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Posted: 11/19/2009 4:25:02 PM EDT
I'm looking at rifles that can legally be used in iowa for deer hunting. 7.62x39 is one of the rounds that is allowed. There alot cheaper to build and shoot then 308s uppers.
Link Posted: 11/19/2009 6:24:23 PM EDT
My neighbor has taken a couple of deer with the 7.62 x 39.  Compared to the 308 Win, they drop like a stone, but if you are hunting shorter range it will not matter.
Link Posted: 11/19/2009 6:46:58 PM EDT
Whats the range of 7.62x39 in a Ar 15 is it still only around 200-300m
Link Posted: 11/19/2009 7:24:05 PM EDT
It depends on the ammo.  Factory loads 200yds tops. Quality handloads firing a top notch bullet 300yds. I've killed deer out to 278yds with my x39
Link Posted: 11/19/2009 8:28:24 PM EDT
is there any loads i can buy for hunting
Link Posted: 11/19/2009 8:31:48 PM EDT
Lots!  Win, rem, fed, wolf, barnual, S&B, cor/bon to name a few
Link Posted: 11/19/2009 8:46:03 PM EDT
Lots!  Win, rem, fed, wolf, barnual, S&B, cor/bon to name a few
Link Posted: 11/19/2009 8:47:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2009 9:37:55 PM EDT by keenshooter]
For plinking can you  use lacquer ammo, I didn't think you could because the m16/m4 ar 15 gas system. What ammo do you use to plink around with?  

Edited sorry Long day :)
Link Posted: 11/19/2009 9:18:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By keenshooter:
For blinking u cant use lather ammo can you cause of the gas system right, so what do you uses?


¿QUE?
Link Posted: 11/19/2009 9:40:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2009 9:46:49 PM EDT by Krochus]
I shot ammo of all sorts through mine including lacuer coated. My personal fav was barnual/monarch from academy
Link Posted: 11/20/2009 2:39:14 AM EDT
That doesn't effect the gas system at all? i remember hearing that it did, and steel cartridge ammo, our the uppers different from the 5.56?
Link Posted: 11/20/2009 6:02:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By keenshooter:
That doesn't effect the gas system at all? i remember hearing that it did, and steel cartridge ammo, our the uppers different from the 5.56?


pure myth: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm
Link Posted: 11/20/2009 11:12:58 AM EDT
Several years back I had access to a hell of a Ranch, full of deer and elk. In payment for my access I occasionally took out other hunters, to keep them honest, make sure they did it all right, etc.  I took out a guy wiith the same Colt Sporter I have in 7.62x39 loaded with red/white box Federal softpoints.   He popped two big muley does at 60-80 yds, both in the heart/lung area and they both dropped quickly.  The damage was similar to a .30-30 IMHO.

 A shot to the heart/lung area with a standard softpoint will work fine. It's ALL about placement.

FN in MT
Link Posted: 11/20/2009 5:44:57 PM EDT
They are like a 30-30. If you don't reload with it's hard to get a round with  a real good bullet.. Graft $ Sons has a steel case round with 123gr Hornady V - Max  bullet. That give good hitting power to 300/350 yards. That's IMHO.

Mike
Link Posted: 11/20/2009 7:07:37 PM EDT
Model One Uppers for 7.62x39 a go or no go?
Link Posted: 11/22/2009 4:48:48 AM EDT
Check earlier 7.62x39 thread or go to the Hog forum and you can see what mine did with a Wolf Military Classic 124gr HP
Link Posted: 11/22/2009 5:58:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2009 6:31:22 AM EDT by eracer]


I would have had no problem keeping my Colt 7.62x39 for deer hunting - since all it would reliably function with was 10-round mags. But I wanted an AR that was reliable with 30-round mags, and that wasn't. Nor will any regular AR be.



So, if all you want to use is 5 rounds in a 10-round mag, have at it.
Link Posted: 11/22/2009 6:24:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2009 6:24:56 AM EDT by MMcfpd]
Originally Posted By keenshooter:
Model One Uppers for 7.62x39 a go or no go?



