I'd like to get an idea of what to expect with the 6.8 out of a short barrel, looking at either a 12in or 13in barrel. Wisconsins deer regs state that a rifle "Must have an overall 26" minimum length with 16" minimum barrel length" to be legal for hunting, however the law they referance is 941.28 which says short barreled rifles are illegal, but then lists the exemptions for this, one being that it is fully registered/licensed in accordance with federal law. Glenn_R found out that as long as you are legaly in possesion of the gun and the gun is legal, you can legaly hunt with it. So to that end.

I want a short 6.8SPC upper to take out with me for deer season as I think it would do very well in some of the areas I hunt that are very overgrown and thick. All I need is to be able to put down a deer with it at 200 yards tops, though most shots in these locations will be well short of 100, more like 50 and under, but it does open up in spots to allow for a potentialy longer shot of about 200 max. So could the 6.8SPC out of 12-13in barrel take a deer at that 200? The other thing it would be used for is a gun to lug out durring turkey season because there are hogs in the area I'd be hunting too, I think something nice and compact would be great for an "oh look a hog" moment. I'd also probably make it my fulltime hog gun too.

If a 12-13in barrel wouldn't work that far out, what would be a good barrel length to go with? The idea here being that I'd prefer to go as short as possible, but still have the punch needed to get the job done.

I've read the FAQ and such but would like more info from folks that might not only use 6.8 for matches and such but anyone that has already used it to hunt with.

How well do you shoot with it?
At the very worst it will have the same MV as a 22lr with a bullet nearly 3 times the weight.
My grandfather and I have both taken deer that damage our trees(read $$) with 22's.
I keep my shots under 50 yards and prefer to use a centerfire, but if you've got the bug and the know how, it should put a deer down..

I would go with the 16 in barrel and a collapsable stock.  It may be legal but it a ranger catches you it might take him to figure out that your SBR is legal.  

He's talking 6.8 mm , not 5.56, different ballistics (sp).   Plus fragmentation is not as desired in game as it is in two legged prey, don't want to wast good meat.  

Quoted: I would go with the 16 in barrel and a collapsable stock.  It may be legal but it a ranger catches you it might take him to figure out that your SBR is legal.

+ 1, and I know it's not 5.56

Another thing you might want to think about is taking a rifle with you turkey hunting.  Since we can not legally take a turkey with a rifle, I would believe that any DNR warden that sees you would most likely cite you for hunting turkeys with a rifle.  I wouldn;t want to chance going to court over it.  Just carry a slug or two if you hunt where there are hogs.

Your choice though

Quoted: I would go with the 16 in barrel and a collapsable stock.  It may be legal but it a ranger catches you it might take him to figure out that your SBR is legal.

I don't play to shit like that. The gun will be legal, I'll have the paper work, and plan to have it in writing from the DNR that it is legal to use to hunt, same way I have it in writing that if you legaly posses a suppressor it is legal to hunt with. I'll have my bases covered. So I'm not afraid to use it and I don't care if a warrden gets his panties in a bunch over it.

Quoted: He's talking 6.8 mm , not 5.56, different ballistics (sp).   Plus fragmentation is not as desired in game as it is in two legged prey, don't want to wast good meat.

.

There are SP bullets available for hand loading, and suposedly Hornady is going to have some factory ammo loadings out soon. Remington, if they ever get off their lazy asses, is suposed to be loading a 115gr SP for the 6.8. I'm not worried about bullet selection, I'm worried about the terminal ballistics on deer size game out to 200 yards, from a short barrel.

Quoted: Quoted: I would go with the 16 in barrel and a collapsable stock.  It may be legal but it a ranger catches you it might take him to figure out that your SBR is legal.   + 1, and I know it's not 5.56 Another thing you might want to think about is taking a rifle with you turkey hunting.  Since we can not legally take a turkey with a rifle, I would believe that any DNR warden that sees you would most likely cite you for hunting turkeys with a rifle.  I wouldn;t want to chance going to court over it.  Just carry a slug or two if you hunt where there are hogs. Your choice though

Again not worried about that. Kinda hard to say somone is taking a turkey with a rifle when the rifle is slung, and a shotgun is in thier hands.

Quoted: Another thing you might want to think about is taking a rifle with you turkey hunting. Just carry a slug or two if you hunt where there are hogs.

Not certain I'd want to run a slug through a super full turkey choke.

Quoted: Again not worried about that. Kinda hard to say somone is taking a turkey with a rifle when the rifle is slung, and a shotgun is in thier hands.

Depends on how the law is written.

