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Posted: 9/8/2007 3:35:12 PM EST
OK last optics question for a while. I'm looking for a new optic for my RRA midlength. It is primarily used for home defense, hunting, three gun and good old paper punching. I shoot at ranges from 0-300 yards normally with the occasional 400 yard range session. Anything from man sized IDPA targets at all ranges to MOA sized bullseye targets. I've looked at everything I am aware of that is currently available and in my price range ($800 or less). I have ruled out the Leupold cq/t, I don't care for optics that use batteries. I've narrowed it down to the ACOG TA33-8 and the Accupoint TR21. Specs are:

TA33-8:
Specifications:
Magnification 3
Objective Size 30
Bullet Drop Compensator Yes
Length (in) 6.10
Weight (oz) 6.94
Illumination source Tritium/Fiber Optics
Reticle Pattern Chevron
Day Reticle Color Amber
Night Reticle Color Amber
Calibration .223
Bindon Aiming Concept Y
Eye Relief (in) 1.90
Exit Pupil (mm) 10.00
Field of View (°) 3.70
Field of View @ 100yrds (ft) 19.30
Adjustment @ 100 yds (clicks/in) 4
Tube Size N/A
Mount TA60
Mount On/Comes With TA60
Housing Material Forged Aluminum
The TA33-8 also includes:
1 Flat top Mount (TA60)
1 Compact ACOG Scopecoat (TA62)
1 Medium sized Pelican Case (TA88)
1 Lenspen (LENSPEN)
1 Trijicon Logo Sticker (PR15)
1 Manual
1 Warranty Card

TR21:
Specifications:
Magnification 1.25-4
Objective Size 24
Bullet Drop Compensator No
Length (in) 10.20
Weight (oz) 11.40
Illumination source Fiber Optics/Tritium
Reticle Pattern Triangle
Day Reticle Color Amber
Night Reticle Color Amber
Calibration N/A
Bindon Aiming Concept Y
Eye Relief (in) 4.8 to 3.4
Exit Pupil (mm) 16.9 to 6.0
Field of View (°) 11.6 to 3.9
Field of View @ 100yrds (ft) 61.6 to 20.5
Adjustment @ 100 yds (clicks/in) 4
Tube Size 1in
Mount N/A
Mount On/Comes With N/A
Housing Material Aluminum
LaRue Tactical SPR-E LT-139

The price difference between the tow is pretty slim by the time you add in the larue mount for the Accupoint (about $50). The gap widens to about $125 if I buy the Larue mount for the Acog down the road and sell the mount that comes with it. So initially I am lookinf at a price difference of around $50, nut much when you are talking about $700 plus in optics.

Currently I am leaning toward the ACOG based on the fact that it is a more durrable design, has a BDC and reportedly better glass. However the Accupoints variable power and longer eye relief is a big draw. I have had ACOGs with shorter eye relief than the TA33-8 and got rid of them due to the eye relief. So which would you choose given my uses? Any major draw backs of the two that I am missing?
Link Posted: 9/8/2007 3:51:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2007 4:03:03 PM EST by Hokie]
Past 200 yards, you'll appreciate that BDC.


Currently I am leaning toward the ACOG based on the fact that it is a more durrable design, has a BDC and reportedly better glass. However the Accupoints variable power and longer eye relief is a big draw. I have had ACOGs with shorter eye relief than the TA33-8 and got rid of them due to the eye relief. So which would you choose given my uses? Any major draw backs of the two that I am missing?


The eye relief of the TA33 will negate that from being an issue. To me, it sounds like your biggest decision is weighing the importance of variable magnifcation.

Drawbacks on the ACOG, to me include a limited FOV on the TA33. It's not a big deal up close because you shoot both eyes open. Out far it doesn't matter either because it's a deliberate and concentrated shot. To me, the smaller FOV issue comes into play between 75-125 yards. I've always viewed the TA33 as the do-it-all ACOG as it does everything well but not anything 'perfect.' That said, for a general purpose optic it's VERY hard to beat.

Drawbacks on the TR21, to me include the solid triangle and obstructing post below it. For <200 yards it's awesome, past that I find it to be a real pain in the ass trying to get retentively tight groups. Too much in the way. That said, it still works fine for longer shots, but you won't get the same precision you would with the TA33.

One is better up close, the other is better out far. Still, I think the TA33 offers the shooter .. more.

I'd roll with the ACOG. My 2 cents anyway, hell I'd love to own both scopes.
Link Posted: 9/8/2007 3:59:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2007 4:07:54 PM EST by EXCATM76]

hell I'd love to own both scopes

You and me both
Link Posted: 9/8/2007 4:18:46 PM EST
I like my TR21 for short stuff much more than the acog I have on my 308. It is a little bit of a pain in the ass for further shooting, but if you are just shooting steel it works fine. Acog will probably hold its value beter too.
Link Posted: 9/8/2007 4:58:41 PM EST
the ta33. it really is a great comprimise, and the BDC is great. the only thing limiting it is the field of view, but once you play with it awhile and figure out how to use it, it almost becomes a non issue.

that being said i've never been behind the accupoint. just can't find the need for a variable power since the TA33 is so damn versatile.
Link Posted: 9/8/2007 6:05:53 PM EST
I purchased a TA33 a month ago and have only been to the range with it twice. I took it for the 2nd time today and I have a new appreciation for it. It is quick, sharp, clear and spot on....

I am considering getting another one for my build I am working on now.

77Bronc
Link Posted: 9/13/2007 5:02:20 PM EST
180 views and only 11 votes? Since when is everyone on the net so unopionated?
Link Posted: 9/13/2007 5:03:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By JOHNNY223:
BTW -- whats the size in MOA of the TR21's triangle at lowest setting of 1.25x and its highest setting at 4x ?

