over the past few years. This small group probably did prefer Eotechs and the U.S. Army payed for them.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 5:25:33 PM EST
newarguy,

Nah man, I've building a whole different rifle!! The ACOG says on the current one. I'm tired of sharing my AR with my out of work brother so I went and bought another (and another pistol). Damn this hobby is turning out to be as expesive as my sailboat!!!!Peace...
Link Posted: 5/2/2004 7:19:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/2/2004 7:32:39 PM EST by DoorKicker]
Boom you should stop now while you still have a little credibility. There are far more than 6000 SOF In the ARMY alone. That is without counting CAG.
As for the stryker guys pictured, while they are some hard charging High Speed folks, they are as far away from Special Forces as you can get. They are conventional forces.
And as far as SF guys buying their own EOTech, yes this happens and happened alot in Afganistan, this led to the Army buying some too. Aparently the 6000 in question.

I KNOW for a FACT that the EOTECH is held in high regard by Army SF. The Aimpoint is the only optic of the three in discussion that is not liked and this was due to poor performance while useing NV. Not saying all SF dislike the Aimpoint, but that I have only heard bad things about the Aimpoint. The opinion was that of some recently returning SF COMBAT vets from Afganistan. They rave about the EOTech though......


Link Posted: 5/2/2004 7:52:28 PM EST
Not that we are big trailblazers, but our high speed team transitioned from Aimpoints to EoT's a little (two years almost right Chen?) while ago - and it is the current issue CF CCO.

Link Posted: 5/2/2004 8:13:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By DoorKicker:
Boom you should stop now while you still have a little credibility. There are far more than 6000 SOF In the ARMY alone. That is without counting CAG.
As for the stryker guys pictured, while they are some hard charging High Speed folks, they are as far away from Special Forces as you can get. They are conventional forces.
And as far as SF guys buying their own EOTech, yes this happens and happened alot in Afganistan, this led to the Army buying some too. Aparently the 6000 in question.

I KNOW for a FACT that the EOTECH is held in high regard by Army SF. The Aimpoint is the only optic of the three in discussion that is not liked and this was due to poor performance while useing NV. Not saying all SF dislike the Aimpoint, but that I have only heard bad things about the Aimpoint. The opinion was that of some recently returning SF COMBAT vets from Afganistan. They rave about the EOTech though......

carrasco.home.texas.net/mastpara.gif



I live 20 mins from MacDill/Centcom I know dozens of guys all Delta they train with me several times a year when their in town, Delta would not be able to move as a unit if there was 6000 field personnel period.

You EOtech guys are pissed I called him on it, I asked for the number and still have have not recieved it. When you have it we will talk again. Until then go away.
Link Posted: 5/2/2004 8:22:36 PM EST
Boom,

You are mistaking ARSOC for CAG.

I have seen EO's on Dboy guns.


You are also IMHO being an assclown about this issue -
Link Posted: 5/2/2004 8:35:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By KevinB:
Boom,

1. You are mistaking ARSOC for CAG.

2. I have seen EO's on Dboy guns.


3. You are also IMHO being an assclown about this issue -




1. No I am not.

2. I never said they didn't have them, the units can buy their own gear I know that.

3. Hey I'm an ass, I am not here to stroke your ego! I called him on it, I tell it like it is, sometimes that hurts. Remember he said Delta, go back and look.

Where's the proof?
Link Posted: 5/2/2004 8:55:39 PM EST
boom,
I don't care who you PLAY with.

I know only what I know. And I have figured out that you must be about 17 years old and still craping in your pants and popping zits on your ass.

There are 7 deploying and 8 actual ARMY SF Groups world wide. all with atleast 2500 plus members each, and they travel in teams just fine thank you very much. I was a member of 7th SF and am currently w/ 20th.

Next you have 1st 2nd and 3rd Ranger BN's, plus 75 RGT. close to 3000 there.....call one of those guys a REMF and get your ass handed to you.

Next you have the 160th SOAR and I would bet you money even someone that plays w/ folks he thinks are CAG wouldn't call them REMF's.

Then you can still add 4 POG, 112th, 628th and this is just at FT Bragg......all members of USASOC plus some I can't recall.
This is all not counting your buds at CAG and not counting NSW, or AFSOF

Now as for order numbers and what kind of underwear everybody prefers, I don't know. Sorry you will just have to stick with your underoos until you get better intell.
So sit back, take another picture of your AR and post it in a thread..............

MASTER BLASTER

Join Army Special Forces! Ask me how.
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