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Posted: 1/12/2006 2:24:43 AM EDT
Does the 75 grain TAP fragment or expand (mushroom)?
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Tacked to the top of this forum is some of the best Ammunition info found anywhere, had you looked there you'd have found this which covers your question and more: www.btammolabs.com/tests/5.htm
Mike |
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TAP uses an open-tip match bullet. It is neither designed to fragment nor mushroom, though I suspect that it fragments more often than not.
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? My TAP ammo has a plastic tip |
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Hornady also has a 75grn A-MAX round which has the polmer tip too, like the lower weight TAP rounds, which also have the polymer tip, but the 75grn TAP round mentioned above, as noted, is a match BTHP round which is excellent for self-defense use. Mike |
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(The link you provided )They don't say anything about the 75 TAP. Can you answer the question? You are correct I did not read through all the gelatin/velocity/test etc. My question is, does the 75 gr TAP frag or mushroom. |
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again (The link you provided )They don't say anything about the 75 TAP. Can you answer the question?
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B&T Ammo Labs Fragmentation Experiment #5: "Multiple Round, High Velocity 5.56mm 75 grain Hornady BTHP vs 77grain Nosler BTHP performance in bare gel." It is there as large as life. Open your eyes son. |
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Slam bootie! |
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Hornady makes different bullets, how do you know the tap is the same exact round they are mentioning? How do you know if its loaded to the same specs? I want them to say TAP not 75 grain. I will try to contact Hornady tomorrow and post the answer. If I'm wrong then I can easily stand corrected, but if I'm wright and its not the same as the ones in the test, please try not to get your panty's in a bunch lady's. As soon as I find out I'll post back hear. PS. Don't get me wrong (I'm not an ass hole) I DO hope your wright. I just want to make 100% sure were talking the TAP and not anything else. I would accept the test and ballistics chart quick and shut the f*&ck up if they mentioned the TAP once. lol But I have to be thorough. ***Edited for politeness *** |
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Goals 2000 educated? lol funny, did it take you all week to make that one up, or were you saving it for the right moment? I can read, and what I read never mentioned the TAP Ammo. Looking at the pic you provided, it clearly says BTHP, and no one has shown me proof of that till now. Thank you. I never said it was not what they claimed, I said the links never mentioned the TAP (I've said that a few times already, let me know when it sinks in). Before this thread it wasn't clear if the bullet fragmented or mushroomed. I'll still call them in a bit and ask just to be certain. I stand corrected about the .223 - 5.56mm. Francisco PS. Thanks again Mike, now you can go pat your self on the shoulder. X2 |
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No pat on the back necessary for me, I'm a reloader and as such I buy "components" and tend to know one bullet from another as well as pay close attention to the specific "bullet" used in most 223/5.56 factory fodder.
A bit more research into the ammo faq and tap related threads and you'll get it fingered out. Mike ps - sorry if I hurt your feelings, but as a older guy with young boys (19 yr old twins) I am painfully familar with the lack of education and instituted "dumbing down of America" shoveled in our local schools and am constantly attempting to influence my two knuckleheads to use their noggins for some beside a hat-rack and things like spelling counts, not with much success; I might add, (as nobody can TELL a 18 or 19 year old anything 'cus they already know it all) Takes us until about 40 or 50 to realize that just ain't so................ |
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No hurt feelings Mike, I was just playing around. TRUST ME I was sincere when I thanked you, and again I want to say thanks for helping me out. Francisco |
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I just called Hornady and spoke to Doug. He said yes it is a BTHP, "BUT" its not meant/made/designed to fragment. It mushrooms and "if" it does frag only a small percentage of the bullet will do so, up to 75% of the bullet will still be intact but again it was made to mushroom, not fragment. Some hollow points chambered in .40 cal and other handgun loads do the same thing, they are made to mushroom but occasionally they do come apart. I never said if it mushroomed or Fragged I didn't know but now we all do.
