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Posted: 4/28/2007 5:15:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2007 5:16:48 PM EDT by US-GUNS]
I would like to know is anybody made a 5.45x39 AR barrel or do I have to get a custom one
Link Posted: 4/28/2007 5:17:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/28/2007 6:08:50 PM EDT
Try to contact alexander arms. At one time they had a 5.45 upper. They may still have some barrels around or can make another run. I would love one also. Considering the price of the ammo right now.
Link Posted: 4/29/2007 12:30:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2007 12:32:57 PM EDT by coctailer]
.
Link Posted: 4/29/2007 12:31:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2007 12:33:15 PM EDT by coctailer]
height=8
Originally Posted By Jazzemt:
Try to contact alexander arms. At one time they had a 5.45 upper. They may still have some barrels around or can make another run. I would love one also. Considering the price of the ammo right now.

+1 Email me if you guys want to do a group buy. I bet a lot of us would like a couple.
Link Posted: 4/29/2007 4:22:59 PM EDT
I'm also interested in picking one up, what other modifications need to be made besides the barrel/chamber change out... I know mags will work, the complete lower should work, would I need a new bolt or are the dimensions of the case the same?
Link Posted: 4/29/2007 6:55:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2007 7:36:47 PM EDT by coctailer]
Link Posted: 4/29/2007 10:54:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2007 10:55:46 PM EDT by M4Joe]
KKF says they can do 5.45 barrels, look a the bottom of the page.

http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/catalog/item/29585/1132.htm

I've kind of been thinking about this idea too. I haven't called to see what kind of cash it will take to get the barrel yet.
Link Posted: 4/30/2007 8:11:52 AM EDT
I think it said something like 300 or some for a barrel and he can open up the bolt face to accept the bigger case
Link Posted: 5/1/2007 2:39:39 PM EDT


So figure 300 for the barrel, 40 for the bolt face work, and 260 for the rest of the upper parts fro $600 total?
Link Posted: 5/1/2007 2:43:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By coctailer:

Originally Posted By CA_TX-Cop:
I'm also interested in picking one up, what other modifications need to be made besides the barrel/chamber change out... I know mags will work, the complete lower should work, would I need a new bolt or are the dimensions of the case the same?

Aw crap!!!! I forgot about the bolt. I'll do some digging.

isn't 5.45x39 just a necked down 7.62x39 case? If that's so why wouldn't a 7.62x39 bolt work?
Link Posted: 5/1/2007 6:40:10 PM EDT
I don't think the width of the cases at the base are the same. 7.62 is a little bigger.
http://www.stevespages.com/jpg/cd762x39.jpg
http://www.stevespages.com/jpg/cd545x39m74.jpg
Link Posted: 5/2/2007 6:37:37 PM EDT
Working on it, guys. Email me if you are seriously interested. Feel free to pool resources
Link Posted: 5/2/2007 7:43:12 PM EDT
Man w/ 5.45 so cheap it would be sweet. You'd have to clean your AR more carefully as most 5.45 (the cheap stuff anyways) is corrosive somewhat. Also 5.45 really does some damage and it is a very flat shooting caliber!

I'd be interested to see what it does in a 18" FF'd HBAR. I bet it would be a nice tack driver. Question...what twist would be ideal?
Link Posted: 5/3/2007 5:40:07 AM EDT
Thought they were calling this thing: "221 Ghengis" or something when its in the AR platform. TTI might have made one too. Certain ammo is supposed to be devestating yet still a FMJ design. What about magazines?
Link Posted: 5/3/2007 5:32:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CBR900:
Thought they were calling this thing: "221 Ghengis" or something when its in the AR platform. TTI might have made one too. Certain ammo is supposed to be devestating yet still a FMJ design. What about magazines?


