O.K. guys,

Let’s use this thread to share information about the Barnes 300 gr. TTSX….as it relates to the .458 SOCOM.

I’d like to start by pointing out one feature of the TTSX that makes it VERY different from other 300 gr. offerings….namely its length. While the TTSX  may weigh exactly the same as certain bullets, the “profile” results in it having what I call.. a lot of “Ass End”.

When seated to a COAL of 2.25”…. the depth of the bullet (inside the case) is appreciably greater than any other 300 grain I’ve yet used. We now know where all that “AE” went, right?

The significance of this is: You have less internal space for the powder… and pressures WILL rise if you try to use suggested load data for another 300 gr. bullet (as a starting point).

In the pic below…you can see what I am talking about (don’t you love visuals). Despite the camera angle skewing the true position of the bullets, each is laid out according to proper OAL.



In this next pic, you can see that even the Remington 405 gr. SP (weighing 105 grs. more than the TTSX) does not take up as much room as the TTSX.



Now….let me say this, all that “AE” is not necessarily a bad thing. The bullet shoots very well…. and I am dead certain the engineers at Barnes know a thing or two more about what makes a good bullet… than I do.

I just want to make certain that everyone understands… the TTSX is a “different cat” and certain precautions must be considered when loading it.

With that said, the thread is open for discussion.


Flint.

It seems there has been a lot of discussion about this particular bullet lately.  I sure thank you for your input, with this thread, my IMs, and the other threads you have started about favorite bullets/loads.



BTW, I think that it is because of your favorite bullets/loads thread that people are so intrigued with the TTSX.  I know that was what first turned me on to it.  So maybe all of these questions lately are your own fault.  

I really cant wait to see the affects of the bullet on deer this fall.

See, that's just not fair. I was going to start working on loads for my rem 405's then I see this. Now that I have load data for it I have to go get some 300gr TTSX's. Thanks a lot.

Flintknapper ; Do you have a photo of a TTSX that is Bisected to show the interior like you did with the CT?

tag for  later reply..

I can, but there wouldn't really be anything to look at.

Its just an all copper bullet with a poly-tip covering the hollow point.

Knowing this bullet took up more case space and that the bullet was different shaped from the stock 300 grain bullets available I loaded some rounds I assumed were reduced loads for this particular bullet.  

I worked up some loads using the 300 Grain Barnes TAC using H110 for last weekend sight in..  I loaded 32 grains of H110 and by far they seemed to shoot great.  I didn't see any pressure signs but now I am concern after seeing this post.  Any feelings about such a load.  It shot great, one ragged hole at 100 yards and I was planning to hunt deer with it this year.  

Boy I wish the 458 board was backup and running.  I never know where to post questions like this these days.

Nice post, I can't believe you would butcher a .458S case for those pics. Those 300TTSX are pretty long, huh!

While I don't have the Quickload that contains the TTSX, I do have the TSX and it's easy to compensate for the tip by setting the overall length to 2".

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4466/300tsx2inoalpage1.jpg

You need a longer action.

LOL.  There is an article from a BP shooter who is using the TTSX in sabots and loving the results... talk about unexpected consequences...

I guess I'm not following you here FJ,

Are you submitting this as a "warning" against doing so, or as a suggestion to do so?

The area of concern with the TTSX is with the added length at the base, not the tip.  If I am misunderstanding your post....I apologize.

Scud missile.

I tell you what.
I don't shoot the 458 socom anymore, but I am glad you helped develop this bullet.

It makes a really nice light load heavy hitter.

I am running it over 56 gr of RL 7 in a 21 " barrel.
Should be at about 2300 fps or so.
Have not chronoed it yet though.

Going swamping for hogs in a few days and will report back.

I was playing around with a 458 American to run in a short action,
but decided to go for the regular 458 WM on a long action for a DG
rifle.  

My daughter and her husband were headed for Tanzania but that has been put on hold for now.
Maybe AK if the economy ever picks up and I start making some $ again.

You can add bullets in QL
You just need the length then set the bullet base and weight.

I wasn't really commenting on your post but you are absolutely correct.  Seating deeper in the case causes higher pressures with the same loads. Quickload is a handy tool for these types of issues because you can adjust the bullet seating depth in the program and have it give you a theoretical pressure for that given bullet depth.  The .jpg I posted is the hypothetical Quickload result for different maximum powder charges for a 300gr TSX seated to an overall length of 2.0" which would simulate a 300gr TTSX at 2.25" OAL.  The data is just a reference and should not be used without thorough experience and/or in conjunction with other published data.

Oh, as for the warning in the right hand side of the column, that's just Quickload reminding you that it's not a load you should use because it's at the maximum of the load range.  One should probably use a load somewhere below the maximum to account for differences in powder lots and shooting conditions.  I generally run the maximums, compare that with published data when possible and adjust accordingly.  When published data is not available, it's good to compare Quickload to at least some comparable data and adjust down and work up accordingly.

I was curious if you've developed a load for the 300gr TTSX and whether or not Quickload is in the ballpark to what you may have found.

I have been using QL for probably about 4 years and IMO its wrong more than its right.

Some of the more normal combination of cartridges, powder and bullet are very close, then there are others
that are miles off.

Lately I have been loading 308 with 208 gr Amaxes over 48.7 gr of RL 17. It is a hot load and probably right at max but I am getting no brass flow.
Primers are fairly flat.
QL returns 72.5K for that load and its not even close to that high.

Had issues with other cartridges too like the 6.5g and 6.8 spc and a few others.

I called Hodgdon and talked to them about an odd load I was working on and they said they never use QL and Its wrong more than its right.

