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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/17/2005 12:56:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 4:16:12 PM EDT by niceguymr]
I just took my brand new TA11F mounted on my LE6920 flat top to the range today and am somewhat disappointed. I've always heard how accurate they are right out of the box, so I was expecting the same.

I had targets set up at 50 and 100 yards. I first took a shot at 100 yards thinking that it would do fine. I had a very steady aim and fire. I did not even hit the target, although I am certain the tip of the reticle was dead on center of the target. Then I decided to shoot at the target at 50 yards. I was able to get a very tight grouping (within 1"), but they all landed about 8 inches left of center and about 1" high. I decided to double check if the scope was correctly and securely mounted and it was. So I removed the adjustment cap cover and turned the adjustment screw in the same direction as the letter R was pointed (assuming that means it would place my shots more to the right). I turned it a few clicks and still my shots were way off to the left. Then I turned it at least an entire half turn and the shots were closer to the center, but still at least 3 or 4 inches away. Then a storm was drawing near and the horn went off signalling that everyone had to take cover (this is a public / county range) and we were all required to stop firing and go inside. The range closed before the storm finished passing over, so I was unable to work on it anymore.

Can anyone please help me understand WTF is going on? I'm pretty pissed off that I spent so much money on this thing and it's not living up to my expectations.

I would like to add that I have one of those piece-o-crap Leapers T168 scopes that was hitting dead on center bullseyes right out of the box and I'm pretty accurate just using the irons. Please help!
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 1:17:40 PM EDT
If you put a scope on a rifle it does not mean that it will be sighted in to your gun. That part you have to do yourself. That is what the adjustment dials are for. Maybe a bore sight would help you get on paper at 100yds then you can dial it in.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 1:31:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 1:33:52 PM EDT by jackal2001]
I just got back from the range about an hour ago, sighting in my TA31 I just got mounted. I to was shooting way off to the left, maybe about 4" or more. I had to turn at least 20 clicks to the right to get it pretty good. Now here is what I shot then at 100 yards.

Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:33:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 2:35:44 PM EDT by new-arguy]
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 3:04:41 PM EDT
I thinks you got one of them there POS ones. I will give you $50.00 to take it off your hands and soften the blow a little.

Give us an update when you get back out there and dial in some more clicks
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 3:17:46 PM EDT
This has to be a troll post. Noone is that stupid.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 3:20:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 3:20:42 PM EDT by mongo001]

Originally Posted By DevL:
This has to be a troll post. Noone is that stupid.



It is another "Range Report", just like the one referenced in his sig line.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 3:23:59 PM EDT

Not a troll. I have no experience with scopes other than my cheapo Leapers one, and my EOTech which was also perfectly zeroed out of the box. I didn't read the instructions, so I didn't really know that it may take so many clicks to get it zeroed in. I guess I just had false expectations. I'll get it zeroed in properly and provide an update. Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 4:38:01 AM EDT
When you purchase an accessory for your AR-15 that costs hundreds of dollars you really should read the directions before you do anything else. That said, scope sighting is a skill that can be simply a task to perform or elevated to a fine art. If you don't know what your doing, get help. There are plenty of qualified gunsmiths that offer scope sighting services.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 5:15:48 AM EDT


and my EOTech which was also perfectly zeroed out of the box.


Let's head for Vegas...you have got to be the luckiest man on the planet to have two optics come zeroed for your rifle right out of the box. We need to go before your luck runs out. I've never had a scope be on paper let alone zeroed right out of the box.


BTW - I could have sworn that my ACOG instructions (TA11) say 3 clicks = 1 inch @ 100...I'll have to re-read my booklet.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 6:03:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2005 10:06:00 AM EDT by new-arguy]
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 9:59:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Not a troll. I have no experience with scopes other than my cheapo Leapers one, and my EOTech which was also perfectly zeroed out of the box. I didn't read the instructions, so I didn't really know that it may take so many clicks to get it zeroed in. I guess I just had false expectations. I'll get it zeroed in properly and provide an update. Thanks guys.



