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Posted: 4/12/2006 1:20:15 PM EST
What round is the 458 socom exactly. I tried searching the net and the only one I can find thats close is the 458 winchester mag. Are these the same round??
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 2:09:42 PM EST
The .458 SOCOM is the ".458 SOCOM" That is the name of the round - it was developed specifically for the AR-15 platform.

No it is not the same as the Winchester round.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 2:34:53 PM EST
I kind of thought the 458 wincester would be an ungly round in the AR-15. Can a get a link to a site that sells the 458 socom?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 2:51:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 2:52:35 PM EST by DeepBlue]
Corbon makes 'em. Seems to be frighteningly expensive though.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 2:51:46 PM EST
You must be new here. EVERYONE know Marty at Teppo Jutsu, the round developer, and Tony at TROMIX who helped with making the round work in the AR-15. I thought EVERYONE knew of Marty and Tony.
Ammo is available from Cor-Bon.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:31:26 PM EST
Think of the bullet from a 45-70 with FMJ in a cartridge that fits in a 223 mag.... the bolt is essentially a modified 7.62x39mm unit. Teppo Jutsu did it right and quite well!
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:38:58 PM EST
Starline is making brass for it.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:39:32 PM EST
I have a Tromix 458SOCOM upper and it is awesome! It is a 50AE case with a slightly rebated rim necked down to .458 and it hits like a hammer!

If you dont reload you should start.

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:35:59 PM EST
For the visual learners:








And the .458SOCOM will shoot 1 moa.

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:06:27 PM EST
whats the muzzle energy of the 458 compared to the 5.56. It looks like it could take down a wilderbeast.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:56:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
For the visual learners:

i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/AFreeMan/11458Scm.jpg



And the .458SOCOM will shoot 1 moa.




Well for the visual learners who need text support...
Could you label each of the rounds shown? Looks like Corbon 300 gr, Barnes 350 gr X, next is maybe 450 bronze solid???, then a 500gr soft-point???, this next one is what makes me so curious!!! Looks interesting - like a soft point with a polymer support? I have no clue! Last one is a 600gr solid??

I just ordered some Corbon 600gr's. And will order some brass from Starline MOnday. Picked up some 300gr X bullets to load.
Oh yeah, will be ordering dies from Hornady on Monday, too.

I'm new to .458 SOCOM land - just got mine march 31. Have shot 60 rounds and I love it! .223 is great, but .458 is like 6 times the fun - or is that weight???

BTW Free_Man... is that high rail on yours part of the upper or is it "clamp-on"? And what is that at the rear of your upper - can't tell in the picture, but looks like a curved reinforced area??? Other than that it looks just like mine.

Frank79: Buy one and enjoy!
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 8:32:01 PM EST
What's the recoil like on these?
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 9:22:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2006 9:24:38 PM EST by A_Free_Man]
I expected Marty to chime in with what is what with the ammo.

power-plant: That is Marty's rifle in the picture with the rounds in the mags.

FYI--The .458 will single stack 10 rounds in a USGI 30 rnd mag, and single stack 7 rounds in a USGI 20 rnd mag.

The vest was shot up by the local Sheriff's Dept. They like it! The .458 Socom upper they used actually belonged to one of my sons. The same upper (assembled on a lower) was reviewed by Shooting Times.

ETA-- and the Sheriff's Dept used one of my Eotechs on it... which came through with flying colors.

Recoil, let me put it this way, they recommend you use only an A1 or A2 fixed stock. It will break the latch on adjustable stocks.

It is capable of taking down big game, including some on the African plains. I would wonder about bringing this along as compared to the usual bolt action or double rifle.



Link Posted: 4/14/2006 10:09:29 PM EST
Big game? But isn't the .458 really a pistol cartridge?
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 12:10:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Frank79:
whats the muzzle energy of the 458 compared to the 5.56. It looks like it could take down a wilderbeast.



Think 45-70 factory loads and you have a good idea
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 12:11:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/15/2006 12:12:40 AM EST by uafgrad]

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
What's the recoil like on these?