6.8 SPC mags should work just fine ...
Link Posted: 5/18/2007 8:35:13 AM EDT
Anyone find out anything about the whole group buy possibility?
Link Posted: 5/18/2007 9:52:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2007 9:53:32 AM EDT by Mark_Phelps]
height=8
Originally Posted By CA_TX-Cop:
Anyone find out anything about the whole group buy possibility?


Shoot MartytW a PM. I've been speaking with him personally about a Lothar Walther barrel in 5.45x39. Maybe he could discount the price a bit if enough of us were interested
Link Posted: 5/18/2007 11:13:42 AM EDT
I'm definitely interested in a barrel and bolt for 5.45x39. I've got an MGI upper on its way to Marty from MSI right now to open the ejection port up so I can later add a 458 SOCOM barrel. So maybe I can just have him add the 5.45x39 bolt & barrel while he has it.

The only reason I hadn't pursued it earlier was that I thought I'd have to wait for MGI to develope a new mag well for AK74 mags. If 6.8 mags will work in a regular AR15 lower mag well, then I'm good to go.

Of course, I'll still want an MGI mag well for AK74 mags as soon as they become available.
Link Posted: 5/19/2007 5:15:36 AM EDT
I am very interested in:

* a barrel
* a bolt
* and magazines

i would prefer the barrel to be a chromelined barrel but that maybe pretty hard to get done... if we can't get chromelined i'd like to see a SS barrel done...

Add me on the list :D
Link Posted: 5/19/2007 6:52:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MartytW:
Working on it, guys. Email me if you are seriously interested. Feel free to pool resources

E-mail sent.
Cash in hand.
Link Posted: 5/20/2007 3:13:46 AM EDT
some additional thoughts:

i believe that Alexander Arms actually just had replacement followers for M16 mags that allowed the use of the 5.45x39...

also... I think if we are going to make this worth it... it would be HIGHLY advised to get a chrome-lined barrel done...

AK74's have chrome-lined barrels for good reason... the ammo available in 5.45mm is not the cleanest... and the round its self isn't an accuracy whore... and I feel that most of us want a 5.45mm for ammo availability reasons...

So at this point I have my doubts that we can get this project done... between getting bolts (hopefully MP tested), chrome-lined barrels, and very reliable magazines I have my doubts... But I'm a pessimist so what do i know :D

Also, what gives you the thought that 6.8 Mags will work with 5.45x39?

I do have a dream though... if we were able to get all three hurdles jumped over perfectly...

1) chrome-lined barrel
2) Bolts (hopefully MP tested)
3) Mags

having an AR with the same relative accuracy as the M4, LESS RECOIL, and the price of ammo as such that it would pay for its self over time...

the only negatives I can see with switching to 5.45x39 once we get the three issues solved is local ammo availability is somewhat limited... but so is 556 now a days :(... and that problem can be over came by just buying and stocking up....

also, the lack of match / high quality ammo... and the step backwards in terminal ballistics... but a hit through the vitals is a hit through the vitals... we all can't shoot .308 AMAX bullets every time we pull the trigger either... and since the cost factor of being able to shoot more for less will allow for one to be able to shoot their weapon more... they'll become better shots with it...

Link Posted: 5/22/2007 5:57:57 AM EDT
I just finished building a 14.5 and a 10.5 using Lothar Walther SS Polygonal units. For bolts I used 5.56 bolts which I opened up the faces on. I'm using our short stroke piston system on these. I test fired 60 rounds through each this morning without any issues. As far as mags are concerned USGI 5.56 nor CP 6.8 or 5.56 mags don't work past 10 rounds. HK 5.56 mags work without any issue even when loaded to 30 rounds.
Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 5/22/2007 7:47:09 AM EDT
Interesting. Thanks Jesse!
Link Posted: 5/22/2007 11:49:50 AM EDT
Interesting. I would like a 5.45 upper myself.
Link Posted: 5/22/2007 11:52:31 AM EDT
Count me in if you get a group buy going I could always use another 5.45x39 upper.
Link Posted: 5/22/2007 12:03:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MartytW:
Working on it, guys. Email me if you are seriously interested. Feel free to pool resources

I sent an email the other day in reference to another similiar thread.