No scope is perfectly zeroed out of the box.
Pat
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 11:45:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Glockfan:

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Not a troll. I have no experience with scopes other than my cheapo Leapers one, and my EOTech which was also perfectly zeroed out of the box. I didn't read the instructions, so I didn't really know that it may take so many clicks to get it zeroed in. I guess I just had false expectations. I'll get it zeroed in properly and provide an update. Thanks guys.



No scope is perfectly zeroed out of the box.
Pat



Maybe perfectly is slightly overstated. If you want to get technical, no scope is ever PERFECTLY zeroed.

My groups were hitting within 1" of the bullseye at 25 yards (I like to first try out my new toys at an indoor range before I take them out to the long range) with both the EOTech and the Leapers T168 right out of the box, and since those were the only scopes I ever had experience with, I was miffed when my TA11F didn't perform the same (out of the box). I'm not doubting AT ALL the quality fo the TA11F. As I stated previously, I guess I was just bummed because I wasn't able to get it zeroed on my first trip to the range with it... So consider it more of a disappointed rant. Thanks again for all your input and I'll be sure to post an update after my next trip to the range, and I'm sure the update will be very positive.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 4:31:48 PM EDT
WTF, OVER?!?
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 4:54:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
This has to be a troll post. Noone is that stupid.





Sad but true.

Link Posted: 9/18/2005 6:26:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By XM777:

Originally Posted By DevL:
This has to be a troll post. Noone is that stupid.





Sad but true.




lol. Guys... I know I've only been around a year or so but anybody who's seen me around knows I don't troll. I know how stupid I must appear to you guys, and I can appreciate the humor in it. Sometimes I read posts that I think are even more ridiculous than you think this one is. I've only been a rifle owner for a year, and am learning day by day. No need to insult me though and I'm not offended. I see this kind of hazing getting done to newbies all the time. Gimme a break though. I admitted I didn't read the instructions, and that I had unrealistic expectations. Can you guys just chill now until I get a chance to go the range again? Then, if I'm still making an ass of myself, then you should continue to enjoy yourselves at my expense.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 8:13:03 PM EDT
EOtechs are supposed to be pretty much on out of the box. My 512 was at 50 yards. I'd say you got very lucky with the Leaper though.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:18:42 AM EDT
I'll trade you a new in box Leapers scope for that piece of crap ACOG you have.....
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:26:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 7:27:02 AM EDT by bjwar10]

EOtechs are supposed to be pretty much on out of the box. My 512 was at 50 yards. I'd say you got very lucky with the Leaper though.



What if I had purchased your 512 and installed it on an M1A and zeroed it for 100 yards? How can anyone possibly think that any optic is "pre-zeroed" at the factory? The "factory" has no way of knowing what kind of rifle that optic will be put on, what caliber the rifle will be, how that rifle will shoot...it is nothing more than blind luck to get a scope of any price range that is even on paper from the factory.

Please let this madness stop.

OUT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:31:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 8:39:03 AM EDT
My BSA scope was dead on (sub MOA) on my Daisy Red Rider at 5 feet!!

Famous quote: "Even a broken clock is right twice a day."

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 3:35:37 PM EDT
What sitting position where you in? when siting in, go prone or use the bench, then zero it with the help of a spotting scope.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:51:30 PM EDT
I jump up and down if an optic puts me on paper at 50 yards. Almost never does and I dont use junk either.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:39:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By XM777:

Originally Posted By DevL:
This has to be a troll post. Noone is that stupid.





Sad but true.



Don't be pricks...the guy screwed up and didn't read the instructions: big freakin' deal.

I suppose the two of you slid from the womb already filled to the brim with firearms knowledge?

Mr. Nice Guy,

I hope you get your optic dialed in. Best of luck.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:29:40 PM EDT
The guy wrote a post complaining about his scope because he had to sight it in. I realised this was necessary at the age of 5. I dont see how figuring everyone knows you have to sight in an optic and this must be a troll post makes me a prick.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 7:54:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:18:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bjwar10:

EOtechs are supposed to be pretty much on out of the box. My 512 was at 50 yards. I'd say you got very lucky with the Leaper though.



What if I had purchased your 512 and installed it on an M1A and zeroed it for 100 yards? How can anyone possibly think that any optic is "pre-zeroed" at the factory? The "factory" has no way of knowing what kind of rifle that optic will be put on, what caliber the rifle will be, how that rifle will shoot...it is nothing more than blind luck to get a scope of any price range that is even on paper from the factory.