Quoted: Quoted: Another thing you might want to think about is taking a rifle with you turkey hunting. Just carry a slug or two if you hunt where there are hogs. Not certain I'd want to run a slug through a super full turkey choke. Quoted: Again not worried about that. Kinda hard to say somone is taking a turkey with a rifle when the rifle is slung, and a shotgun is in thier hands. Depends on how the law is written.

Only law is you can't shoot a turkey with a rifle. If I have a rifle and a shot gun and the shot gun is in my hands, and the rifle has no mag, no case period. Nothing says you can't carry more then one firearm.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Another thing you might want to think about is taking a rifle with you turkey hunting. Just carry a slug or two if you hunt where there are hogs. Not certain I'd want to run a slug through a super full turkey choke. Quoted: Again not worried about that. Kinda hard to say somone is taking a turkey with a rifle when the rifle is slung, and a shotgun is in thier hands. Depends on how the law is written. Only law is you can't shoot a turkey with a rifle. If I have a rifle and a shot gun and the shot gun is in my hands, and the rifle has no mag, no case period. Nothing says you can't carry more then one firearm.

29.001(42)
(42) "Hunt" or "hunting" includes shooting, shooting at, pursuing, taking, capturing or killing or attempting to capture or kill any wild animal.

This was taken from the statutes.  If you are in the woods after turkeys, i would think that would be pursuing a wild animal and would consitute hunting with whatever firearms you had with you.

After looking at the turkey hunting regs again, I guess you can't have a slug with you either.  The only reason I said that was if you were really worried about that, and it came down to either you being mauled or attempting to fire a slug out of a full choke, I might attempt to shoot it.  Personally, I don't feel that the need to carry all these rifles in the woods in nessessary and it borders on illegal, in my opinion.

I would suggest just taking the shot shells that you are using for turkey hunting.

If you want to push it and have the money and time to fight a potentional charge, then by all means have at it.  I personally don't like pressing the grey areas of the law.

Good luck in whatever you do.

tAG

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Another thing you might want to think about is taking a rifle with you turkey hunting. Just carry a slug or two if you hunt where there are hogs. Not certain I'd want to run a slug through a super full turkey choke. Quoted: Again not worried about that. Kinda hard to say somone is taking a turkey with a rifle when the rifle is slung, and a shotgun is in thier hands. Depends on how the law is written. Only law is you can't shoot a turkey with a rifle. If I have a rifle and a shot gun and the shot gun is in my hands, and the rifle has no mag, no case period. Nothing says you can't carry more then one firearm. 29.001(42) (42) "Hunt" or "hunting" includes shooting, shooting at, pursuing, taking, capturing or killing or attempting to capture or kill any wild animal. This was taken from the statutes.  If you are in the woods after turkeys, i would think that would be pursuing a wild animal and would consitute hunting with whatever firearms you had with you. After looking at the turkey hunting regs again, I guess you can't have a slug with you either.  The only reason I said that was if you were really worried about that, and it came down to either you being mauled or attempting to fire a slug out of a full choke, I might attempt to shoot it.  Personally, I don't feel that the need to carry all these rifles in the woods in nessessary and it borders on illegal, in my opinion. I would suggest just taking the shot shells that you are using for turkey hunting. If you want to push it and have the money and time to fight a potentional charge, then by all means have at it.  I personally don't like pressing the grey areas of the law. Good luck in whatever you do.

Thanks but this thread isn't about what you think is legal or illegal or even on the border of it. It's about the ballistics of a spesific round out of a speific length barrel and it's ability to take or not take deer sized game at a max of 200 yards.

The FAQ actually does address this, to some extent.   I think you can expect 2400-2500fps from a 12" barrel, depending on the pressure signs in your barrel.    

From a 12" vs a 16" or 18", you basically hit the same velocity 50-75 yards closer, so you'd be around 2000fps @ 200 yards instead of 250 or 280.

Hope this helps

-z

Quoted: Thanks but this thread isn't about what you think is legal or illegal or even on the border of it. It's about the ballistics of a spesific round out of a speific length barrel and it's ability to take or not take deer sized game at a max of 200 yards.

The problem is that you're asking a subjective question.  Will a 6.8mm SPC out of a 12" barrel penetrate the flesh and organs of a living creature at 200 yards?  Absolutely.  Will it take that game quickly and humanely?  I have no idea and I would guess that most wouldn't either.  