J223...


11MOA at 1x 4moa at 4x. At least thats what I dug up in an archived thread.
Link Posted: 9/13/2007 5:14:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By EXCATM76:

Originally Posted By JOHNNY223:
BTW -- whats the size in MOA of the TR21's triangle at lowest setting of 1.25x and its highest setting at 4x ?

J223...


11MOA at 1x 4moa at 4x. At least thats what I dug up in an archived thread.


Thanks Brother.

J223...
Link Posted: 9/15/2007 6:17:16 AM EST
I like the 1-4 model myself
Link Posted: 9/15/2007 10:15:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By FMJ:
I like the 1-4 model myself


Yeah me too. I live in a urban setting. For me the EOTech has always suited my needs and still does. But now as I get older I'd like a sight that can be as close to true 1x (both eyes open) and still allow for good target ID at 4x to deliver precision hits. So range estimating and BDC are not needed for my "world". But obviously the $$ begin to play into this equation and for the money -- the TR21R offers what I need without killing the budget. I still would like to consider other brands like the "Euro" series from Burris (I hear they have a very close to 1x - 4) but a daylight visible reticle seems to be the main issue IMO.

J223..
Link Posted: 9/23/2007 2:00:53 PM EST
looking for more votes/ opinions gotta decide in the next week.
Link Posted: 9/24/2007 5:35:12 AM EST
I like the TA-33.

I was looking to pick one up for 3-gun shooting but was unable to find one to look through first. I wound up picking the TA-11.

I then shot at the RM3G and was squadded with a Trijicon rep that was shooting the TA-33. Shots from 3 yrds. out to 500 yrds. and the scope worked great. The shooter was handicapped on the longer shots because of an injured neck, he was unable to shoot from the prone position. He was hitting shots from seated beyond 400 yrds. using that scope. He seemed very pleased with it. No thick post to block your view on the 300+yrd targets.
Link Posted: 9/24/2007 8:41:26 AM EST
I'm on the verge of a ta-11 vs ta-33 decision too. 18" spr scope....

I think I'm going 11. but damn its pricey.
Link Posted: 9/24/2007 9:14:39 AM EST
You know, I have concluded that it doesnt matter what others likes and dislikes since your going to have to try it out and see for your self. You can see others opinions and some of them will match up with your thoughts. But you'll need to run some trial and error....

I've been thinking of a scope for my 20" Grendel for ever and just said "heck with it and orderd a USO SN3" I may or may not like it. I am sure it'll be a great optic but I will need to use it and see.

So buy one and try, if you dont like sell and get the other and so one
Link Posted: 9/24/2007 10:28:05 AM EST
I have a TR21R in a Larue mount. it is a great general purpose scope for the AR
the variable power makes it very flexible, at 1.25x it is fast - just put the triangle on target and shoot. at 4x you have a bit more precision. I have mine zeroed so bullet impact is exactly at the tip of the red triangle.
Link Posted: 9/24/2007 10:56:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By dcm223:
I have a TR21R in a Larue mount. it is a great general purpose scope for the AR
the variable power makes it very flexible, at 1.25x it is fast - just put the triangle on target and shoot. at 4x you have a bit more precision. I have mine zeroed so bullet impact is exactly at the tip of the red triangle.


big fan of the accupoints, but the larue mount pulls you into acog-f prices.
Link Posted: 9/24/2007 11:00:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2007 11:50:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
big fan of the accupoints, but the larue mount pulls you into acog-f prices.


Any more whining about pricing and the only AR stuff we'll be building will be HARLEY.





no, you misunderstand.

as we all are fond of saying: you're mounts are worth their weight in gold (and the UBR is worth its WAIT in gold - oh! zing!)

But that's the problem: your mount is REQUIRED for accupoint use. so I count it as part of the cost. It's mandatory.
Link Posted: 9/24/2007 2:24:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2007 2:31:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2007 2:33:35 PM EST by JoelK]

Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
big fan of the accupoints, but the larue mount pulls you into acog-f prices.


Any more whining about pricing and the only AR stuff we'll be building will be HARLEY.



Then you won't hear anyone asking for Flat Dark Earth, you can just make everything CHROME

And instead of giving away hats you can sell black logo T-shirts
Link Posted: 9/24/2007 2:34:36 PM EST
Out of those two I would do the Accupoint. The TA33 really doesn't do it for me, bought and sold it right away. I much prefer the TA31 but that is quite a bit more $$ than an Accupoint. And of course ether way, a LaRue mount is the only way to go. (I recommend buying direct from LaRue for the hat)

Link Posted: 9/24/2007 2:35:57 PM EST
Never had/tried an accupoint, but I love my TA33. Didn't vote since I don't know jack about the accupoint.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 4:16:33 PM EST
I'm buying one this week, last chance to throw in your .02.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 9:16:28 PM EST
"I have a TR21R in a Larue mount. it is a great general purpose scope for the AR
the variable power makes it very flexible, at 1.25x it is fast - just put the triangle on target and shoot. at 4x you have a bit more precision. I have mine zeroed so bullet impact is exactly at the tip of the red triangle."


This is the setup on my L.E.O. patrol AR and I love it....
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 3:38:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

no, you misunderstand.


But you did like that HARLEY comment?




I didn't get it

Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:05:43 AM EST
Vote for the Accupoint here. No fixed power optic is going to be as fast as a variable power one except for 1 x optics. I shoot with both eyes open and still find the magnified ACOGs to be slow up close.
Pat
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 11:04:04 AM EST
I hate ACOG's. Good choice.
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