Mine feel about like 12g buckshot or reduced recoil slug
Certainly not enough to stop me from shooting it for a full day


Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
Big game? But isn't the .458 really a pistol cartridge?



Nope
The parent case so to say was a 50AE, but it is longer and has more volume.
It is comparable to a 45-70, only a lot more fun
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 5:42:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
Big game? But isn't the .458 really a pistol cartridge?


No, unless you think a .45-70 is a pistol cartridge.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 7:44:05 PM EST
My first T/C Contender was a 45-70 with a 12" barrel.SJR556.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 5:27:38 AM EST
The .458socom is not a 50ae case. The SOCOM case is 1.575" long, the .50AE is 1.290" so therefore, you CANNOT form the SOCOM case from the AE case.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 6:49:22 AM EST
The only parent case you could use to make a .458 SOCOM cartridge, would be the .425 Westley Richards.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 7:43:54 AM EST
and considering they are around $4 for ONE CASE. it's not very economical.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 7:44:01 AM EST
405 grain flat points run about 1550 fps out of my 14.5 inch barrel (muzzle brake brings it out to 17 inches) Tromix carbine....I have shot 300 grain HPs to 600 grain SPs through it.....a whole lot of fun!

Tony Rumore is the Tromix Sledgehammer man! thing shoots great!
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:51:12 PM EST
I was just computing the Taylor Knockout values of some rounds


.223 62gr. 3100fps = 6

.30-06 180 gr. 2750fps = 21

.458 socom 405gr 1550 fps= 41

.470 nitro express 500gr 2150 fps = 72


A cartridge with a TKO of about 40 or above could incapacitate a charging elephant, depending on shot placement.


The .458 socom would even scare elephants
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 7:30:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By power-plant:

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
For the visual learners:

i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/AFreeMan/11458Scm.jpg



And the .458SOCOM will shoot 1 moa.




Well for the visual learners who need text support...
Could you label each of the rounds shown? Looks like Corbon 300 gr, Barnes 350 gr X, next is maybe 450 bronze solid???, then a 500gr soft-point???, this next one is what makes me so curious!!! Looks interesting - like a soft point with a polymer support? I have no clue! Last one is a 600gr solid??

I just ordered some Corbon 600gr's. And will order some brass from Starline MOnday. Picked up some 300gr X bullets to load.
Oh yeah, will be ordering dies from Hornady on Monday, too.

I'm new to .458 SOCOM land - just got mine march 31. Have shot 60 rounds and I love it! .223 is great, but .458 is like 6 times the fun - or is that weight???

BTW Free_Man... is that high rail on yours part of the upper or is it "clamp-on"? And what is that at the rear of your upper - can't tell in the picture, but looks like a curved reinforced area??? Other than that it looks just like mine.

Frank79: Buy one and enjoy!



Sorry, I was in the shop playing with some new stuff ....

The rounds shown:
1 - Remington 300 gr JHP as loaded by CorBon
2 - Barnes 300 gr X Spitzer
3 - Barnes 400 gr RN Solid
4 - Hornady 500 gr RN - subsonic load
5 - Barnes 600 gr Original - subsonic load. I dip these in "Case Black" so I can tell them apart from the 500 gr loads ....
6 - Speer 500 gr AGS-T. These have a tungsten carbine penetrator and cost $140 for 20 bullets ... but they tore through milspec 46100 armor (.25"), cleaner holes than the 50 BMG ...

The upper in the picture is built on a DPMS Hi Rise upper receiver, all that is done is enlarge the ejection port.

Aside from ARs, this little beauty has been chambered in several bolt guns, one T/C and several AKs ...

Look for more loads to become available later this year, as well as some interesting accessories ...
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 8:38:44 PM EST
Whats the knockout power of a .50 BMG?

Another question, whats the largest rifle cartridge commericially available to civilians? I mean i know there are 20mm machine guns and stuff, but I hear you guys spitting out terms like 470 nitro express and have no idea what you're talking about.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 6:34:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By James_Brown:
Whats the knockout power of a .50 BMG?

