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1/16/2020 9:48:49 PM
Posted: 10/22/2012 5:12:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2012 5:49:38 PM EST by glug]
I've lately gotten really interested in ACOGs. I currently have an EOTech EXPS3-0 and my original plan was to put a 3x STS magnifier behind it, but the G33 I pre-ordered has been delayed 8 months and I'm starting to wonder if maybe that's a sign I should consider something else :P

Seriously though, ACOGs seem like the generally preferred optic due to versatility, simplicity, no need for batteries, and light weight. My dilemma now is which of the zillions of models to get. I've read up on most of them and am leaning toward either the TA31 or TA11.

As I understand it, the TA31 is used by the military and that's the main reason it's the most popular. It's also shorter and lighter than the TA11, but at the expense of significant eye relief. For only 4 oz more, the TA11 supposedly gives you a lot faster target acquisition and more flexibility in shooting positions due to the fact that you don't have to have your nose right up on the gun. However, you are giving up a bit of magnification (3.5x vs 4x) and some FOV (28.9 vs 36.8 at 100 yards).

The internet seems to clearly prefer the TA11 in a head to head comparison, but I don't know if that's just a cool guy thing because it's less common, or if there is significant consensus around this opinion. I was also thinking for a bit more money I could get a TA31 with an RMR on top and address the fast target acquisition issue that way for short ranges, plus it's extra redundancy on my setup in case the main acog fails. I guess having to use a different cheek weld to use the RMR could be annoying though, I have not tried one.

Finally I should state that my AR is 5.56, so I don't *need* the extra eye relief of the TA11 just to keep from getting a scope in the eye. I am just wondering if it really is that much easier to shoot with.

Edit: BTW I am also debating between Green Chevron and Horseshoe reticles if anyone has thoughts on that. I imagine it's mostly personal preference though.
Link Posted: 10/22/2012 5:39:04 PM EST
I have 2 ACOG'S the TA31A, and TA31F.

I shoot nose to charging handle. I have the GDI mount on one, and the Larue RCO on the second one.

I don't have any problems with the eye relief. I also have a RMR on one of them.

When I shoot cqb, I forget the RMR is even there half the time.

I find the ACOG if used with both eyes open BAC concept does just fine at cqb distance.
Link Posted: 10/22/2012 6:05:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2012 6:12:13 PM EST by BrickShouse]
Originally Posted By glug:
I've lately gotten really interested in ACOGs. I currently have an EOTech EXPS3-0 and my original plan was to put a 3x STS magnifier behind it, but the G33 I pre-ordered has been delayed 8 months and I'm starting to wonder if maybe that's a sign I should consider something else :P

Seriously though, ACOGs seem like the generally preferred optic due to versatility, simplicity, no need for batteries, and light weight. My dilemma now is which of the zillions of models to get. I've read up on most of them and am leaning toward either the TA31 or TA11.

As I understand it, the TA31 is used by the military and that's the main reason it's the most popular. It's also shorter and lighter than the TA11, but at the expense of significant eye relief. For only 4 oz more, the TA11 supposedly gives you a lot faster target acquisition and more flexibility in shooting positions due to the fact that you don't have to have your nose right up on the gun. However, you are giving up a bit of magnification (3.5x vs 4x) and some FOV (28.9 vs 36.8 at 100 yards).

The internet seems to clearly prefer the TA11 in a head to head comparison, but I don't know if that's just a cool guy thing because it's less common, or if there is significant consensus around this opinion. I was also thinking for a bit more money I could get a TA31 with an RMR on top and address the fast target acquisition issue that way for short ranges, plus it's extra redundancy on my setup in case the main acog fails. I guess having to use a different cheek weld to use the RMR could be annoying though, I have not tried one.

Finally I should state that my AR is 5.56, so I don't *need* the extra eye relief of the TA11 just to keep from getting a scope in the eye. I am just wondering if it really is that much easier to shoot with.

Edit: BTW I am also debating between Green Chevron and Horseshoe reticles if anyone has thoughts on that. I imagine it's mostly personal preference though.