Lots of people use Model 1 7.62x39 uppers - I've had two and I have no complaints. I am, though, using an LMT bolt in the second one.
Link Posted: 11/22/2009 7:39:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By keenshooter:
I'm looking at rifles that can legally be used in iowa for deer hunting. 7.62x39 is one of the rounds that is allowed. There alot cheaper to build and shoot then 308s uppers.


Would a 6.8 work for ya.  That will probably be my next build to use on white tail, and maybe some hogs, if I can find them.
I have an AR-10 chambered in 308, but I like the idea of the smaller lighter Ar-15 platform.
Link Posted: 11/24/2009 11:32:02 PM EDT
The Idea is to have a rifle that keeps my muscle memory up, and is cheaper to shoot then my 5.56 and to keep me up for when I have to qualify. I jsut need it to go to around 300 meters and , be able to kill a deer.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 9:32:58 AM EDT
Performance wise its a 30-30. I have shot several whitetails with this round in a sks in Tenessee and never got an exit wound. The gun wont be cheap either. If it were me, I would buy whatever 308 bolt gun you could afford and have a solid, accurate, fairly flat shooting, sufficiently powerful deer rifle and scope that will let you get a good blood trail. How much muscle memory do you need to put the rifle on fire, take a good sight picture, and squeeze off?
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 11:35:40 AM EDT
650 what the build is going to cost.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:07:04 PM EDT
As far as blood trails with this round! It's all about bull choice. For hunting stay away from your ballistic tip or fragmenting ammo. You want full penetration ammo. Good quality soft points or barnes bullet something with weight retintion. And heavier bullet weights. Corbon makes some good loads.
Link Posted: 11/27/2009 10:21:23 AM EDT
Shot my first deer with an AK47. Deer turned away right as I fired. SP round went into left hip and destroyed all the meat on the left side of the body. Broke most of the ribs on the left side. Penetration went from left hip to just inside the front of the chest cavity. Permanent wound cavity was about 3" in diameter.

I'm building a 7.62x39 AR and plan to multicam the entire gun for something different.
Link Posted: 11/27/2009 4:44:07 PM EDT
I huntied with one a couple of years ago for an entire season.
It works.
Hunted with 110 gr vmax handloads, neck shot on one.
Also hunted with 154 gr wolf which was terrible. No expansion at all.
Just went through like a drill, but I still got 2 deer with it, both good shots.

Load up or buy some premium ammo s mentioned above.

Barnes just ame out with 108 gr bullets in .311 which is what I would load for everything.

A bit weak IMO but works for whitetails and about like a 30-30 as mentioned above.

Personally I would prefer a 6.8 spc over a 7.62x39, but inside 150 yards performance on game should
be about equal with premium ammo..

Link Posted: 11/27/2009 6:36:59 PM EDT
Well I thought about that its just alot cheaper to plink with 7.62x39
Link Posted: 11/29/2009 5:42:10 PM EDT
I got mine about 2 1/2 years ago because of cheap ammo.  I have some 20rd and 30rd Frankenmags and they do work.  I like the Wolf Mitary Classic 124gr HP.  I have not shot a deer with it but it will drop a big hog in its track, so it should have no problem with a deer.  Inside 200yds it has a lot of knock down power.  Past 200yds I like to carry my AP4 308.  The 763x39 is a lot lighter to carry.  I have some AR 223s and AP4 308 and some bolt guns, but carry the 762x39 the most of all.
Link Posted: 11/29/2009 6:42:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2009 6:46:48 PM EDT by dpms-headshot]
I killed a doe and 4ptr last saturday with my 7.62x39 build. its a 16" J & T  barrel, flat top with bushnell 3x9-40 scope, 4 pos stock, rifle length hogue ff forearm and grip, built on a dmps lower. i was using 124 gr wolf hp and poped the doe at 125 yds in chest as she was facing me and she ran about 30 yards and laid down. the 4ptr took off across the field and i caught him on the run at about 150 yds in the back.  i really like the 762x39 round for deer hunting. i shot a big 9ptr last year with my 223 and i had to track him 150 yds + thru a thicket with a 42gr white box hp. even though i had placed a perfect shot on him, i still had to track him a long ways. i vowed that would not happen again. it got the job done, but it sucks to drag a 180 lb buck thru the thicket. so i built a 762x39 deer rifle.  the only thing that i can complain about is the fact that it seems to jam when i shoot hp's thru it. it would be better if it had the m4 feed ramps. it seems that the flat nose of the hp catches on the lip of the standard feed ramp using the new model c prod 30 rd mags. it seems more reliable using a steel 20 rd USGI mag and only putting 5 rds in it.