Still it is a decent tool and can give you some additional data beyond whats published.
Its nice for wildcats in that it gives you a general idea of where to start but I would be very cautious using max loads out of QL.
That said it does seem to be more on the conservative side as far as errors.

For some reason almost every barnes bullet I have run through QL is off. Seems to be that in QL when bullets are seated deep in the case it
shifts into safety mode.

FIGJAM wrote:


Got ya!
I understand the comparison now.


Yes, I have a couple of loads for it....and oddly QL wasn't even close (when using RE7) for this bullet.


Other QL predictions using a different bullet....have been "in the ball park" (usually 75 fps).

This is a very informative thread and I can tell you it is spot on.  I first started working with the .458S using the 300 gr. X (now TSX) bullet with a max load of 34.5 gr.(H110) and was getting about 1800 fps.  When I started shooting the TTSX I foolishly used the same load info.  From the first start load shot I could tell things were not right.  Flattened primers in a .458Socom, I don't think so and that was at the start load for the 300 gr. X bullet.
See, even after 42 years of loading you can get into trouble by thinking you know more than you do.
The max load for the TTSX bullet is only 31.5 gr (H110), and at that load I am getting the same velocity as I am with the 300 gr. X bullet at 34.5 gr. H110.
Of course, the primary advantage of the TTSX is it will expand down to 1000 fps, which none of those other bullets will even come close to.  Most lead core bullets need 17-1800 fps and the X bullet needs 1600 fps to start expansion and while you can stretch the range by using a flat nose bullet since expansion is not as necessary, those spitzer bullets are not good killers if they do not expand.
A friend of mine used the TTSX bullets in his .458 SOCOM and his kids took two really nice bucks and a doe last year and the TTSX bullet was ad perfect.



And this TTSX bullet was recovered under the hide on the off side of one of the deer:

Basically...

IMR-4198 MAX is 32.9 grns and H-110 MAX is 31.5 grns.

Quickloads maybe close or it maynot be.

If you are using over-MAX loads to start with, you are probably right on or over the pressure curve and the driving bands on the TTSX, the depth of the bullet seating (compression), and CRIMP is going to increase pressure over that.

You need start out with reduced charges  (remember 3% for H-110) and build a charge ladder.  



So since I have loads of 37.4 of IMR-4198 that the primers are flattening but still have a slight rounded edge, I will reduce to 30 grains and work up to 33 grns (32.9 MAX IMR-4198 @ 10% reduction) in half grain increments.

Read the primers at each load and then back off 1/2 grain from the start of losing round on the primer edge.

Has anyone had a squib with 30 grains of IMR-4198?  I don't want to have to pull a bullet.

My initial load for RL-7 for the TTSX was 32.0 grains and that was TOO light of a load it left all kind of un burned powder in the action and presented feeding issue resulting from that.
at 34.0 grains the load started responding better.
I have read Marty speaking of a major bullet manufacturer starting pressure barrel tests this would be an Ideal round to start with.

Love to see someone do formal testing, but I'd rather they started with the Remy bulk bullets (300 gr. HP and the 405 SP).

Not so sure how soon that company will be doing any such testing due to some changes in - shall we say - priorities for them.  So it might take longer than hoped to get pressure test data....

Tagged ..........

Great thread.  TAG for when my upper gets done.

LOL!  Two feet+ of penetration...

There's a joke in there somewhere

I got this e-mail from Barnes Bullets a few weeks back so there may be pressure test data available afteral:

I anticipate the #5 Barnes manual to be available  in 2012. However we may
have data for the 458 SOCOM available sooner. I'm attaching a collection of
load data from various vendors. Note that there are loads listed under each
tab at the bottom of the Excel doc.

Thanks, Ty

Ty Herring | Consumer Service - Lead Tech
Barnes Bullets, LLC

38 North Frontage Road, PO Box 620, Mona, UT 84645
Phone 435-856-1105 | Fax  435-856-1040 | [email protected]

Freedom Group Family of Companies: Remington | Marlin | Bushmaster Firearms
| DPMS / Panther Arms | H&R | Barnes Bullets | Advanced Armament Corp |
Mountain Khakis | EOTAC | Dakota Arms | Parker Gun


Also, in the picture above Marty posted with the bullet in ballistic gel, notice it is a TTSX bullet, not the TSX as identified in the picture.  The TSX is the standard triple banded X bullet that needs 1600 fps to expand and is not a boat tail design.  The bullet in the picture is the boat tailed TTSX bullet which expands down to 1000 fps.  Marty, you must have dropped a 'T.'

Here are a couple of 300 TTSX I recovered from a Thanksgiving stump shoot.

Took this guy with the TTSX.  I used 34 gr of RL-7  Did the job very well on three deer this year.  All of them were lung shots, and they were pretty much liquid when I cleaned the deer.  The shot was about 120 yards.  I was worried after some under-penetration issues last year with a muzzleloader, and I didn't want to make the same mistake.  Needless to say the bullet performed.  I could probably run bullet a little hotter, but I was getting good accuracy from my load.  

Hope you all don't mind that this is the 4th time to post this picture

Nice Buck  I am interested in your sling can you tell us something about it.  Looks like paracord to me.  Thanks  1943

any ideal what velocities are out of 10.5"? Looking at maybe getting a rra 10.5 for bear and hog hunting.

Nice deer with your socom there ! i can't wait to get my encore pistol barrel !

Thanks!  That is a paracord sling I made. I sell them occasionally on the EE and there will be one as a prize in the Team Ranstad giveaway once I can get him some pictures.  PM is inbound to you with more info.
ETA:Link for a good cause. And thread hijack over. Sorry, bring on some more TTSX goodness

I'd like to see some of the sling pics also.   and Nice Buck! Congrats