Well you have done your research. You need to find a place that carrys them both....I have the TA11 with the green horseshoe. I love it! But I never did see or use the other option so I could be missing something. You truly won't know until you try it for yourself.
I picked the TA11 because of reviews that I had read and I wanted a scope that was more forgiving with eye relief and didn't mind going up a little weight, size. The green horse shoe does not blend into the background for me (Washington is hella green too) and I like the horse shoe because I can just place it on the shoulders of the target and shoot away!
Link Posted: 10/22/2012 7:03:47 PM EST
I've owned both, and shot both from the same rifle. The most noticeable differences between the two are the FOV and the eye relief. The TA31 has the edge on FOV, the TA11 on eye relief. The weight and .5 magnification were negligible IMO. I did find the TA11 to be considerably easier to shoot well than the TA31, except perhaps when stretching out to ~400m when a little more magnification would have been handy.

Link Posted: 10/22/2012 8:41:06 PM EST
I've had and shot both versions quit a bit. I used the TA31 on several deployments and found that for CQB work it required the RMR to be very effective close in. While I never used the TA11 in combat I have used it extensively in carbine courses and matches. I've found the TA11 is great for both close in work and longer engagements out to 3-5 hundred meters. IMO the TA11's longer eye relief makes it easier to shoot both eyes open and negates the need for the RMR. They (TA11) are also preferred optics for a lot of amateur three gunners I know. Not to mention its an ACOG and they're built like freeking tanks. I've got the EXPS with magnifier and I always keep coming back to my TA11. Either way you can't go wrong with an ACOG.
Link Posted: 10/22/2012 8:43:14 PM EST
It really all depends on how you plan to use them. When I first started buying Trijicon stuff, it was all Reflex sights. Then I picked up a TA31F and found that with combat accuracy (that is shooting and moving, not paper punching from a bench) wasn't appreciably better than with the Reflex sight and a little bit slower. So I bought a TA11 and the thing was just too big. I never had eye relief problems with either.

The TA33 seems to be exactly what I need in an ACOG, FWIW.
Link Posted: 10/23/2012 9:00:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
It really all depends on how you plan to use them.


Primary usage will be recreational plinking and target shooting anywhere from 50-600m, but I wouldn't rule out using it for competition or tactical carbine classes in the future. I also subscribe to the idea of having a solid SHTF rifle just in case. I like to invest in robust quality optics that hold zero and aren't going to break on me later, so cost isn't as much a factor as getting the right piece of equipment for my needs.

Right now the EXPS is ok but not really cutting it for target shooting, I'd like to be able to reach out a little further than a 1x RDS allows. I already have a separate bolt action rifle and 10x scope for long range paper punching, so I'm looking for something in between and that will still be light and maneuverable. I was previously looking at just adding a 3x magnifier for my EXPS but the more I look at all the weight and awkwardness it will add, I'm thinking a 3.5-4x ACOG is the better way to go. I still plan to keep the EXPS though, might build a second AR to put it on later.
Link Posted: 10/23/2012 9:45:33 AM EST
For a good all around optic that is slimmer than the TA-11 and has better eye relief than the TA-31, I'd suggest looking at the TA-33. I put one on my AUG CQB because I couldn't get a TA-31HG through my usual dealer and was very pleasantly surprised. It is very forgiving of head position and has excellent clarity.
Link Posted: 10/23/2012 2:28:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
It really all depends on how you plan to use them. When I first started buying Trijicon stuff, it was all Reflex sights. Then I picked up a TA31F and found that with combat accuracy (that is shooting and moving, not paper punching from a bench) wasn't appreciably better than with the Reflex sight and a little bit slower. So I bought a TA11 and the thing was just too big. I never had eye relief problems with either.

The TA33 seems to be exactly what I need in an ACOG, FWIW.


I have a ta33 and i do think its about the best compromise. I love love it. Lightweight, great eye relief ... Much closer minimum focusing distance than the other 2.. And with bac works as a semi red dot for cqb . And its cheap. I compared it side by side to the 31 and went with it, no regrets....
Link Posted: 10/23/2012 2:35:40 PM EST
I have a TA33 and a TA31F. Love them both. Yeah, the eye relief is better with the TA33, but moving up on the stock to use the TA31F is a non-issue for me. No regrets with the TA31F.
Link Posted: 10/23/2012 4:12:46 PM EST
I have both, and both are superb; but my preference is the TA-31F. If you have extensive training with BUIS, then the eye relief should not be an issue. It is designed to be used as if you are using BUIS. Most people don't care for it mainly because they try to use it as if it were a scope. The TA-11, on the other hand, can be used for multiply set ups. I have my TA11 on a fixed rifle length stock, and the TA-31 on an carbine stock fully collapsed.
Link Posted: 10/23/2012 4:44:32 PM EST
Having never used a TA11, I have to say I don't understand all the hate over the -31's short eye relief.

