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7/8/2020 3:01:36 PM
Posted: 4/20/2011 6:54:28 AM EDT
I'm looking to build an AR for long range, any suggestions from past experience would be greatly appreciated. Bulding from the ground up bought no parts yet. Thanks
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 7:13:49 AM EDT
What caliber AR?  Have you shot long distances before?
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 7:26:15 AM EDT
Large or small platform?
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 7:49:57 AM EDT
5.56 is what I'm thinking. Shot 30cal but never anything this small.
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 7:52:25 AM EDT
No offense, but keep dreaming about a 5.56 with any kind of consistency at that range, dude.
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 8:00:14 AM EDT
Small frame - 6.5 Grendel
Large frame - 6.5 Creedmoor, 260 Rem, .308
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 8:14:50 AM EDT
if you want to shoot a .223 AR that long of distances, you'll be severely limiting your choices.



A 20" Heavy barrel match grade barrel shooting 75gr, 77gr, 80gr bullets will hit out to 600 not a problem.



To hit past that, you'll need a very high quality 24" bull barrel. It can be done, varmint hunters will use a 24" bull to shoot prairie dogs out to 700-800Y. You will also most likely need to use 77gr or 80gr bullets (80 gr bullets are single feed only).

Good optics obviously, and a good trigger would also help.
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 8:15:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2011 8:19:46 AM EDT by parabellum_9x19]
According to my ballistics calculator, for M193 out of a 1:7 16" barrel, the wind drift at 600 meters for a constant, perpendicular wind (to the shot direction) of 10mph is:  58", which is 4.8333 feet.

Unless you plan on shooting in a windless environment, I suggest you consider a different caliber for this endeavor...or make sure you get a match grade barrel NO less than 20" and shoot only match grade, heavy loads.
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 8:17:14 AM EDT
none taken, the fun of the build is trying to get there, and if I don't well maybe I will end up with a 500yd shooter.
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 8:17:53 AM EDT



Originally Posted By parabellum_9x19:


According to my ballistics calculator, for M193 out of a 1:7 16" barrel, the wind drift at 600 meters for a constant, perpendicular wind (to the shot direction) of 10mph is:  58", which is 4.8333 feet.



Unless you plan on shooting in a windless environment, I suggest you consider a different caliber for this endeavor.


He's obviously not going to shoot a 55gr M193 bullet that far. I wouldn't even trust a M193 to consistently hit a 5" circle at 300Y... 77 or 80 gr SMKs are going to be his only choice.



 
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 8:18:50 AM EDT
As everyone else has said the AR15 platform is really cut out for that except maybe in 6.5 grendel.  Something that can handle a .308 length cartridge will give you far more options, and won't be cheap.  Anything to shoot that well consistently needs to be made of good parts.
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 8:19:43 AM EDT
6.5 Grendel is about the only thing that is gonna get you that far.
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 8:20:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NightHawkIX:

Originally Posted By parabellum_9x19:
According to my ballistics calculator, for M193 out of a 1:7 16" barrel, the wind drift at 600 meters for a constant, perpendicular wind (to the shot direction) of 10mph is:  58", which is 4.8333 feet.

Unless you plan on shooting in a windless environment, I suggest you consider a different caliber for this endeavor.

He's obviously not going to shoot a 55gr M193 bullet that far. I wouldn't even trust a M193 to consistently hit a 5" circle at 300Y... 77 or 80 gr SMKs are going to be his only choice.
 


Yeah, I updated my post to reflect that my example was based on a poor setup for that distance, and that at the least he should choose a longer barrel and match grade heavy loads.
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 8:22:00 AM EDT
I've been lookig at a WOT 24 or 26 inch match grade.
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 8:24:10 AM EDT
WOT? White Oak Tactical? ??
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 8:32:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NightHawkIX:
if you want to shoot a .223 AR that long of distances, you'll be severely limiting your choices.

A 20" Heavy barrel match grade barrel shooting 75gr, 77gr, 80gr bullets will hit out to 600 not a problem.

