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Posted: 6/25/2017 9:49:10 PM EDT
Found some at 3300 FPS. (I presume a 20in barrel) How good would this be for short barrels?  I am thinking 2850 from an 11.5 and 2800 from a 10.5, so those of you who know such things, would this be a 100 yard round and give good penetration and expansion? A good deer and varmint round out of 16in barrels?
Link Posted: 6/25/2017 10:38:38 PM EDT
It's design to explode so don't expect much penetration.
Link Posted: 6/25/2017 10:45:15 PM EDT
Hit a coyote that ran my dog on the porch from about 50ft above the right shoulder and the entry had very little blood. The exit wound on the other hand was way different. He ran about 15ft and DRT.
Link Posted: 6/25/2017 11:15:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
It's design to explode so don't expect much penetration.
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So it's good for varmints and maybe deer? Not so much as a defensive round?
Link Posted: 6/25/2017 11:18:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By KnifeCollector:


So it's good for varmints and maybe deer? Not so much as a defensive round?
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Vermin yes. Deer no, unless you like lead fragments and bloodshot meat. Self defense, no.
Link Posted: 6/25/2017 11:26:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Vermin yes. Deer no, unless you like lead fragments and bloodshot meat. Self defense, no.
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Why not self-defense? Gel vids and tests on meats seemed to show it was pretty decent.
Link Posted: 6/25/2017 11:44:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By green_bullet:


Why not self-defense? Gel vids and tests on meats seemed to show it was pretty decent.
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Poor penetration.
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 12:15:21 AM EDT
Yep, penetration isn't good on larger animals. For most varmints, it has explosive results though!

This is my go to groundhog round. I'd pick a softpoint for a deer.

The hornady TAP round has popularity here for defense.
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 12:29:27 AM EDT
Terrible for deer. Will make a mess and lead bits everywhere.

Varmints sure.

Defense also good. Depending on your backdrop, walls of your home and or woodedness of your property

Though may not be the round of choice for a super fat bad-guy, but let's be honest most bad guys are skinny-ass druggies.
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 12:38:50 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By RealFitness86:
Terrible for deer. Will make a mess and lead bits everywhere.

Varmints sure.

Defense also good. Depending on your backdrop, walls of your home and or woodedness of your property

Though may not be the round of choice for a super fat bad-guy, but let's be honest most bad guys are skinny-ass druggies.
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Bad info all around.

Tell us more about bad guys subject matter expert. What is your background in law enforcement?
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 12:47:23 AM EDT
so what's a good self defense round?
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 1:18:23 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By vicious_cb:
Bad info all around.

Tell us more about bad guys subject matter expert. What is your background in law enforcement?
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Originally Posted By vicious_cb:
Originally Posted By RealFitness86:
Terrible for deer. Will make a mess and lead bits everywhere.

Varmints sure.

Defense also good. Depending on your backdrop, walls of your home and or woodedness of your property

Though may not be the round of choice for a super fat bad-guy, but let's be honest most bad guys are skinny-ass druggies.
Bad info all around.

Tell us more about bad guys subject matter expert. What is your background in law enforcement?
Penis measuring contest?

The round has been well documented in Gel tests, and anyone who knows anything knows that 15" is the prime penetration for defense.
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 1:27:47 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By coyotl:
so what's a good self defense round?
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Depends where you are and how likely you are to have a few seconds warning.

If your defending your house in an urban area, your going to want very low penetration rounds (preferably that fragment when they hit drywall)

If your defending your ranch on 40 acres that's very different.


Urban:
Hornady TAP urban 5.56 55gr
12 Gauge #4 shot
45 GAP Hydrashock

Country:
Hornady TAP 75gr
12 Gauge 00 buckshot
9mm any quality hollow point
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 1:39:12 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By RealFitness86:


Penis measuring contest?

The round has been well documented in Gel tests, and anyone who knows anything knows that 15" is the prime penetration for defense.
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No, but I have a problem with bad info that can get people killed.

