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Posted: 11/26/2003 10:32:48 AM EDT
[#1]
The pre-ban uppers will swap OK and quite easily.
High capacity magazines are a different matter. The 5.56 mm magazines will not feed 7.62x39 rounds beyond 1 or 2. The only good 7.62x39 mags out there for the AR are the frankenmags. These boards are full of info in the subject. |
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Posted: 11/26/2003 11:00:39 AM EDT
[#2]
Hello Mr. Hendrix! Please allow me to elucidate upon one of the few topics I have some basic understanding of on this subject. There is a caveat here and please pay attention or you'll ruin a perfectly good upper.
American barrels chambered for 7.62x39 are drawn out to .308/.309 internal diameter. Virtually *ALL* European barrels are drawn out to .310/.311 diameter. If you purchase steel cased Russian ammunition (normally about $80-$90/1k rounds)which is the cheapest,pull a bullet and mike it (measure the projectile with a micrometer) you'll see I speak the truth. Then mike your barrel. If your upper is drawn out to .308/.309, DO NOT RUN THE CHEAP RUSSIAN AMMO!!! or the .02/.03 diameter difference will permanently screw up your upper, your groups will be approximately 10-12 inches at 50 yards, and you'll be able to light a cigarette with the barrel on your rifle after 30 rounds. If you want, you can get one all heated up like this and hand the rifle to someone you're not particularly fond of so they'll be tempted to grab the barrel first, then feign dismay as they drop the rifle and scream in pain from what would be an actual branding. I actually saw a guy do that once at the range. I totally agree with the idea of 5.56/7.62 interchangeability and think it's a wonderful idea but the bumps on the road to perfection, completely aside from the lack of magazine cross acceptance may prove difficult to overcome on your project. Best of wishes on your project. Post here and let me know how it turned out. |
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Posted: 11/26/2003 11:26:43 AM EDT
[#3]
[b]tommygs,[/b]
That's very interesting! I have two 7.62x39mm ARs & I didn't know any of what you posted. I had always been told NOT to shoot the surplus stuff in them, but I didn't realize it had anything to do with differing diameters. Anyway, I've only used factory loads and Georgia Arms reloads & I've never had a problem - I save the Wolf & surplus ammo for the AKs... [:)] |
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Posted: 11/26/2003 11:39:13 AM EDT
[#4]
Tommygs,
Wow. Did not know that. Glad I do now. Glad I didn't have to learn that the hard way. |
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Posted: 11/26/2003 12:55:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Thanks to all. I've read the posts on the board concerning the 7.62x39 AR's, but as you know, there are relatively few in comparison to the infinite amount of posts concerning 5.56's. Makes me wonder if that is because of availability of that configuration or because of its limited effectiveness.
tommygs: Based on what you wrote, do I understand correctly that the AK-47/SKS and 7.62 AR do NOT fire the same round? Ken |
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Posted: 11/26/2003 9:07:23 PM EDT
[#6]
First, my understanding is that at least Colt and Olympic Arms both make their rifles with .311" bores, at least on guns made for the last 10 years or so. This may not have been true of earlier rifles, though. I know for certain that Ruger's Mini-30 has used .311" bores since at least the mid-80s.