To hit past that, you'll need a very high quality 24" bull barrel. It can be done, varmint hunters will use a 24" bull to shoot prairie dogs out to 700-800Y. You will also most likely need to use 77gr or 80gr bullets (80 gr bullets are single feed only).
Good optics obviously, and a good trigger would also help.


I'd like to learn more about people who can shoot pairie dogs at 7-800 yards. Link?
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 8:34:46 AM EDT
Yes
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 8:36:16 AM EDT
No link, you'd have to come to IL and visit me at my gun club... this is a "in-real-life" situation haha.


Originally Posted By PR361:



Originally Posted By NightHawkIX:

if you want to shoot a .223 AR that long of distances, you'll be severely limiting your choices.



A 20" Heavy barrel match grade barrel shooting 75gr, 77gr, 80gr bullets will hit out to 600 not a problem.



To hit past that, you'll need a very high quality 24" bull barrel. It can be done, varmint hunters will use a 24" bull to shoot prairie dogs out to 700-800Y. You will also most likely need to use 77gr or 80gr bullets (80 gr bullets are single feed only).

Good optics obviously, and a good trigger would also help.




I'd like to learn more about people who can shoot pairie dogs at 7-800 yards. Link?






 
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 8:37:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By PR361:
Originally Posted By NightHawkIX:
if you want to shoot a .223 AR that long of distances, you'll be severely limiting your choices.

A 20" Heavy barrel match grade barrel shooting 75gr, 77gr, 80gr bullets will hit out to 600 not a problem.

To hit past that, you'll need a very high quality 24" bull barrel. It can be done, varmint hunters will use a 24" bull to shoot prairie dogs out to 700-800Y. You will also most likely need to use 77gr or 80gr bullets (80 gr bullets are single feed only).
Good optics obviously, and a good trigger would also help.


I'd like to learn more about people who can shoot pairie dogs at 7-800 yards. Link?


I've seen deer and elk taken at 1600+ yards too.
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 9:01:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2011 9:04:40 AM EDT by Agente_Bizco]
Originally Posted By NightHawkIX:
A 20" Heavy barrel match grade barrel shooting 75gr, 77gr, 80gr bullets will hit out to 600 not a problem.

To hit past that, you'll need a very high quality 24" bull barrel. It can be done, varmint hunters will use a 24" bull to shoot prairie dogs out to 700-800Y. You will also most likely need to use 77gr or 80gr bullets (80 gr bullets are single feed only).
Good optics obviously, and a good trigger would also help.


NightHawkIX,
I will have to disagree with this portion of your post.  In 1998 the U.S. Army Military Police decided that they needed bridge the gap between the basic riflemen and a SRT sniper.  So they decided to send about 200 MPs through a precision marksmen school.  The training was provided by the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit (USAMU), and luckily I was one of those selected to attend.  Over a three week period we were taught to engaged and hit man-size targets out to 800 meters.  This was all accomplished with 20” M16A2 rifles and Ball ammo.  There was nothing special about the rifles and the ammo was not match grade.  

The 5.56x45mm is an inherently accurate and predictable round out to an incredibly long range.  The majority of the training that we received was teaching us to trust our rifles.  Once an M16A2 has been properly zeroed to the shooter, they can be used to engage targets out to 800 meters.  That is why the rear sight aperture rotates up to 8/3.

The current version of this training is now a national program provided by the USAMU and it is titled the Squad Designated Marksmanship Course (SDM).  The training is conducted utilizing a 14.5” M4 carbine and troops are taught how to engaged and destroy targets out to 600 meters.

Today would I engaged a target that far away with my rifle, not likely, but it is nice to know that if I have to engaged targets that far away I will be able to hit them with the first round.

http://www.usaac.army.mil/amu/training/sdm.asp
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 10:15:04 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Agente_Bizco:



Originally Posted By NightHawkIX:

A 20" Heavy barrel match grade barrel shooting 75gr, 77gr, 80gr bullets will hit out to 600 not a problem.