http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs005.snc3/11255_1270146948114_1063069335_827586_2982028_n.jpg
Link Posted: 11/30/2009 6:34:52 AM EDT
I have a J&T 16" 7.62x39.  Also had problems with HP and SP ammo but dremeled ramps in the lower.  It is now 100% GTG with HP and SP ammo and 30 round Cproducts mags.
Link Posted: 11/30/2009 3:26:03 PM EDT
Interested in what you did to the lower.  Just got a M1Sales 7.62x39
Link Posted: 11/30/2009 5:30:04 PM EDT



Originally Posted By MSUdawg:


I have a J&T 16" 7.62x39.  Also had problems with HP and SP ammo but dremeled ramps in the lower.  It is now 100% GTG with HP and SP ammo and 30 round Cproducts mags.


I did the same thing with my model 1 upper and its ran flawlessly since.



 
Link Posted: 11/30/2009 5:40:32 PM EDT
The dremmel is your friend, ((Don't be afraid, just use it)) Mine may look like M8 ramps, but it runs 100%.  The way the AR bolt hits the case high and with the taper that the 762x39 case has, it seems to nose dive a little.
Link Posted: 11/30/2009 6:02:47 PM EDT
When trying to run Blue Star Mag Tips, initially thought the soft tips were catching the feed ramps causing FTFs although soon realized three other makes of ammo were doing the same thing (all FMJs). Testing points to short stroking, so yes mee too, like to see some pix of what was done to that lower to get it to start eating those HPs.
Link Posted: 11/30/2009 8:35:56 PM EDT
i dont know how to demill how do you do that
Link Posted: 11/30/2009 9:36:29 PM EDT



Originally Posted By keenshooter:


i dont know how to demill how do you do that


I didnt use a demil I used some very fine files and just continued the feed ramp into the upper receiver an matched up the angle of the ramp to the upper receiver. Much the same way a true m4 upper receiver has the  extinctions for the m4 ramps on the barrel extension.



 
Link Posted: 11/30/2009 9:38:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2009 9:43:29 PM EDT by 03cobra]

Originally Posted By 03cobra:
Originally Posted By keenshooter:




i dont know how to demill how do you do that





I didnt use a demil I used some very fine files and just continued the feed ramp into the upper receiver an matched up the angle of the ramp to the upper receiver. Much the same way a true m4 upper receiver has the  extinctions for the m4 ramps on the barrel extension.




 
Here is some pictures that might help that I found. U see we have the rifle extinctions so you have to just do the extinction in the upper receiver your self just match the angle of whats already there with the feed ramps just try to make them continue into the upper receiver.


M4 Feedramps



Here
is another fun debate... Rather than take sides, I will try to do the
Fox News "you decide" sort of thing. And now, for your viewing
pleasure, the M4 Feed Ramp.
So what are they? Well, all ARs have feedramps cut in the barrel
extension... the bottom two lug cuts in the barrel extension are
widened and ramped to guide the round into the chamber during loading.
So what is different about the M4 ramps? Well, on a regular AR
type platform, the ramps are cut into the barrel extension only –– the
M4 style ramps are cut so that the cut "breaks through" the barrel
extension and cuts slightly into the upper receiver. To be honest, an
M4 feedramp is really a two piece arrangement... part of it is in the
barrel extension and part is in the upper receiver.
Here is a great picture that shows the difference, shamelessly stolen from bigbore (thanks Steve).

As you can see, the feed ramps on the regular rifle barrel are cut just
to the edge of the barrel extension... but do not extend beyond that
edge; while the M4 ramps continue slightly "outside" of the barrel
extension.
As stated, the rest of a properly cut M4 feedramp is in the upper
receiver... while the cut in the receiver is small, it matches up with
the cut in the barrel extension and makes for a smooth, continuous ramp.