Another question, whats the largest rifle cartridge commericially available to civilians? I mean i know there are 20mm machine guns and stuff, but I hear you guys spitting out terms like 470 nitro express and have no idea what you're talking about.



To get the knock value i'll need a theoretical bullet weight and veloicty. The .470 nitro exprees is a large game round. Civilians can get it, but its quite rare and expensive. Nitro express also makes a .500 and .600 caliber. I think the largest I have heard of ( and this may be just a myth) is the .700 nitro express.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:41:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By DeepBlue:
Corbon makes 'em. Seems to be frighteningly expensive though.



Understatement.....
But thats gotta be the high end hunting ammo... isn't there anywhere else I can get 458 for a wee bit less? Any of you reloaders willing to sell some on the side? I have my eye on the RRA .458 SOCOM but I'm not paying that much for ammo.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:55:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By FivespeedF150:

Originally Posted By DeepBlue:
Corbon makes 'em. Seems to be frighteningly expensive though.



Understatement.....
But thats gotta be the high end hunting ammo... isn't there anywhere else I can get 458 for a wee bit less? Any of you reloaders willing to sell some on the side?
I have my eye on the RRA .458 SOCOM but I'm not paying that much for ammo.



Things are in the works... can't say more
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:25:14 PM EST
How does it compare with the Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf? I have one of these and it is fun to shoot. Recoil isn't that bad either.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 3:41:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/18/2006 3:46:44 AM EST by TonyRumore]
James Brown, I am not sure what you mean by "knockdown" power, but we can apply the Taylor Knock Out (TKO) formula which was used in the past to measure the game taking ability of large African game.

.223 6 TKO
.308 18 TKO
.458 SOCOM 39 TKO
12ga Slug 71 TKO
50 BMG 142 TKO

You can find the TKO factor calculator here>>>>>>>> http://sst.benchrest.com/

Link Posted: 4/18/2006 10:31:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/18/2006 10:32:11 AM EST by James_Brown]

Originally Posted By Frank79:

Originally Posted By James_Brown:
Whats the knockout power of a .50 BMG?

Another question, whats the largest rifle cartridge commericially available to civilians? I mean i know there are 20mm machine guns and stuff, but I hear you guys spitting out terms like 470 nitro express and have no idea what you're talking about.



To get the knock value i'll need a theoretical bullet weight and veloicty. The .470 nitro exprees is a large game round. Civilians can get it, but its quite rare and expensive. Nitro express also makes a .500 and .600 caliber. I think the largest I have heard of ( and this may be just a myth) is the .700 nitro express.



Hmmmm. Thanks for the info guys. I'm rather naive to big game hunting and hunting cartridges but wouldn't anything over 50 caliber need a Destructive Device stamp? Assuming i'm correct that a 50 caliber is equal to a half inch? I thought that I read in the ATF "laws" that anything over a half inch that isn't a shot gun needs a tax stamp.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 3:15:13 PM EST
No, that is incorrect. Only arms over 50 caliber that are deemed not to be for sporting purposes by the ATF are DD's. A hunting arm, like a 700 nitro, is a sporting gun, so it is exempt from being a DD. I asked them.



Link Posted: 4/18/2006 10:12:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By TonyRumore:
No, that is incorrect. Only arms over 50 caliber that are deemed not to be for sporting purposes by the ATF are DD's. A hunting arm, like a 700 nitro, is a sporting gun, so it is exempt from being a DD. I asked them.






Correct. There are actually quite a number of rifles with projectiles that are over .510 diameter that have the sporting use exemption. Some relatively popular calibers for DG hunting include 585, 600, 620 amd 700 caliber designation. Note that 20mm is not much bigger than the .700 but again, what matters is the exemption. When designing a cartridge over .50 cal, you submit it to BATFE for review and request the exemption, if granted, great, if not, DD and 200 Tax Stamp. Those are not that uncommon, note that 20mm Lathi are sold relatively easily
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 10:39:13 PM EST
.
Link Posted: 4/19/2006 6:49:25 AM EST

Things are in the works... can't say more


Marty you tease.
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