ogcujo LOL |
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One other thing which has a bearing on this subject which you may or may not be aware of. The fragmentation you see in the B&T thread above is a result of the round (75grn. MBTHP) striking the ballistic gelatin at a distance just past 15 feet (normal distance to the chronograph) which is something that man at Hornady did not take into account when you asked him I'd suspect. While true they may not have designed the bullet NOT to frag, they also are more interested in the bullet performance further downrange, which may be past the point where velocity is slower and fragmentation is minimal, (hope that made sense). Tacked to the top Ammunition forum there's another "link" to the 75 & 77 bullets which shows chrony results for this round that IIRC contains actual distances from 20" and 16" barreled rifles for the fragmentation range, check it out, infact I suggest reading everything and anything "TACKED" to the top of any forum around here as there is excellent info all over this place. Mike |
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It frags and does not mushroom. If they said it was designed to frag it would not be land warfare legal. Howevre it doe not mushroom AT ALL it only frags. Hornady Match, TAP, BlackHills 75 grain all use the same bullet. There is no polymer tipped 75 TAP. There is more thn 25% fragmentation. The guy at Hornady does not know what he is talking about. There are many studies you can access that prove this.
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What was Hornady supposed to say to some caller on the phone out of nowhere...? As DevL said, a fragging bullet is a war liability... so it is DESIGNED to mushroom, it just does so MISERABLY (oops! ) and fragments instead... End result, a quick dispatch of the enemy.
Rmpl |
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you are 100% correct in saying that the guy at Hornady doesn't have a clue about what he is talking about. I have the TAP LE/Red Box catalog in front of me and it gives all the specs of all the TAP rounds and the 75gr out of a 1/9 16" Bushy AR and tested in Ballistic Gel Retained weight 20.8 grains. % of frag 72% The Hornady guy says that it will remain about 75% intact, if he would just look in his own catalog he would see it's just the oppisite and it frags about 75% |
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If it was designed to mushrrom to would also not be land warfare legal FWIW. |
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If I'm not mistaken, the USA never signed to not use HP. I cant remember which convention it was. It's not the Gueneva I know that. We just follow it for whatever reason..... |
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Here are the Hornady results:
www.bushmaster.com/le/tests/hornady_tactical_ammunition.htm I suspect the TAP 75 gr and Match 75 gr are identical in terms of the projectile. The specs are the same. It is not your typical JHP. The opening at the tip is tiny. |
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So basically at any CQB range all the ammo is going to frag right? Even out of a 10.5" barrel? |
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You may wish to check the thread on Bushmaster pistols. It has a link on velocity vs barrel length and info on fragmentation:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=267668 |
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That guy at Hornady was full of crap.
Can he put that in writing for us because wisconsin doesn't allow "non expanding" bullets for hunting and then we can show the DNR that it does because the hornady guy said so. It just goes to show, you have to be careful about who you talk to. Ask him if he could show you a picture of a recovered mushroomed 75 grain bthp TAP bullet. Also, you missed it but mr. wilson showed you a picture of 5.56 TAP, and you had stated that it was .223. Which, you're both right but us lowly civilians don't know how to buy the 5.56 tap. How did you get that mr.wilson? |
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to get the 5.56 tap you must be or know a LEO and buy it directly from Hornady.
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As stated elsewhere here but I just want to put it all in one post so the OP is aware...
There is another topic not to far below this one that is all about the differences between the Hornady 75gr TAP and Match. They are not identical. The bullet is identical but they have different powder amounts. How does that affect terminal performance? I think the end findings in that thread stated that at close distances it did not matter much but that the Match was hotter than the TAP. Also the 5.56 is NOT the same as the .223 either. The 5.56 is hotter as well. Again how does that affect terminal performance at close distances? Probably not too much but for the purposes of being accurate they are not the same and as such the terms should not be used interchangeably. So I'm not sure but that would leave one to believe that from Hornady there is : 1. 75gr .223 Match 2. 75gr .223 TAP 3. 75gr 5.56 TAP I don't think that there is a 75gr. 5.56 Match. All of the above would have the same bullet (projectile) but are obviously different rounds and as such would all have different terminal performance. However, and I am making an assumption here, I think that the general consensus here is that all of the above will perform well at close ranges even out of short barrels. If everything that I have said above is correct (and I don't know that it is) I would choose the 5.56 TAP first if I could get it (which I can't) then the .223 Match and then the .223 TAP. But I would feel comfortable with any of those. I have a 16" barrel for what it is worth. |
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