To hit past that, you'll need a very high quality 24" bull barrel. It can be done, varmint hunters will use a 24" bull to shoot prairie dogs out to 700-800Y. You will also most likely need to use 77gr or 80gr bullets (80 gr bullets are single feed only).

Good optics obviously, and a good trigger would also help.




NightHawkIX,

I will have to disagree with this portion of your post.  In 1998 the U.S. Army Military Police decided that they needed bridge the gap between the basic riflemen and a SRT sniper.  So they decided to send about 200 MPs through a precision marksmen school.  The training was provided by the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit (USAMU), and luckily I was one of those selected to attend.  Over a three week period we were taught to engaged and hit man-size targets out to 800 meters.  This was all accomplished with 20” M16A2 rifles and Ball ammo.  There was nothing special about the rifles and the ammo was not match grade.  



The 5.56x45mm is an inherently accurate and predictable round out to an incredibly long range.  The majority of the training that we received was teaching us to trust our rifles.  Once an M16A2 has been properly zeroed to the shooter, they can be used to engage targets out to 800 meters.  That is why the rear sight aperture rotates up to 8/3.



The current version of this training is now a national program provided by the USAMU and it is titled the Squad Designated Marksmanship Course (SDM).  The training is conducted utilizing a 14.5” M4 carbine and troops are taught how to engaged and destroy targets out to 600 meters.



Today would I engaged a target that far away with my rifle, not likely, but it is nice to know that if I have to engaged targets that far away I will be able to hit them with the first round.



http://www.usaac.army.mil/amu/training/sdm.asp



True- but it also depends what you're trying to hit out at that range. Man size target, I'm sure a M16A2 w/ ball ammo would work fine. For varmint, target shooting, high power competition, 75/77/80gr match is the standard.



 
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 10:46:37 AM EDT
Take a look at the rifle D&L Sports used to put 20 rds in a 20 inch circle in 20 seconds at 1,000 yds.

I'd float a 24" Krieger 1:7 and load 77 gr SMKs.
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 3:13:59 PM EDT
The AMU uses National Match M-16A2's for 1000yd competitions. I know they were experimenting with the 90gr bullets, but the jackets were too thin and the bullets were coming apart. They settled on 80gr Sierra Match King's. 1000yds is pushing it for a 5.56 either way, the rounds are damn near subsonic at 1000yds and start to tumble. If you're serious about shooting that distance, use one of the oddball calibers mentioned earlier or the trusty 7.62.
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 5:25:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2011 5:28:39 PM EDT by 458winmag]
1,000 yards (as well as lesser ranges) is possible with a .223 based  cartridge.  
Special barrels, sights, bullets and reloads are required.  Chrome lining and ACOG' s need not apply.

Forgot a important part.
SKILL
A .22 will shoot over 1K
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 5:25:28 AM EDT
I shoot this at Reade to 1000 with 75-80gr bullet wts and iron sights:


26"Krieger 1:7.7" TR
It does not score as well as my 308 or 6.5-284 bolt guns but it scores very well against competitors shooting equal cartriges.
Spend your money on a good pipe and accurizing the upper. Spend your time working on bullets and reloading!
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 10:49:18 AM EDT
Thanks coldbore, advice well taken. Nice to know someone else sees the challenge of my build and the satisfaction of trying to get there! By the way that's a cool rifle.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 10:55:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By pmac6326:
Thanks coldbore, advice well taken. Nice to know someone else sees the challenge of my build and the satisfaction of trying to get there! By the way that's a cool rifle.


I totally get the challenge part of it.  That's why I have a .22LR that I shoot out to 400 yards.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 12:53:46 PM EDT
Sounds like a lot of fun. What kind of groups at that range?
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 1:04:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pmac6326:
Sounds like a lot of fun. What kind of groups at that range?


On a really really good day? About 6 or 7" but average about 10-12"
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 1:56:21 PM EDT
That's pretty awesome for a 22lr.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 2:20:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pmac6326:
That's pretty awesome for a 22lr.