A 115gr bullet out of a 12 to 13 inch barrel will still be supersonic and moving at around 2000 fps at 200 yards.  HTH

Stephen

I grew up hunting deer in central WI (Westfield area).   The average shot was about 40 yards.  The last deer I took there (in like '00 or '01) was at 8 yards.   The furthest I can remember was about 150.

-z

Quoted: I grew up hunting deer in central WI (Westfield area).   The average shot was about 40 yards.  The last deer I took there (in like '00 or '01) was at 8 yards.   The furthest I can remember was about 150. -z

Troy no it's not that much of a restriction at all. the below I hope will cover that pretty well and not be to muddled up.

The last two we've shot, I didn't shoot, but distances were 250(LRF verified) and 147(LRF verified) we average about 100-150 for shot distance max in the areas we stand but if you shift your stand you can easily be looking at 600 yards or more of open area to shoot in. I prefer to hunker down in the more closed in areas because the deer hang out in those areas.

I'm just looking at if it's posible at a max range of 200 yards because thats about the max range I'd have in the area that i will use this gun in one area that I stand for deer, though the trail that pops out into that clearing is actually the least used of all the trails that come into the area.  Where we hunt is mixed with farm fields and woods, and it's rather hilly too. Most shots will be under 100 yards because of where our stands are located, but I always want to take into consideration the "worst" case. This being a need to take a 200 yard shot. Also I won't take a shot over 200 at all when deer hunting because thats my comfort limit, I can from supported field positions keep all my shots in the vitals at that distance, I haven't yet spent enough time at further ranges to be comfortable taking a shot past 200 which could easily come up. I've passed on three deer because they were well past 200 even though I had clear lanes of fire.

My only concern is that a 115gr SP bullet will do the job. This will only be a gun used in a spesific area for deer, and i might use it on drives, though we thankfully don't really do them anymore. It will be more or less a pig gun execpt for that one area durring the couple days of deer season that I get.

My normal guns for deer ar a 308 and a 30-06, but I like having options, an 18lb .308 is not fun to hump around up and down hills all week, though I have done it. I use that whn I'm mostly going to be standing all day. The 06 is shorter then the 308 and lighter so i I'm going to be stalking deer then I take that, it also has only a 20in barrel, maks it easier in some areas. I'm just looking at this as a spesific tool for a spesific job in  a spesific area. Hell I may not even hit that area this year or, there may not even be any ammo available for it by deer season so it may not ever get used this year.

Why not use the 110gr Sierra Pro-Hunter SP or the 110gr Barnes T-X?  Both should have good penetration and are available for reloading now.

Colt100, it would not be legal to carry slugs.  Unless it was in the gun deer season or bear.

Also colt100, can you not lawfully carry a pistol with a barrel shorter than 5-1/2" while hunting Deer?  I would say yes you can because you can legally hunt small game also during that season.  During turkey season it would be legal to hunt coyote's and unprotected species, which to our knowledge is including the pigs / hogs.  And possibly some other species that you can in the "fall" turkey season.  He is merely talking about the same type of situation.  



Photoman, just do it.  Somebodie's gotta be the first.!!!!!     Deer have been killed with a much weaker caliber regularily.  I'd say it'd do the job just fine.  Especially even somebody loaded them VMAXes.  This is my opinion of course.  

Quoted: Why not use the 110gr Sierra Pro-Hunter SP or the 110gr Barnes T-X?  Both should have good penetration and are available for reloading now.

Thanks forthe mention of the bullets Zak, i got a lot more reading to do as far as bullets I can load for it and all that good stuff on load data as well
i might as well lookat the possibility of hand loading it, I'm only set up for pistol cal right now, so I have to see what it would run to get the 550 set up for 6.8.

JJ I got a email back from the DNR pretty quick today. And as Glenn pointed out the no SBR/SBS for hunting is refering to  that state satute on SB rifles and shotguns. So I now have it in writing that if it is leaglly possessed and meets the minimum cal requirements it is legal to use it hunting. So I think it's pretty much a go. I just have to get the paper work and money for the tax stamp and get that stuff going.



Damn now I got to buy expencive mags....oh well.

Quoted: i might as well lookat the possibility of hand loading it, I'm only set up for pistol cal right now, so I have to see what it would run to get the 550 set up for 6.8.

Besides dies, I believe there are enough Dillon parts to make this work.   If you don't run every stage in the 550, it's even easier (no powder system changes, no primer system changes, etc)

Quoted: Quoted: i might as well lookat the possibility of hand loading it, I'm only set up for pistol cal right now, so I have to see what it would run to get the 550 set up for 6.8. Besides dies, I believe there are enough Dillon parts to make this work.   If you don't run every stage in the 550, it's even easier (no powder system changes, no primer system changes, etc)

I'll shoot an email off to Dillon later today and see what all is needed. Who all makes dies for 6.8? found some.