I shoot NTCH, and the relief is just about perfect.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 1:00:24 PM EST
I had it narrowed down to these two myself. In the end I chose the TA31RCO-M4, there is a reason it is the most popular. But either one would be a great choice.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 1:51:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By NCHornet:
I had it narrowed down to these two myself. In the end I chose the TA31RCO-M4, there is a reason it is the most popular. But either one would be a great choice.


While I love my three 4x32 ACOGs, the reason why it's the most popular is because it's what the military uses, and is usually selected with little to know thought given to the individual's applications.

~Augee
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 3:55:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By Augee:
Originally Posted By NCHornet:
I had it narrowed down to these two myself. In the end I chose the TA31RCO-M4, there is a reason it is the most popular. But either one would be a great choice.


While I love my three 4x32 ACOGs, the reason why it's the most popular is because it's what the military uses, and is usually selected with little to know thought given to the individual's applications.

~Augee


no, that isn't it at all. I think most of us will put a lot of thought before spending $1300 on a optic. Even on the used market it is still quite a chunk of money. Maybe you have money laying around but most of us don't. I do think you are correct in a way. They are used by many military units and people see this and they want to be just like a real soldier and have one too, But if they weren't a quality optic most would not keep them like they do. So the exposire that the military gave to the TA31 helped sales, but sure wasn't the major factor in people buying them.

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:01:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By NCHornet:
Originally Posted By Augee:
Originally Posted By NCHornet:
I had it narrowed down to these two myself. In the end I chose the TA31RCO-M4, there is a reason it is the most popular. But either one would be a great choice.


While I love my three 4x32 ACOGs, the reason why it's the most popular is because it's what the military uses, and is usually selected with little to know thought given to the individual's applications.

~Augee


no, that isn't it at all. I think most of us will put a lot of thought before spending $1300 on a optic. Even on the used market it is still quite a chunk of money. Maybe you have money laying around but most of us don't. I do think you are correct in a way. They are used by many military units and people see this and they want to be just like a real soldier and have one too, But if they weren't a quality optic most would not keep them like they do. So the exposire that the military gave to the TA31 helped sales, but sure wasn't the major factor in people buying them.



You and I may not have money laying around, but I assure you, a lot of people do.

I used to work part-time for a shop that was a Trijicon stocking dealer - we had examples of most of the major ACOG types.

I sold a lot of 4x32s to people whose only question was "which one do the Marines use?" and had little to no interest in hearing the various features, pros, and cons of each model.

Since I was the resident "military weapons and optics" guy, a lot of times, any customer expressing the least bit of interest in ACOGs or optics was referred to me - I rarely got far past "Army and Marine Corps standard," or "SOCOM issued" before an RCO, TA01NSN, or ECOS model was on the counter being paid for, before I could even begin explaining the concept of eye-relief, bullet drop compensators, the different reticules, advantages or disadvantages of different magnifications or FOV.

TA33s, TA11s, TA44s, ect. would languish on the shelves, barely even looked through by anyone but me, while 4x32s had to be constantly re-stocked to sell to the next guy (almost always a guy, or at least for a guy) who came in wanting to know what "they" use.

While I love the 4x32 becaus it suits my needs and shooting style, given the variety available for different applications, and based on my experience selling them, which, unless my shop was a total anomaly, which I doubt that it was, I am very confident in stating that the primary reason for the 4x32 ACOG series being so much more popular than other ACOG models is military usage.

I suspect if you asked most other major optics retailers that are Trijicon stocking dealers, they'd report similar experiences.

~Augee
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 10:06:28 AM EST
TA11F-G here. Compared to the other models it had what I wanted for reticles (really like the chevron and ballistic markings, close enough out to 400yd) and the eye relief is handy. .5x is negligible, the green doesn't blend with anything I have encountered from MN to AZ nor does it flare like red under direct sunlight. Run it with both eyes open and you got a RDS for CQC.

Guys who shoot NTCH are not going to complain about eye relief but when you start shooting from non-conventional positions you cannot always shoot NTCH. There have been a few 3gun matches where NTCH was not possible and I used that extra eye relief.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 11:08:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By Augee:
Originally Posted By NCHornet:
Originally Posted By Augee:
Originally Posted By NCHornet:
I had it narrowed down to these two myself. In the end I chose the TA31RCO-M4, there is a reason it is the most popular. But either one would be a great choice.


While I love my three 4x32 ACOGs, the reason why it's the most popular is because it's what the military uses, and is usually selected with little to know thought given to the individual's applications.

