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Posted: 10/1/2005 5:45:38 PM EDT
Why do you do it?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:49:58 PM EDT
Stability, less rattle, in some cases better cheek and or shoulder weld. A lot of entry guys I know run fixed stocks on their entry carbines. (Usually not A2 stocks, but more often then not, A1 stocks, M16 stocks, or "stubby" stocks like the Sully.) A lot of the local MP5s are setup with fixed stocks too.

I've tried an M16 stock on my lightweight and I really like it. I may eventually just leave it on there.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:15:13 PM EDT
How about some pics?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:27:23 PM EDT
the trap door for spare parts or a cleaning kit
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:36:06 PM EDT
Lancelot, what's this M16 stock you're referring to? I'm only aware of A2, A1, and collapsables. Sounds interesting.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:39:07 PM EDT
m16 stocks have a real sling swivel in the rear, a solid rubber butt/no trap door. they are the same length as the A1.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 8:57:43 PM EDT
Maybe they don't see a need for a collapsible stock? Just because the barrel's less than 20" doesn't make a collapsible stock mandatory.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 8:58:38 PM EDT
Cause I want to.

Ain't America great?

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 9:05:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
Why do you do it?



Because anything less then 13" LOP is
too short for me . I don't wear body armor ,
so whats the point of having an adjustable
stock that you never run less then fully open ?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:16:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
How about some pics?




I do not like "CAR" stock, wiggle, poor cheek...

Carbine enough?

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:56:32 AM EDT
You must admit that does look a little weird.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:08:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 7:46:44 AM EDT by Lancelot]
Here are some pictures of my lightweight with the M16 stock in place. As stated it is the same length as the A1, but without the trap door, it is solid, and the different rear sling loop. You can get the "early" stocks off of Ebay occasionally, and from Northridge in California.













ETA

I modeled it after this one I found in a military archieve someplace...........







Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:15:20 AM EDT
Yes that looks good!

Having longer barrel, an A1 upper and A1 length buttstock helps the asthetics.

Looks: superficial yes, but we all do it in some manner or other.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 6:13:08 AM EDT
They do it because they are too cheap to buy a Magpul and too lazy to make sure the cleaning kit is in their pack.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:48:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
They do it because they are too cheap to buy a Magpul and too lazy to make sure the cleaning kit is in their pack.





I just popped for a M93B... should be here today. (and yes I'm cheap) The M93 will go on a different rifle.

Back on topic... function over form. If you shoot the rifle better with the fixed stock, used it. Who cares what it looks like.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:31:48 PM EDT
Cuz the ban is 4ever in NY. Unless of course you own a "Pre-94"....

I just replaced my A2 with an SP1 stock. I like it a lot better.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:21:59 PM EDT
My former pre-ban Colt Lightweight carbine came with a A1 length A2 style stock (rare now) and that was my favorite.

The features I like about solid stock are solid cheek weld and rattle free. I even converted my former HK 94 with collapsible stock with the MP5 solid stock for better cheek weld.

I now have A2 stock on a A2 rifle, LMT M4 stock and two Vltors, club foot and CAR modstock. I might build a lightweight with a solid stock on my future project and use it for plinking.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:45:54 PM EDT
My reasons: the full length stock is inexpensive. It gives a good cheek weld. The rifle buffer is about as heavy as a 9mm carbine buffer, tending to mitigate against dropped extraction problems with shorties. It also keeps the ROF down.

At shoots I really only need a stock that's comfortable and will work with various complete uppers ranging from 11.5s to LMGs. I don't really want to change stocks/buffers, etc. at a shoot just for the sake of aesthetics. I'm more accurate with the full length stock, too. I'm comparing it to the standard CAR stock, and realize that collapsibles have come a long way. But I still can't justify the expenditure of the latest/greatest. I'd rather save and buy another transferrable item.

Sam
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 5:07:26 PM EDT
If someone made a fixed stock that has the same LOP as the position where I place my 6 pos, I'd buy it. FYI, second click open.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 5:18:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 5:25:12 PM EDT by Combat_Jack]
I ike he shorter stock because I shoot using the square HK stance, but I hear ya on the cheek weld/no rattle issue. I like the VLTORs and SOPMODs too. My favorite is the M93 though.

Also, you get the longer buffer with an A1.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 5:23:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bullseye_Doc_Holiday:
Lancelot, what's this M16 stock you're referring to? I'm only aware of A2, A1, and collapsables. Sounds interesting.



There are several variations of A1 stock. The old style is of a lighter, more brittle plastic and has a movable sling swivel. Later ones made by Colt (rare) are of the same material as A2 stocks and are tougher. They also have a fixed swivel. Then there is the Cavalry Arms C1. Its like the late model Colt and is very light.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 9:17:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Bullseye_Doc_Holiday:
Lancelot, what's this M16 stock you're referring to? I'm only aware of A2, A1, and collapsables. Sounds interesting.



There are several variations of A1 stock. The old style is of a lighter, more brittle plastic and has a movable sling swivel. Later ones made by Colt (rare) are of the same material as A2 stocks and are tougher. They also have a fixed swivel. Then there is the Cavalry Arms C1. Its like the late model Colt and is very light.



Owning both I can tell you the CavArms C1 Stock is nothing like the Colt CS stock (which is their A1 length stock built like an A2). The only thing they have in common is their length.

As far as why? Well collapsible stocks are fun in an evil sort of way and they have their purposes (CQB and\or when wearing body armor, etc.) but for obtaining the best cheek weld, pure shooting enjoyment and comfort, nothing beats a good fixed stock. They are also more solid and less prone to breakage and they allow you to use a rifle length buffer\buffer tube and spring, which is what the AR was designed to use plus provide you with softer recoil.

If you are not wearing body armor or such and can get past the "cool"ness factor, I think most people would enjoy shooting a fixed stock more.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 4:13:06 PM EDT
This doesnt have to do with carbines but...

Switching from an A2 to an A1 stock makes a world of difference! It's amazing what 5/8th of an inch can do! If I ever build up a carbine...its getting an A1 stock. It's the perfect length for me.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 4:48:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
Why do you do it?



Why not?

A good solid A1 stock is a great option. It's simple, solid as a rock, and stone reliable.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 8:26:39 PM EDT
I must admit that I went nuts and after the AWB sunset I put telestocks on all three of my ARs. If I wasn't in California I'd buy another AR just to put the Cav A-1 buttstock sitting in my parts box to good use...
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 9:32:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RRA-A2:
This doesnt have to do with carbines but...

It's amazing what 5/8th of an inch can do! . It's the perfect length for me.



OK lets try to stay on topic!!!!! LOL I have an old M16 stock lying here with no buffer or spring you could have for 5 bucks. Let me know if you need one to expirement with.
Man I'm a jackass
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:19:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MisterPX:
If someone made a fixed stock that has the same LOP as the position where I place my 6 pos, I'd buy it. FYI, second click open.



Sully I believe has this LOP with their thin buttplate attached. If not, it's within one notch of what you describe.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:43:07 PM EDT
Sully stock is one notch too small, and that one notch makes a world of difference.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 7:26:02 PM EDT
I have the Sully stock and like it with the THICK end plate instead of the thin endplate. It extends it out about another inch and is about an inch shorter than my A1 stock. I checked it against a RRA 6 pos stock and it is roughly the same length as pos #3.


DT
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 7:39:59 PM EDT
Shoot what you like. This isn't a fashion show.
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