I guess the better question is where to get a 12in barrel??

IM sent to replies because of OT direction this thread is going.

Quoted: IM sent to replies because of OT direction this thread is going.

OT?? it's my topic, I'll take it any direction I want to, it still relates to hunting with a short barreled 6.8.

My first inquiry would be to MSTN...

www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/HUNT/Pig/Pig_Hunting.htm WI hog hunting info

From the areas I see mostly cooley regions, swamp areas,..I'd 40 yard shot would be a long one...
Especially with folliage...

Good luck..hope you kill a lot of those bastards..

Quoted: www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/HUNT/Pig/Pig_Hunting.htm WI hog hunting info From the areas I see mostly cooley regions, swamp areas,..I'd 40 yard shot would be a long one... Especially with folliage... Good luck..hope you kill a lot of those bastards..

Actually in the Cooley Valley there are several areas where you can get a good almost 1k yard shot(in general not on pigs), and if you want you can shoot ridge to ridge. In the Bad Ax Valley which is just one valley north of the Cooley there are pigs around. In the areas down in the valley there are average shots of about 50 or so yards. 100 is not un common either is 150-200 in those areas. Most folks that get their deer in those areas though get them on drives so the actual shot distance is about 50 or less. My 6 different stand locations in the Cooley Valley offer shots anywhere from PB out to 50 yards, to PB to over 600. So it varies a lot. The one pig that was spotted last deer season by my buddy would have only been about a 30 yard shot for him, but numb nuts decided it would be more fun to chace it and try to kill it then just kill it.

It's a great little place to hunt pretty much anything. I hope to spend a couple days out there scouting in Sept and October.

Thanks but this thread isn't about what you think is legal or illegal or even on the border of it. It's about the ballistics of a spesific round out of a speific length barrel and it's ability to take or not take deer sized game at a max of 200 yards.

My response to the OT was in response to your rebuttal posted above.  Since you were posting that we were getting off topic, that's why I posted like i did.

But hell, if you want to argue.....

Quoted: Just carry a slug or two if you hunt where there are hogs.

DNR pamphlet says it's illegal to possess slugs when hunting turkey.  Cite on page 3

EDIT TO ADD  Oops, should have finished reading the thread, someone already beat me to it.

Photoman, let me know what you find out about short 6.8 barrels, I might have to drop one of those on my SBR lower.  That'd make a much more compact deer gun than my .30-06  

Quoted: Quoted: Just carry a slug or two if you hunt where there are hogs. DNR pamphlet says it's illegal to possess slugs when hunting turkey.  Cite on page 3 EDIT TO ADD  Oops, should have finished reading the thread, someone already beat me to it. Photoman, let me know what you find out about short 6.8 barrels, I might have to drop one of those on my SBR lower.  That'd make a much more compact deer gun than my .30-06

Glenn will do.

I have to find a 12in barrel, posted a thread in the MSTN forum so I'm just waiting on an answer from them. If I can find enough ammo for it before we do a Carbine 3 class next year I think I may just use it for that.

Right now though I'm looking at only picking up 4 15rd mags and 2 25 round mags for a hunting set up due to prices. I think I may just end up having a lot of fun with this build. For now I'm going to top it off by switching the 1-4 leupy between the 16in 5.56 upper and the 6.8 upper.

Zak one more question for you. cal a 30cal suppressor be used for 6.8? I've not seen any made spesificly for the 6.8, I tried a google search for it, but nothing turned up.

30cal (308) suppressors GTG for 6.8.

You can shoot smaller calibers through a larger diameter suppressor with some degradation in effectiveness.  What you don't want to do is shoot something with a lot more gas volume than what it was designed for (e.g. 22-250 through a 556 can = possibly BAD).

ETA-  I'm pretty sure you can get 6.8-specific suppressors from Gemtech, JET, and Surefire.   But a 308 can would make a lot more sense IMO.

-z

Quoted: 30cal (308) suppressors GTG for 6.8. You can shoot smaller calibers through a larger diameter suppressor with some degradation in effectiveness.  What you don't want to do is shoot something with a lot more gas volume than what it was designed for (e.g. 22-250 through a 556 can = possibly BAD). ETA-  I'm pretty sure you can get 6.8-specific suppressors from Gemtech, JET, and Surefire.   But a 308 can would make a lot more sense IMO. -z

Ok definetly going to go with a .308 can then, since I can then use it on my 308 too

Thank you.