~Augee


no, that isn't it at all. I think most of us will put a lot of thought before spending $1300 on a optic. Even on the used market it is still quite a chunk of money. Maybe you have money laying around but most of us don't. I do think you are correct in a way. They are used by many military units and people see this and they want to be just like a real soldier and have one too, But if they weren't a quality optic most would not keep them like they do. So the exposire that the military gave to the TA31 helped sales, but sure wasn't the major factor in people buying them.



You and I may not have money laying around, but I assure you, a lot of people do.

I used to work part-time for a shop that was a Trijicon stocking dealer - we had examples of most of the major ACOG types.

I sold a lot of 4x32s to people whose only question was "which one do the Marines use?" and had little to no interest in hearing the various features, pros, and cons of each model.

Since I was the resident "military weapons and optics" guy, a lot of times, any customer expressing the least bit of interest in ACOGs or optics was referred to me - I rarely got far past "Army and Marine Corps standard," or "SOCOM issued" before an RCO, TA01NSN, or ECOS model was on the counter being paid for, before I could even begin explaining the concept of eye-relief, bullet drop compensators, the different reticules, advantages or disadvantages of different magnifications or FOV.

TA33s, TA11s, TA44s, ect. would languish on the shelves, barely even looked through by anyone but me, while 4x32s had to be constantly re-stocked to sell to the next guy (almost always a guy, or at least for a guy) who came in wanting to know what "they" use.

While I love the 4x32 becaus it suits my needs and shooting style, given the variety available for different applications, and based on my experience selling them, which, unless my shop was a total anomaly, which I doubt that it was, I am very confident in stating that the primary reason for the 4x32 ACOG series being so much more popular than other ACOG models is military usage.

I suspect if you asked most other major optics retailers that are Trijicon stocking dealers, they'd report similar experiences.

~Augee


I'm interested in the TA44 or maybe 2x TA47 series but rarely see info on them. I'm looking for a smaller sized optic with some magnification, generous eye relief that can do double duty as a close range/CQB even though it may not be ideal in that role. Any thoughts?
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 11:36:07 AM EST
I'm a 31 guy. Mainly because I ran a "freebie" for a year, got used to it, and bought my own when I got home.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 6:35:53 AM EST
Thanks everyone, sounds like this is confirming my original thoughts. TA-31 fans seem to fall into two camps:

1) Service people who were issued a TA31, used it shooting NTCH. Liked it and bought their own (makes sense, why change what already works for you).
2) Civilians who wanted to have the same thing issued by the military

I have not yet found anyone who tried both the TA11 and TA31 with no pre-conceived notions and genuinely preferred the latter. If such people exist I'd like to hear from them :-) Even the trijicon rep I talked to recommended the TA11 as a personal favorite.

I went and looked at both in the store and didn't notice a huge difference in eye relief, but they weren't mounted to rifles so it was hard to tell how much difference it would make. The TA31 definitely seemed tiny, much smaller than I imagined. The TA11 was pretty reasonably sized, and actually I think it would look better on a midlength 16" rifle.

The only issue is, I like the reticle models that have the extra ranging bars on the sides, so that pretty much limits me to a TA31RCO or one of the TA11/31-H horseshoe reticle models, which I haven't decided if I like yet. I think I'd prefer a chevron for a less busy sight picture, but I'd probably get used to either.

Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:13:28 PM EST
I have a ta31f mounted on a colt 6940 . I wanted a rugged rifle with a durable optic and this combo pretty well covers all my needs . I shoot nose to charging handle and really just dont have any issues with eye relief or feel the need for a red dot mounted on top. I am a 53 year old electrician not a member of seal team six or los angeles swat team so cqb is more than likely not going to happen although I did go hand to hand with a turkey I thought was dead but suddenly decided it wasnt its time to go yet.. acogs are great and I dont think either one will dissapoint you. good luck with your purchase and have fun shooting.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:32:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By glug:
Thanks everyone, sounds like this is confirming my original thoughts. TA-31 fans seem to fall into two camps:

1) Service people who were issued a TA31, used it shooting NTCH. Liked it and bought their own (makes sense, why change what already works for you).
2) Civilians who wanted to have the same thing issued by the military


Well I wouldn't really go as far as to say that. Some people prefer the smaller size/weight and larger fov of the 01/31 series. I have a TA01NSN and I really didn't like the bulkiness of the 11's, the eye relief on the 01 doesn't bother me at all.
I really do want to try a TA33 though.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:50:17 PM EST


I sold a lot of 4x32s to people whose only question was "which one do the Marines use?" and had little to no interest in hearing the various features, pros, and cons of each model.