Also, I'm fairly certain that US-made 7.62x39 has used .311" bullets for some time. Winchester, Remington, and Speer all list ~125gr .311 bullets for reloading as well. I've got some domestic ammo from Federal and Winchester in this caliber that I can test this weekend. Some background: The bores on both US and Russian "30 Caliber"-class guns starts at .300" before the rifling is cut, and this is also the . What is different is that, on US weapons, the rifling is cut right at .004" deep. Add the bore diameter plus the depth of the grooves on both sides of the bore (.300 + .004 + .004) and you get .308". The Russians cut their rifling just a bit deeper, at around .0055, so the diameter between the grooves is about .311" Having deeper rifling allows the rifle to grip the bullet even with the barrel is heavily fouled. The problem is that Russian and European ammo is loaded with bullets of .311" diameter, whereas most "30 Caliber" bullets in the US are .308" These bullets will work in the Russian guns, but may lose some velocity, have jacket scoring, and may not be as accurate in the larger .311" bore. Firing .311" bullets in a .308" bore will result in increased chamber pressures and increased wear on the bore. This is exacerbated with steel-jacketed ammo, especially on non-chromed bores. [b]The main problems with 7.62x39 ARs continue to be be the difficulty of getting the round to feed in the AR's straight mag well, and the severe lack of suitable hi-cap mags, which are increasingly more expensive and difficult to find.[/b] -Troy |
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Posted: 11/27/2003 10:03:56 AM EDT
[#7]
[b]The main problems with 7.62x39 ARs continue to be be the difficulty of getting the round to feed in the AR's straight mag well, and the severe lack of suitable hi-cap mags, which are increasingly more expensive and difficult to find.[/b] -Troy Hopefully that situation will change next year. Nick |
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Posted: 11/27/2003 10:41:24 AM EDT
[#8]
So I need not shoot Wolf in my preban 7.62x39 Colt Ar's, unless I want to ruin the bbls?
I just may have to write a letter to Colt and ask for specifics. Thanks for the info, gentlemen. Edited to say that the factory Colt "20 round" 7.62 mags that I have will allow 6-7 rounds of reliable fire, not just 1 or 2 rounds. YMMV. |
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Posted: 11/27/2003 11:37:12 AM EDT
[#9]
When I want shoot 7.62X39 I pick up my AK-47 type weapon. When I want to shoot .308 I pick up my AR-10. If I want to shoot birds, I use my 16 gauge.
I don't expect any of my guns to be good at washing clothes and I sure as hell don't expect any to shoot bullets of varied caliber. Now I'm gonna go use my M15A4 carbine to heat up some coffee. 5sub |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 7:09:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: When I want shoot 7.62X39 I pick up my AK-47 type weapon. When I want to shoot .308 I pick up my AR-10. If I want to shoot birds, I use my 16 gauge. I don't expect any of my guns to be good at washing clothes and I sure as hell don't expect any to shoot bullets of varied caliber. Now I'm gonna go use my M15A4 carbine to heat up some coffee. 5sub [LOLabove] While I respect your opinions very much (and agree with you 99% of the time), I have to respectfully disagree with the sentiment of your very funny comment above. I have ARs in six different calibers (and AKs in three, for that matter) and enjoy them all. Based upon the number of non-5.56mm ARs floating around, I must believe I am not alone in this... ...variety IS the spice of life, IIRC... [:D] |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 8:41:55 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Quoted: When I want shoot 7.62X39 I pick up my AK-47 type weapon. When I want to shoot .308 I pick up my AR-10. If I want to shoot birds, I use my 16 gauge. I don't expect any of my guns to be good at washing clothes and I sure as hell don't expect any to shoot bullets of varied caliber. Now I'm gonna go use my M15A4 carbine to heat up some coffee. 5sub [LOLabove] While I respect your opinions very much (and agree with you 99% of the time), I have to respectfully disagree with the sentiment of your very funny comment above. I have ARs in six different calibers (and AKs in three, for that matter) and enjoy them all. Based upon the number of non-5.56mm ARs floating around, I must believe I am not alone in this... ...variety IS the spice of life, IIRC... [:D] HardShell, this world would be one boring place if everyone agreed with me !! It's a personal thing. I'm just leary of firearms shooting bullets for which they were not originally designed. Right now there's a good bit of 'buzz' regarding the 6.8mm. I feel the same way about this project. (Does NOT mean I'm right but that's how I feel.) 5sub |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 10:06:38 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: I would like to own a pre-ban AR with a 5.56 upper AND a 7.62 upper. My understanding is that they are interchangeable. If so, this would allow for changing the upper to suit ammo availability. That is true. Can anyone give me advice? Good idea, bad idea? The primary purpose of the would be for my homeland defense. Ken, Generally a BAD idea for homeland defense. As Troy pointed out reliable hi-cap magazines are a bitch to find. Generally the round isn't as effective as the 5.56, and I've never heard of a 7.62x39 AR that was as reliable as its 5.56 brothers. The 7.62x39 uppers are an ok idea if you plan on using them for hunting (though I'd prefer a .458 SOCOM upper myself). Some states don't allow use of 5.56 rifles for deer hunting - and the 7.62x39 allows them to hunt (relatively inexpensively) with their black rifles. |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 11:37:26 AM EDT
[#13]
I know very little about ARs but come here often with questions.