So why are they there? Ughhhh... here are both sides, the extremes at that:
1. "M4 feedramps serve no purpose at all, they are nothing more than an
attempt by Colt to get a patent continuation based on redesign."
2. "M4 feedramps are the greatest thing since canned beer... in order
to have a reliable rifle, you must have them. It is a miracle that the
platform has functioned this long without them."
Here are some of the facts that lie between those two arguments. With the proliferation of the the carbine gas system,
there did come some unique problems –– it is believed that with the M4,
there are times when a cartridge being loaded is more "tip down" than
normal, and that the bullet tip could strike the flat surface of the
upper receiver, just below the standard rifle feedramp.
So, the ramps were extended down slightly, in order to catch these.
There is a suggestion that the use of heavier bullets also exacerbates
any potential problem... this idea seems to have some weight (get it)
–– and of course the use of soft or open tip ammunition can help make
things snag.
So... Do I need them? Being married has taught me that there are
varying degrees of need. The honest answer would be that unless you
have a select fire carbine... no, you can get by fine without them.
Truth is, everyone that really "needs" them has been given a rifle that
has them... I certainly would not run out and replace an upper, just
because it does not have M4 feedramps. Note: With the increased use of
larger diameter cased cartridges (6.8 SPC, etc), the M4 feed ramps are
proving to be of value when using these cartridges... the magazine lips
can not move, so with these larger diameter cartridges, the tip of the
bullet sits lower in relation to the centerline of the bore (half of
the diameter increase to be exact) –– this puts the cartridge in a
position where feeding is improved by the extended feed ramp.
Okay, but do I want them? Well, sure, why not. As they are
becoming more and more the standard and they certainly do not do any
harm –– why not look for them on your next purchase. Again, I wouldn't
consider them a deal breaker and would not pass up a good deal on an
upper only because it did not have them. Our military is doing just
fine with a whole lot of rifles that do not have them...
And all of this is in a perfect world. Feed problems can be caused by
several things... the fact that magazine quality is all over the map is
most often the first suspect and there is more than one lower receiver
in the wild that has an out of spec mag well.
My gun has an M4 barrel, but it looks like someone cut the ramps in the upper receiver with a dremel tool!
That is most likely exactly what happened. There are a lot of uppers
out there that do not have the cuts... hand cutting the upper receiver
with a dremel is a quick way to make the conversion.
Granted, it may not look so great, but odds are (if they are actually
doing anything) they will work fine. The most obvious fault with this
method is that the cuts are not refinished and you see bare aluminum ––
while there may be some surface hardness that is not there... you will
wear out a lot of other things on the gun before you have to worry
about any problems with "wearing" on the hand cut ramps.
If you are the kind of person that lays awake at night and obsesses
over the dire thought that your feedramps were not refinished... well,
hit one of the dealers on the site up for a new upper so you can relax.





Can I run a M4 barrel in a regular upper receiver? Sure, there seems to be no issues with this... or you could just dremel in the receiver cuts.




Can I use a regular barrel in an upper receiver with M4 cuts? I
don't recommend it... there is a chance that the round can jam on the
little "lip" that is caused by the barrel extension extending into the
cut; however, there are guns out there that have this setup and work
fine –– this tends to go towards the thought that the ramps really do
very little? Again, it is not a setup that I would feel all warm and
fuzzy about. Here is why...

 
Link Posted: 12/15/2009 11:08:14 AM EDT
great write up, this is something that goes unnoticed all the time during assembly and/or purchasing parts to build an AR.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 5:20:47 PM EDT
this thread has helped me a lot
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 3:28:50 AM EDT
I have also used a file and deburred the inside of the front of the mags.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 12:01:15 PM EDT
The ar15 platform is not considered optimal in terms of reliability for the russian service round. If you can find one that works reliably, good on you. Also, the round leaves a lot to be desired in terms of terminal performance, as its performance is on par with a 30 30 win. I have shot a few deer with a old sks years ago in Tn, at ranges from 35-100 yards, using winchester soft point rounds. In every case that the deer was shot in the normal point of aim (behind the shoulder) the bullet never exited, so I never got a decent blood trail. Maybe there are better rounds out there, I dont know. Since then I have been exclusively using a wally world rem 700 in 243 and it has performed perfectly.
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