Especially considering you need 80 MOA of hold over
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:15:28 AM EDT
An AR service rifle can get to 1000 yards with a 1-7 barrel and 80gr Matchkings or JLK or Berger VLD bullets.  The 77's or 75's can't get it done.  If you want to shoot out to 600 yards you can use up to a 1-8 with the Sierra or Nosler 80's and shoot 10 ring all day.  The 1000 yard shooting with the 223 is outer limits stuff because of the 20" barrel.  I would recommend the M110 platform for 1000 yard shooting in service rifle configuration (M118 LR or equivalent handloads).  It's approved for competition.  An AR in 223 in match rifle configuration 24-26" barrel is alot easier to shoot at 1000 than the service gun(sights are superior on a match gun).

Tom
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 10:43:02 AM EDT
<<<<<<< Has shot at prairie dogs at 1000 yards with a 16" AR
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 12:11:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By YoteSlayer69:
<<<<<<< Has shot at prairie dogs at 1000 yards with a 16" AR


1. Did they even know it?

2. If they did, did they bust out laughing and shake their dicks at you?


j/k  

Seriously though, how close did you get? Could you tell?
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 1:51:15 PM EDT
Hell it's a 5x7 brown dot on top of a small brown mound. I can't remember the dope exactly but it went something like. I'm out of up I'll have to hold a mil or two over it's head.... 5 to 6 hundred is much easier. My 16" AR is deadly on dogs within 500. At 1000 I'm not walking that far just to confirm I missed
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 1:53:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2011 1:57:59 PM EDT by InfiniteGrim]
24" Krieger barrel, but make sure its 5.56 so you can push for the fastest possible velocities.

Look on yourtube there are people getting consisent hits on man sized steel at 850 yards.

Link Posted: 4/29/2011 3:42:30 PM EDT
What about the Mk12 Mod0 and Mod1's?
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 4:53:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By StoleIt:
What about the Mk12 Mod0 and Mod1's?


What about them?
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 7:28:42 PM EDT
If you want high yardage with a accuracy and punch...AR-10, 7.62mm.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:14:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2011 6:15:44 AM EDT by BMPRacing]
Here is a link to my range report with a 26" WOA set up and my first round of steel plate thumping. I'm using Hornady 75 gr. BTHP's and have not tried the SMK's yet.

Range Report - 26" WOA Build

Brad

Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:23:59 AM EDT
what are ya'l talking about..???   the 5.56 regular geen tip millitary LC ammo and a M16-A2 service rifle "IN MY HANDS" hits the X ring at 500 meters everytime... Oooorah!

i'm sure if this man builds a match grade rifle with a longer than 20" match barrel, using handloads taylor'd to his rifle with a good bipod and "OPTICS" i dont see any reason why he should'nt be able to get hits out to 600-800yds,  we were tuaght an area sized target at 750meters with IRON A2 SIGHT'S im sure if he use's a 24" match barrel and Optics he should be able to produce hits at least 600-800yds...  at least you would want to think so...

 now i personaly wouldn't want to be hitting out that far with a 5.56 just becuase of the other more advanced options that are available today, (6.5 sporter/grendel)  just becuase i feel even though the 5.56 will get out that far i dont think the roound is an effective round that far, my personal limit for a 5.56 would have to be around the 500-600 max...  and thats only if thats what i have in my hands at the timne of the opertunity... if i know im going to be shooting at a distance longer than 300-400 im not even taking out the 5.56...  that would have to stay in the bag...  and im pulling out the 6.5

but to each there own...   i think it can be done...  id op for a 24"- 26" bull barrel fluted,  get everything profesionaly blueprinted,  and handload some good ammo, and have at it..  
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:29:00 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Direct-Drive:


Small frame - 6.5 Grendel

Large frame - 6.5 Creedmoor, 260 Rem, .308


This. if you want to shoot past 400 regularly than .556 is out.



 
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