I'll state what I've found out in the area, maybe it will be of help. Federal American Eagle 7.62x39 ammo is loaded with 124gr bullets that measure .309". My Russian surplus ammo with copper plated cases and bullets is loaded with bullets of unknown weight and diameter varying between .307" and .309". The reason I have seriously looked at a 7.62x39 AR is as a cheap alternative to the 300 Whisper for subsonic suppressed use with a DIAS. I could handload with 180gr .308 bullets for SS use and shoot cheap AE US ammo for regular blasting and to collect the cases. The alternative to what you suggest is the AR47 lower receiver www.ar47.com to carry AK mags. The question then becomes not 'will a regular AR function with 7.62x39' but 'how do I make my ar47 function with 5.56x45 ammo from Russian AK74 magazines'. I will continue to investigate and report but the ideal situation would seem to be an AR47 lower receiver and two uppers in 7.62x39 and 5.56x45, both functioning with Russian banana magazines. |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 11:57:56 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: The alternative to what you suggest is the AR47 lower receiver www.ar47.com to carry AK mags. The question then becomes not 'will a regular AR function with 7.62x39' but 'how do I make my ar47 function with 5.56x45 ammo from Russian AK74 magazines'. I will continue to investigate and report but the ideal situation would seem to be an AR47 lower receiver and two uppers in 7.62x39 and 5.56x45, both functioning with Russian banana magazines. You mean something like this? I'm just waiting on the barrel to complete. I'm hoping that this is a hoot to shoot with my registered drop-in. [img]http://home.comcast.net/~frisco_kid/images/IMG_0255.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 12:02:00 PM EDT
[#15]
ROFLAMO - That looks badass! Keep it like that![:P][:)][:D]
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Posted: 12/8/2003 12:10:29 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: The alternative to what you suggest is the AR47 lower receiver www.ar47.com to carry AK mags. The question then becomes not 'will a regular AR function with 7.62x39' but 'how do I make my ar47 function with 5.56x45 ammo from Russian AK74 magazines'. I will continue to investigate and report but the ideal situation would seem to be an AR47 lower receiver and two uppers in 7.62x39 and 5.56x45, both functioning with Russian banana magazines. You mean something like this? I'm just waiting on the barrel to complete. I'm hoping that this is a hoot to shoot with my registered drop-in. [url]http://home.comcast.net/~frisco_kid/images/IMG_0255.jpg[/url] You'll shoot your eye out. TRG |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 5:24:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted: The alternative to what you suggest is the AR47 lower receiver www.ar47.com to carry AK mags. The question then becomes not 'will a regular AR function with 7.62x39' but 'how do I make my ar47 function with 5.56x45 ammo from Russian AK74 magazines'. I will continue to investigate and report but the ideal situation would seem to be an AR47 lower receiver and two uppers in 7.62x39 and 5.56x45, both functioning with Russian banana magazines. You mean something like this? I'm just waiting on the barrel to complete. I'm hoping that this is a hoot to shoot with my registered drop-in. [url]http://home.comcast.net/~frisco_kid/images/IMG_0255.jpg[/url] I know 1-yikes it's special weapons 2-yikes it's too expensive 3-yikes it won't feed regular crappy 7.82x39 But I still think 1-he he cool |
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