Please let this madness stop.

OUT



I guess I should elaborate on what I meant. Jeez, can't you guys read minds? I'm pretty sure that I've read, probably here somewhere, that the EOtech is set up from the factory for a flattop AR15. Now, it's easy for me to relate to this because this is what the MRS(Muzzle Reference Sensor) on an M1 Abrams did (does still?) way back when. You used to boresight an M1 by moving a lever on the GPS which would swing a refracting type of lens into the optic path. This let you view the permanent MRS "crosshair" in the gunner's sight. You would then use toggle type switches to align your reticle onto the MRS crosshair. And if I can remember correctly, there was a way to zero out your reticle when a new MRS was mounted.

I am willing to bet that if you take apart an EOtech you'd find that your windage and elevation are essentially potentiometers that move the holographic reticle. If they took a flattop AR and used a laser boresighter at 25 or 50 yards, they'd probably find that for a given value of resistance on each pot that it would be aligned. Therefore it would be possible to have it leave the factory set for these values and at least on one type of rifle it would be pretty close. You are absolutely right about putting it on an M1A. It's exactly why (IMO) the collimator type of boresights are kind of worthless. How could your possibly use the same collimator when you'll have all types of ring/base/scope heights?

Again, I would agree about it being pure luck to ever mount any scope and have it be on. I would think you would agree though that if we're talking about a mechanical type of adjustment in a scope they may be able to accomplish the same thing, but they're probably not willing to try. Why would a manufacturer bother to say if you buy our model "Z" scope and use our "Y" base with our medium height rings on a Rem 700 SA with a muzzle velocity of 2,900 FPS +or- 50FPS you'll be on the paper at "%" yards? They're not making any more money saving you on the cost of ammunition. Average Joe comes out to my range only on the 4 or 5 weekends before the deer season starts and blasts a box or two off while adjusting his scope all around. When he's done, he can't understand why he missed with the first shot out of that cold barrel.

It would be a lot easier in the manufacture of the sight if it has electronic adjustments to do so. I would also speculate if EOtech tries to do this because so many go directly to the sandbox now and you could theoretically put it on and go do CQB without sight in. Not very wise, but it could be done. As I said I think I've heard this, but if you want to cut costs, why bother paying the labor to perform this step?

I had mounted my EOtech and when I got to the range pulled my upper off, sandbagged on the bench, and boresighted through the barrel to the target. I knew it would be about centered on the paper and it was. But I can pull the bolt on a bolt action on sandbags and do the same thing with whatever brand of scope. Save a lot of ammo that way.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:30:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 4:32:13 PM EDT by niceguymr]
Since I made an ass of myself in the beginning of the thread, I owe it to everyone to provide an updated range report.

I will start by saying that I've almost got it dialed in perfectly. Once again though, I'll admit still not having opened up the instructions just b/c I hate reading instructions for things that SEEM to be pretty easy to use. Additionally, my range time was once again snarled by bad weather and I only got to shoot a couple of magazines worth of ammo. I'm sure that some of you would say that's plenty of ammo to get a rifle zeroed in, but I guess I'm just learning the hard way.

By the time the range closed due to bad weather, I was shooting pretty tight groups (I'd say 1 to 2") at 100 yards. I was hitting center line, but about 2" - 3" high. I realize that I just have to turn it down a couple of clicks. To be honest with you, I'm not even counting the clicks though. While trying to get it centered, I just kept adjusting the dial left and right until I finally got it perfectly. Hopefully, 1 or 2 more adjustments on the vertical and I'll have it right. The way I've been doing it... I take 5 shots at one point of aim, I look through my range scope, make adjustments accordingly, then take 5 more shots. I'm sure I'll have it absolutely as close to perfect as I can be by the next trip to the range.

I feel very abnormal having to take so long to get this thin 100% right, but my progress has been strongly hindered by the weather and the fact that my range is in a county park that ceases all range activity when lightning is within 10 miles of the park. Unfortunately, I'd have to travel much farther for a better outdoor range and I really don't feel like making that long a drive.

ETA: I'm shooting Lake City M855PD from ammoman.
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