Chrome lining is going to be the tough part for a small run... and it's going to be needed with the corrosive ammo. Stainless would probably work too but stainless would probably mean heavier profile barrels.

As far as twist rate, anyone have a -74 barrel they can measure? With the length of the bullet design it's probably pretty fast. As far as barrel design, I would go with a medium profile midlength 16" barrel, unless for some reason the pressure characteristics wouldn't work with midlength.
Link Posted: 5/22/2007 4:17:00 PM EDT
Curious.

Any guesses on longevity of the 5.45 ammo supply? If it's possible to mash up an upper for roughly what a WASR-2 would cost it makes sense, but I don't see reloading 5.45...
Link Posted: 5/22/2007 8:09:37 PM EDT
ok, so what would we do for magazines, if we could pull off a barrel and bolt deal?
Link Posted: 5/22/2007 8:29:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2007 8:30:41 PM EDT by Resq47]
According to the above poster the HK's run fine. So buy used HK mags from the gotta have it guys that are selling to buy PMags
Link Posted: 5/22/2007 9:18:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2007 9:18:21 PM EDT by GLHX2112]
Ok, got it, for some reason I was thinking of the whole mess with 9mm, and adapters, and sten mags (or uzzi mags) and all the other silly things involved. As long as I can use a standard lower receiver (standard mag well), that is cool. Thanks for the clarification
Link Posted: 5/23/2007 3:43:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gamma762:

Originally Posted By MartytW:
Working on it, guys. Email me if you are seriously interested. Feel free to pool resources

I sent an email the other day in reference to another similiar thread.

Chrome lining is going to be the tough part for a small run... and it's going to be needed with the corrosive ammo. Stainless would probably work too but stainless would probably mean heavier profile barrels.

As far as twist rate, anyone have a -74 barrel they can measure? With the length of the bullet design it's probably pretty fast. As far as barrel design, I would go with a medium profile midlength 16" barrel, unless for some reason the pressure characteristics wouldn't work with midlength.


+1 on the Stainless 16" mid-weight with mid length gas system and M-4 barrel extension.

Because Com Block quality problems, the AK-47 uses 1-10" which is waaay overboard for a .311 123 gr bullet. I understand the Colt 7.62 1-12" shoot very well and I bet 1-14" would too.

Rather than copy AK-74 twist rates, I'd rather have the barrel provider select the twist that would be most appropriate for a 5.45x39 bullet loaded and fired in a 5.56. If the heaviest available ammo is in the 69 to 70gr range, I'd prefer 1-9" to whatever is in an AK-74.
Link Posted: 5/23/2007 7:22:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2007 7:25:56 PM EDT by jar3ds]
i would agree... 1x9 seems pretty ideal, maybe a 1x8...... it seems like a lot of the ak74's are 1x200mm which is 1x7.9 or so....
Link Posted: 5/23/2007 7:29:58 PM EDT
too bad we couldn't retro fit this puppy

www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16659&cat=274&page=1
Link Posted: 5/23/2007 8:05:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jar3ds:
i would agree... 1x9 seems pretty ideal, maybe a 1x8...... it seems like a lot of the ak74's are 1x200mm which is 1x7.9 or so....


Barrel blanks can be had in 1 in 7.7 and 1 in 10, 4 groove, as well as 1 in 8.1 ...

As to retrofitting that Bulgy barrel, we're looking to see what can be done ... but prospects seem not very good at this time ... for one, the gas block journal is WAY smaller than any AR version, and would require a custom gas block ...
Link Posted: 5/24/2007 4:30:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MartytW:

Originally Posted By jar3ds:
i would agree... 1x9 seems pretty ideal, maybe a 1x8...... it seems like a lot of the ak74's are 1x200mm which is 1x7.9 or so....


