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Posted: 3/13/2011 4:49:04 PM EST




As civilians were receiving surplus SKS/ AK's in the early 1980's, American ammunition companies had to try and keep up with the demand for the 7.62x39mm. Generally used for plinking or target practice at first, the cartridge was really no stronger than the .30 carbine. Held true to Soviet standards, it was only loaded to half pressures, leaving plenty of room for improvement, although females and children apperciate the light recoil. Most military ammo was made of steel cases and are non reloadable. With brass reloadable cases and newer gun powders, this cartridge could go beyond varmit/ medium game, to larger ones like deer. Ruger chambered the Mini-30 in '87, and the M77 Mark 2 in '91 for the 7.62x39mm. Sako and a few others followed after that. Now, most American ammo manufactures offer this round in soft point bullets and non corrosive primers.
The # 4 black over green tip is a 194gr subsonic bullet for the PBS AKM silencer from 1965. This was a weapon that was based upon the sks action for fairly long range shots. Its missing 8gr powder charge. It was done away with after the Chinese bought a large amount of US silenced weapons on the black market in late '65. wolfgang

#87 Horniday V-Max (russian cases?)–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––#65 Winchester soft point
#42 Winchester ball–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––#4 Subsonic 711/78 black/ green tip steel core
#41 Bell military contract MMD––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––#48 reformed from 7.62x45 by TCCI for US gov. BXN/54
#59 No headstamp, made from a 7.62x51 tracer cup––––––––––––––––––––––-#2 Frankfort Arsenal (no headstamp) type 4 prototype blank
#64 FC military contract overrun––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-#KG1 R-P (Remington) tracer orange tip, gunshow?
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:07:46 AM EST
Noticed something about #KG1. The shoulder has a step in it. Brass ammo fired in my Saiga will make that step, so I found it curious to see a loaded round with it still intact.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 3:07:23 PM EST
That one is a reload,but not sure if its a T46 tracer for a 39mm, or a orange tipped .308 tracer! wolf
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:24:44 PM EST
That is a 7.62x51mm M-62 tracer projectile.

Odd that the Saiga neck did not get removed during resizing...

The Soviet type "US" subsonic ball cartridge you mentioned was in production for much longer than 1965, and was intended for use in the AKM. Not sure what SKS based long range silenced weapon you refer to, never heard of such a thing... And, what would China buying black market silenced weapons have to do with the Russians?


1DD
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 4:00:50 PM EST
1DD, got my info from JW's files. Not only did I get 1 example of each round, he's allowing me to copy all his info on all kinds of ammo, including 7.62x39s. In one of them, a letter was written to a Technical Services Officer in the CIA from 1973 (names omitted), and a reply back mentions an extended range silenced weapon based upon the sks action. "The intention was to develop a weapon for use against sentries and gaurd dogs with fairly long range." There was several series of cartridges as well as a smooth bore rifle and a rifled configuration gun. On the last page a picture of the PBS AKM silencer cutaway with an example of the cartridge (plus cutaway).
At the end of the letter it states that the program was halted in late 65, "RED Chinese bought a large cache of US silenced weapons on the Honk Kong market. These particular weapons were destined for the Ranger units of the S. Viet Namese Army, when over half of the were redirected and sold, by persons unknown (but suspected)." wolf
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 4:05:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 4:08:28 PM EST by 1Devildog]
OK, I trust JW's info, but don't get confused by this info and what the type "US" was intended to be used in and how long it was in production. I know it was manufactured until at least 1986, and suspect it has been manufactured even later. It may have been used in this experimental weapon based on the SKS, but it's primary use was in the AKM/AKMS with the PBS silencer...

1DD
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 4:46:53 PM EST
Don't know if I could get any more confused than normal. Not doubting your info, glad to see some help. It is very intresting round to say the least! Will update my files, thanks wolf
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