Because 55gr VMAX has "15" of prime penetration for defense" right?



http://www.hornadyle.com/products/rifle-ammunition/223-remington/55-gr-tap-urban

Link Posted: 6/26/2017 1:40:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2017 1:42:33 AM EDT by vicious_cb]
dbl post
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 1:47:25 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By RealFitness86:


Penis measuring contest?

The round has been well documented in Gel tests, and anyone who knows anything knows that 15" is the prime penetration for defense.
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What's it do when you're shooting through an arm bone and heavy clothing or a car door or a loaded rifle magazine?
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 1:52:29 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By vicious_cb:
No, but I have a problem with bad info that can get people killed.

Because 55gr VMAX has "15" of prime penetration for defense" right?



http://www.hornadyle.com/products/rifle-ammunition/223-remington/55-gr-tap-urban

http://www.hornadyle.com/assets/site/images/gelatins/bare/83276.jpg
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Originally Posted By vicious_cb:
Originally Posted By RealFitness86:


Penis measuring contest?

The round has been well documented in Gel tests, and anyone who knows anything knows that 15" is the prime penetration for defense.
No, but I have a problem with bad info that can get people killed.

Because 55gr VMAX has "15" of prime penetration for defense" right?



http://www.hornadyle.com/products/rifle-ammunition/223-remington/55-gr-tap-urban

http://www.hornadyle.com/assets/site/images/gelatins/bare/83276.jpg
Of course not.

It's a reduced penetration round to reduce the likelyhood of innocents being hit by over-penetration in dense areas.

It's not the best stopper, but a fine choice in the right environment.
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 1:55:21 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


What's it do when you're shooting through an arm bone and heavy clothing or a car door or a loaded rifle magazine?
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Yea that's what I'm saying, that round only does 10" which is well below the 15" ideal.

Also good point that in a tactical setting more than 15" can be good too

The 15" ideal is for self defense against criminals (not a combat environment with guys wearing mags etc)
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 9:08:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 11:15:37 AM EDT
I've seen gel tests where the varmiting ammo that we eschew turning into expanding and relatively decent penetrating ammo with short barrel velocities giving some interest in that stuff.  Slow it down enough, it expands rather than fragments from what I've seen in ammo tests online and in real life on a deer.

Sure, I handload and buy bonded soft point (Fed Fusion, the RMR 64 gr stuff, etc...) all I can, but I have a stash of 55 gr soft points that I've loaded up just for my 7.5 and 10.5 barreled guns for a long term storage solution when my bonded stuff runs out.

Ideal?  No.  Will it work?  High probability yes.  Will it work against barriers?  Likely not.  It's not the best but for a low cost, high volume, decent low velocity performer, I wouldn't throw it out with the bath water.  If you already have a good stash of a few loadouts of the premium stuff, why not stock up on a cheaper round for long term?  M193 and M855, while lower cost, doesn't expand or fragment reliably out of shorter barrels (though I have a good amount reserved for my 16 and 20" rifles).

That being said, the V-max isn't necessarily a low cost round/component, so I would not choose it over my Hornady 55 gr soft points I load and shoot by the thousands annually.  I would not suggest it for first line, but if you can get a lot of it cheap and have a few SBRs, why not?
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 1:41:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2017 1:43:45 PM EDT by AS556]
You guys are incorrect I hate to say. The 55gr Vmax does much better in short barrels than long ones.

Like virtually all designs do as speed goes down bullets expand less and penetrate more. At lower velocity the 55gr Vmax acts more as a controlled expansion SP so is a pretty good choice for a short barrel.

Out of a 16" its driven so fast it expands too quickly and comes up shy on penetration. Not the case out of a 10-11" barrel.

55gr Vmax in a 10" = good SD round.

55gr Vmax in 14.5-16" = varmints only.

You aren't going to get 2850 with a 55gr bullet in an 11" either unless its hot as hell.

.223 rem 55gr ball is right at 2900 in a 16".
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