Barrel blanks can be had in 1 in 7.7 and 1 in 10, 4 groove, as well as 1 in 8.1 ...

As to retrofitting that Bulgy barrel, we're looking to see what can be done ... but prospects seem not very good at this time ... for one, the gas block journal is WAY smaller than any AR version, and would require a custom gas block ...


For those intending to use the barrels with FF handguards and handguard rail mounted BUIS (like me), the gas block could be a simple cylindrical part with two non-concentric holes in it. One for the barrel and one blind hole for the gas tube. Then 2 set screw hole on the bottom, one of which lined up to allow drilling the gas port between the barrel bore and the gas tube bore.

Alternately, as a more universal solution, use the largest bore standard AR gas block and press in or silver solder in an aluminum sleeve with the necessary matching cross holes for gas port and set screw holes. If press fit were used, the outer surface of the sleeve could be lightly knurled to allow a workable press fit with the variable tolerances of the gas block.
Link Posted: 5/24/2007 5:46:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brazos_Jack:
For those intending to use the barrels with FF handguards and handguard rail mounted BUIS (like me), the gas block could be a simple cylindrical part with two non-concentric holes in it. One for the barrel and one blind hole for the gas tube. Then 2 set screw hole on the bottom, one of which lined up to allow drilling the gas port between the barrel bore and the gas tube bore.

Alternately, as a more universal solution, use the largest bore standard AR gas block and press in or silver solder in an aluminum sleeve with the necessary matching cross holes for gas port and set screw holes. If press fit were used, the outer surface of the sleeve could be lightly knurled to allow a workable press fit with the variable tolerances of the gas block.


WAY ahead of you. We have custom SS or CrMo gas blocks like you describe. Just that compared to the cost of an OTS A2 FSB, some folks don't want the extra expense ... For the sleeve inserts, we prefer to use steel as thin Al is more prone to erosion even when anodized. Gas port pressures can be quite high.

For barrels made from blanks, we will naturally use AR specifications. On the Bulgy barrel, question is whether head space will be workable between AK bolt and AR bolt. Remains to be seen.
Link Posted: 5/24/2007 3:47:23 PM EDT
Major tag. I'm very interested if the price is within my reach.
Link Posted: 5/26/2007 5:59:44 AM EDT
any thoughts on what chamber to use on these barrels guys? I'd like something that is similar to a wylde chamber but for 5.45 obviously... maybe something in between a standard chamber and a wylde chamber.. since we don't really expect match ammo with this round :)....

What is the best source for 6.8 mags right now (cheapest/highest quality)... thanks!
Link Posted: 5/26/2007 6:21:20 AM EDT
I am interested as well... 1:8.1 would be the best for the round...
Link Posted: 5/26/2007 6:25:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2007 6:27:58 AM EDT by Quarterbore]

Originally Posted By MartytW:
Working on it, guys. Email me if you are seriously interested. Feel free to pool resources



Originally Posted By MartytW:

Originally Posted By jar3ds:
i would agree... 1x9 seems pretty ideal, maybe a 1x8...... it seems like a lot of the ak74's are 1x200mm which is 1x7.9 or so....


Barrel blanks can be had in 1 in 7.7 and 1 in 10, 4 groove, as well as 1 in 8.1 ...

As to retrofitting that Bulgy barrel, we're looking to see what can be done ... but prospects seem not very good at this time ... for one, the gas block journal is WAY smaller than any AR version, and would require a custom gas block ...


These are .221 bore, right?
Link Posted: 5/26/2007 2:14:51 PM EDT
Marty,

I sent you several emails in regards to the potential for a 5.45 barrel per your comment that I should email you direct, but either your spam filter is catching them or my spam filter is catching the responses.

In either case, what is the ballpark price for a bolt and barrel in this caliber? I build and barrel AR's all the time, the only thing I am not equippped for is actually chambereing the barrel.bolt for 5.45. You can PM me or email me fiyou don't want to discuss pricing in this thread.