~Augee


http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/591501_what_is_the_scope_issued_to_the_usmc_for_the_m16a4_.html


Link Posted: 11/22/2012 6:36:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 6:40:40 PM EST by wayfaerer320]
style='font-weight: bolworksiginally Posted By Augee:[/span]
[span style='font-weight: bold;']Originally Posted By NCHornet:[/span]
[span style='font-weight: bold;']Originally Posted By Augee:[/span]
[span style='font-weight: bold;']Originally Posted By NCHornet:[/span]
I had it narrowed down to these two myself. In the end I chose the TA31RCO-M4, there is a reason it is the most popular. But either one would be a great choice.


While I love my three 4x32 ACOGs, the reason why it's the most popular is because it's what the military uses, and is usually selected with little to know thought given to the individual's applications.

~Augee


no, that isn't it at all. I think most of us will put a lot of thought before spending $1300 on a optic. Even on the used market it is still quite a chunk of money. Maybe you have money laying around but most of us don't. I do think you are correct in a way. They are used by many military units and people see this and they want to be just like a real soldier and have one too, But if they weren't a quality optic most would not keep them like they do. So the exposire that the military gave to the TA31 helped sales, but sure wasn't the major factor in people buying them.



You and I may not have money laying around, but I assure you, a lot of people do.

I used to work part-time for a shop that was a Trijicon stocking dealer - we had examples of most of the major ACOG types.

I sold a lot of 4x32s to people whose only question was "which one do the Marines use?" and had little to no interest in hearing the various features, pros, and cons of each model.

Since I was the resident "military weapons and optics" guy, a lot of times, any customer expressing the least bit of interest in ACOGs or optics was referred to me - I rarely got far past "Army and Marine Corps standard," or "SOCOM issued" before an RCO, TA01NSN, or ECOS model was on the counter being paid for, before I could even begin explaining the concept of eye-relief, bullet drop compensators, the different reticules, advantages or disadvantages of different magnifications or FOV.

TA33s, TA11s, TA44s, ect. would languish on the shelves, barely even looked through by anyone but me, while 4x32s had to be constantly re-stocked to sell to the next guy (almost always a guy, or at least for a guy) who came in wanting to know what "they" use.

While I love the 4x32 becaus it suits my needs and shooting style, given the variety available for different applications, and based on my experience selling them, which, unless my shop was a total anomaly, which I doubt that it was, I am very confident in stating that the primary reason for the 4x32 ACOG series being so much more popular than other ACOG models is military usage.

I suspect if you asked most other major optics retailers that are Trijicon stocking dealers, they'd report similar experiences.

~Augee


Agree.

I was in my local gun shop one time and a guy walked in and asked to check out several handguns. The salesman pulled out a Glock 17, S&W M&P 9, Springfield XD, SIG P226, and a Kimber 1911. As soon as the salesman mentioned the SEALs carry the P226, the guy almost immediately lost interest in the other pistols on the table.

The "use what they use" sales pitch works.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/23/2012 12:58:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By Rob123456789:
Originally Posted By glug:
Thanks everyone, sounds like this is confirming my original thoughts. TA-31 fans seem to fall into two camps:

1) Service people who were issued a TA31, used it shooting NTCH. Liked it and bought their own (makes sense, why change what already works for you).
2) Civilians who wanted to have the same thing issued by the military


Well I wouldn't really go as far as to say that. Some people prefer the smaller size/weight and larger fov of the 01/31 series. I have a TA01NSN and I really didn't like the bulkiness of the 11's, the eye relief on the 01 doesn't bother me at all.
I really do want to try a TA33 though.


I would agree with this - though I'll pass on the TA33 as the FOV is somewhat less than I would like after using 4x32s for so long.

Make no mistake - I prefer the 4x32 over all other ACOGs - but then again, yes, I do shoot pretty close to NTCH. However, concerns that I have when selecting an optic include not only shootability on the range, but ranging reticules, scanning techniques, PID, ect. that go along with military use.

The TA11 is too large, IMHO compared to the 4x32s, and since eye relief is a non-issue for me, I prefer the 4x32s.

~Augee
Link Posted: 11/23/2012 6:35:54 PM EST
I have owned a tao1 and loved it. if I get another acog im going straight back 4x32 not gonna even try a ta11. I shot NTCH so it perfect for me.
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