Quoted: Quoted: 30cal (308) suppressors GTG for 6.8. You can shoot smaller calibers through a larger diameter suppressor with some degradation in effectiveness.  What you don't want to do is shoot something with a lot more gas volume than what it was designed for (e.g. 22-250 through a 556 can = possibly BAD). ETA-  I'm pretty sure you can get 6.8-specific suppressors from Gemtech, JET, and Surefire.   But a 308 can would make a lot more sense IMO. -z Ok definetly going to go with a .308 can then, since I can then use it on my 308 too Thank you.

You're an animal!!!!!!  6.8, 6.8, 6.8!!!!!!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 30cal (308) suppressors GTG for 6.8. You can shoot smaller calibers through a larger diameter suppressor with some degradation in effectiveness.  What you don't want to do is shoot something with a lot more gas volume than what it was designed for (e.g. 22-250 through a 556 can = possibly BAD). ETA-  I'm pretty sure you can get 6.8-specific suppressors from Gemtech, JET, and Surefire.   But a 308 can would make a lot more sense IMO. -z Ok definetly going to go with a .308 can then, since I can then use it on my 308 too Thank you. You're an animal addict!!!!!!  6.8, 6.8, 6.8!!!!!!

Fixed that for ya.

Once you get that first NFA item, it's almost as bad as BRD, and when ya mix the two ohhhhhh boy. I decided to save a little cash and just register the olympic arms lower I have. (wonder how long till markm shows up now that the name Olympic Arms has been spoken) Though it would only be fitting, it was the first AR I bought and the poor thing was nutered when I got it, it was a post ban gun. So now it becomes something even more evil, the only way it could get anymore evil would be for me to stumble on enough money to get a RDIAS, then it would truely reach the top o it's evilness.

Photoman, I was at the 25 meter this morning with my Carbine (m1) blowing off some rounds.  Also my .45.  I think I got the carbine almost tip top.  I did have 2 FTF's but 1 of them was me from sticking my forearm on the mag.  It tilts it too far forward and the rounds dont' move then.  The other one I'm not sure what happened.  I love that  little rifle!!!!

OK, back to the original thread topic. 6.8, 6.8 6.8!!!

Did you see the mags on Midwayusa.com?  They we're having a sale a little bit ago.

Quoted: Photoman, I was at the 25 meter this morning with my Carbine (m1) blowing off some rounds.  Also my .45.  I think I got the carbine almost tip top.  I did have 2 FTF's but 1 of them was me from sticking my forearm on the mag.  It tilts it too far forward and the rounds dont' move then.  The other one I'm not sure what happened.  I love that  little rifle!!!! OK, back to the original thread topic. 6.8, 6.8 6.8!!! Did you see the mags on Midwayusa.com?  They we're having a sale a little bit ago.

No I didn't see that thanks for the info.

I can't remember are you going to try and make it out for the Run N' Gun tomarrow? were not meeting up till 5pm. That M1carbine would be great for it.

Quoted: Quoted: Photoman, I was at the 25 meter this morning with my Carbine (m1) blowing off some rounds.  Also my .45.  I think I got the carbine almost tip top.  I did have 2 FTF's but 1 of them was me from sticking my forearm on the mag.  It tilts it too far forward and the rounds dont' move then.  The other one I'm not sure what happened.  I love that  little rifle!!!! OK, back to the original thread topic. 6.8, 6.8 6.8!!! Did you see the mags on Midwayusa.com?  They we're having a sale a little bit ago. No I didn't see that thanks for the info. I can't remember are you going to try and make it out for the Run N' Gun tomarrow? were not meeting up till 5pm. That M1carbine would be great for it.

Although I'd really like to, I got a full day tomorrow.  Thanks for the offer though!!!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Photoman, I was at the 25 meter this morning with my Carbine (m1) blowing off some rounds.  Also my .45.  I think I got the carbine almost tip top.  I did have 2 FTF's but 1 of them was me from sticking my forearm on the mag.  It tilts it too far forward and the rounds dont' move then.  The other one I'm not sure what happened.  I love that  little rifle!!!! OK, back to the original thread topic. 6.8, 6.8 6.8!!! Did you see the mags on Midwayusa.com?  They we're having a sale a little bit ago. No I didn't see that thanks for the info. I can't remember are you going to try and make it out for the Run N' Gun tomarrow? were not meeting up till 5pm. That M1carbine would be great for it. Although I'd really like to, I got a full day tomorrow.  Thanks for the offer though!!!

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