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Posted: 1/4/2003 5:24:25 PM EST
Reading the locked thread below has me wondering, Were there any 80% Lowers available before the ban?
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 6:17:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/4/2003 10:41:24 PM EST by Bud_Burma]
garr...Yes. Between 1986-87 I poured (60) of them. They are all date coded & most had a bill of sale. I know that at least (2) were registered onna Form 1. (12) went to a theater company and are still being used as blank firing prop rifles. The remainder is an unknown. If you saw one you'd recognize it...no selector stops, no fences & a raised "1986" on the fore of the mag chute. The mold popped on the 60th casting & I have not attempted to make another mold. I met Snelling in 1993-94 & since then...I haven't had any need to pour my own. There were castings available through manufacturers as well. I don't believe that a preban casting counts the same as a finished lower...that is, if you bought it in 1986 but didn't work it into a lower until 1995...you got yourself a postban rifle. Somebody(s) might not agree with that & that may be because they don't like the answer. It would be a good question for the BATF Tech folks...in the end, it'll be what they say that counts...Bud #############################################­## Thank you DevilsAdvocate...that was well put...Bud
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 6:32:01 PM EST
They would accept it as pre-ban if it were registered before the 1994 ban. Anything after that, no matter what, will be considered a post ban. POSTBAN even if it was made into a complete rifle before the ban, but never registered.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 7:04:12 PM EST
Registered? Must be some city or state thing where you live, because there's no federal gun registration except for machineguns.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 10:39:44 PM EST
Circuits...O yaa shoore yoo betchya, eh...amend "registered AR15 rcv'r onna form 1 with the BATF" to..."I filed a Form 1 on my home built AR15 lower, now it is "One'd"...or maybe itz "Formed"...howzzat? hardeeharharhar. I get my trucks registered and heck...they're not on the NFA list. The term registered is not proprietary to Class 3. Maybe ya can offer-up a better term...if so, let'r rip. Thx...Bud
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 10:45:49 PM EST
What is a form 1 for?
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 11:21:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bud_Burma: Circuits...O yaa shoore yoo betchya, eh...amend "registered AR15 rcv'r onna form 1 with the BATF" to..."I filed a Form 1 on my home built AR15 lower, now it is "One'd"...or maybe itz "Formed"...howzzat? hardeeharharhar. I get my trucks registered and heck...they're not on the NFA list. The term registered is not proprietary to Class 3. Maybe ya can offer-up a better term...if so, let'r rip. Thx...Bud
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And why or how would you "Form 1" a semi AR-15 you built? You know better bud. People seem to persist in thinking that homebuilt firearms, or firearms in general must be "registered" and that's not the case in the vast majority of jurisdictions or cases, especially for long guns, as opposed to handguns. You care to share with me what your non-machinegun "registering" consists of?
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 11:13:01 AM EST
Fine, a rephrase... If you build a semi and sell it through an FFL, it is registered. Dont give me any of this bullshit that a 4473 isnt registration, because it is, no matter what the Fed says. Now, what Im saying, is that if you "all of a sudden" bring-out a non-serialised receiver that has never been on any paper (which would confirm a date of manufacture) you are screwed and it WILL be considered post-ban, no matter if it really was pre-ban, because you have absolutely no way of proving pre-ban status. Sure, a private citizen (non FFL) can legally make a semiauto receiver, but unless it was documented via a serial number and sold before the ban, it will always be a post ban. You could have built it yesterday and stamped a date of "1993" on it for all they know.
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 5:41:08 PM EST
I would tend to agree with DevilsAdvocate....why take a chance with a homebuilt, especially if you knew when it was completed??......and if you did, you knowingly are mfg. an [b]illegal[/b] firearm....
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 7:17:11 PM EST
How is a rifle built on an 80% lower automatically a post-ban ? If you made it into a rifle before the ban then would it not be preban ? If you ever got busted for it it'd be your word vs theirs and you are innocent till provend guilty.
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 8:21:28 PM EST
(I am not trying to offend anyone so please be merciful) I know all the 5 allowable evil features stuff I was wondering what the rules are {regarding ar-15s} on the 1994 ban (I vaugely recall an itemized list of banned guns [by manufacturer] are homebuilt Ar-15's covered on the list or is this of no concequence?)
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 8:24:24 PM EST
no serial number to confirm date means you have no proof that it's a preban. It's a postban unless proven otherwise. proven guilty, as easy as that.
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 8:52:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan: How is a rifle built on an 80% lower automatically a post-ban ? If you made it into a rifle before the ban then would it not be preban ? [red]YES, But can you prove it without having it registered somewhere?[/red] If you ever got busted for it it'd be your word vs theirs and you are innocent till provend guilty.[red]Nobody is innocent until proven guilty anymore. Where you been?[/red]
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If this was the case, and it definitely isnt, everyone and their brother would be building 80% slugs and saying that they made them before the ban. ATF isnt [red]THAT[/red] stupid!
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 9:07:51 PM EST
If you built an AW before the ban, it is legal. Everything else is ATF's [i]opinion[/i], or yours.
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 11:12:55 AM EST
Gentlemen...Let's stick with what garr posted to kick-off this string. So....who else knows of any % complete lowers available before the 1994 ban? I'll start a new string over on the legal board to address some of the udder topics that came-up...like Form 1 vs Title 1 & others. I just finished a pow-wow with the Technology branch & man-o-man was I ever wrong...yikes. All Good...Bud
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