Sven

aka Dawg180

Link Posted: 5/26/2007 3:38:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:

Originally Posted By MartytW:
Working on it, guys. Email me if you are seriously interested. Feel free to pool resources



Originally Posted By MartytW:

Originally Posted By jar3ds:
i would agree... 1x9 seems pretty ideal, maybe a 1x8...... it seems like a lot of the ak74's are 1x200mm which is 1x7.9 or so....


Barrel blanks can be had in 1 in 7.7 and 1 in 10, 4 groove, as well as 1 in 8.1 ...

As to retrofitting that Bulgy barrel, we're looking to see what can be done ... but prospects seem not very good at this time ... for one, the gas block journal is WAY smaller than any AR version, and would require a custom gas block ...


These are .221 bore, right?


.221 specific for use with 5.45 x 39
Link Posted: 5/26/2007 5:13:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2007 5:30:29 PM EDT by CA_TX-Cop]
Sold two guns at the gunshow today, got money burning a hole in my pocket for these parts...

so should we buy the 6.8 mags now? or will the 223 mags work just fine up to about 15 or 18 rounds?

and I don't know if we get to vote or not, but M4 in SS would look NICE, and make it easily distinguishable from my other rifles...
Link Posted: 5/26/2007 10:25:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CA_TX-Cop:
Sold two guns at the gunshow today, got money burning a hole in my pocket for these parts...

so should we buy the 6.8 mags now? or will the 223 mags work just fine up to about 15 or 18 rounds?

and I don't know if we get to vote or not, but M4 in SS would look NICE, and make it easily distinguishable from my other rifles...


Earlier it was noted HK 30 rounders work good.
Link Posted: 5/26/2007 10:40:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2007 10:42:36 PM EDT by Hebrew_Battle_Rifle]
AR upper chambered for 5.45X39mm with appropriate sized bore? If you build it, they will sell.

As for me, I just need an AR barrel bored and chambered for 5.45X39mm. I'll take care of the rest. It doesn't have to be chrome lined or even stainless, but stainless would be nice.
Link Posted: 5/26/2007 10:45:16 PM EDT
I'd be in for a complete upper.
Link Posted: 5/27/2007 5:06:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Marty,

I sent you several emails in regards to the potential for a 5.45 barrel per your comment that I should email you direct, but either your spam filter is catching them or my spam filter is catching the responses.

In either case, what is the ballpark price for a bolt and barrel in this caliber? I build and barrel AR's all the time, the only thing I am not equippped for is actually chambereing the barrel.bolt for 5.45. You can PM me or email me fiyou don't want to discuss pricing in this thread.

Sven

aka Dawg180


Sven/Dawg -

My spam filter acts weird, I do not have a means to adjust it from what I have tried (we are running 3 different programs to keep out stuff and perhaps it gets caught somewhere). The ARFCOM EMail link DOES appear to come thru so try that one. To adhere to ARFCOM policy, I cannot discuss pricing in these posts (at this time, hope to change that shortly). This first set of barrels are top shelf SS so they will be a little higher price grade. Our Gen 2 solution we hope to have it more economical. IF it works, y'all might like it ....

Marty
Link Posted: 5/27/2007 6:07:48 AM EDT
i know we are over the barrel and magazine hump... but what about the bolts? Any progress that way? Thanks! (i'm very excited about this project)
Link Posted: 5/27/2007 3:14:46 PM EDT
Loaded up some Orlite mags today with 5.45x39, they take 10 rounds only, haven't tried the aluminum ones yet.

I'm really thinking about getting two barrels to have one for later, but if Marty thinks the 2nd run of barrels will be more cost affordable I may wait for #2
Link Posted: 5/27/2007 5:15:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2007 5:17:17 PM EDT by PolyTechKID]
I'm very interested in this, more so the #2 barrel with chrome lining if it becomes available.

Polytech
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