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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:51:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2016 1:48:45 PM EDT by WITC]
Link Posted: 8/29/2016 5:48:45 PM EDT
I had the Spitfire 3x and it was very nice. Excellent glass and the reticle was quite fast. That being said, I went back to a red dot because I found it was still a bit faster.
Link Posted: 8/29/2016 6:19:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WITC:
http://i.imgur.com/tnAq20l.jpg
I went out to Vortex Optics last week and after a few hours of playing with all the goodies they make I decided to use the SPITFIRE SERIES Prism Scope with the MOA reticle, it's BDC'ed ( I don't know if that is a word but you know what I mean) for 5.56. The scope is a 3X. The question is do you think 3X is too much for a CQB rifle? Most of my shooting will be at 15 yards out to about 100 yards.
The approximate ranges I shoot are 15 yards and under 65%, 15 to 50 yards 25% and 50 to 150 yards 10%. Mostly tactical training so it's a lot of doubles and 3 round shots. I do have to admit that I can sure use the 3X help on anything over 75 yards since the eyes just ain't what they used to be.
Thanks
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Get the new Steiner P4Xi.
Link Posted: 8/29/2016 9:58:16 PM EDT
For below 150 yards, I'd go with a straight red dot.
Link Posted: 8/29/2016 10:38:19 PM EDT
red dot would be and is my choice . I have an aimpoint pro and a trijicon 4x acog . yep I can get on target up close pretty quick with the acog but for shooting close and fast the aimpoint is hard to beat . Its just my experience using my rifles for hunting while not kicking doors having a coyote bust cover at damn near bad breath range or a deer break out of a thicket 20 yds away the aimpoint is faster on target . I have also took a few ground hogs out around 100 yds with the aimpoint . I wont be selling either .
Link Posted: 8/30/2016 11:42:50 AM EDT
For home defense and area defense I prefer a red dot...
If a person suffers from astigmatism then a good prism type optic with a clear 1X and a single circle and a 2moa red dot would be good to as long as it was well built.
If I know I am going to shoot out a bit farther I would rather have a well built variable Vortex makes one as does Leupold in the VX-R series
I like simple reticles like the German #4 type with a 2moa dot
For my brand of hunting a VX-R 2-7 is all I need.
Link Posted: 8/30/2016 12:23:34 PM EDT
I've also been tempted to get a Vortex 3x Prism for my aging eyes. I have a 3x Magnifier behind a red dot. I have a Strike Eagle 1-6x. I have a couple of 2 MOA micro dots.

But for a carbine class shooting at a max of 100 yards down to say 7 yards, I would like the simplicity of a single optic. I think the Vortex 3x would work well?

But, after a little comparison, the 1-4x (Steiner) and the 1-6x (Strike Eagle) are only 2 ounces heavier than the prism. I think that is the best bang for buck.
Link Posted: 8/30/2016 12:29:49 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:
For below 150 yards, I'd go with a straight red dot.
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Agreed.

If you are going to do any precision shooting then get the 1-6x Strike Eagle.
Link Posted: 8/30/2016 12:41:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WITC:
http://i.imgur.com/tnAq20l.jpg
I went out to Vortex Optics last week and after a few hours of playing with all the goodies they make I decided to use the SPITFIRE SERIES Prism Scope with the MOA reticle, it's BDC'ed ( I don't know if that is a word but you know what I mean) for 5.56. The scope is a 3X. The question is do you think 3X is too much for a CQB rifle? Most of my shooting will be at 15 yards out to about 100 yards.
The approximate ranges I shoot are 15 yards and under 65%, 15 to 50 yards 25% and 50 to 150 yards 10%. Mostly tactical training so it's a lot of doubles and 3 round shots. I do have to admit that I can sure use the 3X help on anything over 75 yards since the eyes just ain't what they used to be.
Thanks
View Quote



I had the PA 2.5 and while it was nice I just never got use to it. Too much for inside the house and could have been better for longer shots. IMO the worst of both worlds.

For a CQB, for the vast majority of civilians, a red dot is the ticket. Great out to 100 yards and with practice can easily be shot much farther. Not to mention the legal implications of shooting at people farther than 100 yards.

If you ask me a 1-6 with a good reticle like the ACSS is the best of both worlds. The reticle at 1x is awesome up close and can reach out 6x to make the long shots or even for target ID.

Target ID is a big one few consider. Like I said you can get very proficient with a red dot at hundreds of yards. Try ID'ing the target though. Especially as you get older.
Link Posted: 8/30/2016 1:47:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2016 1:49:23 PM EDT by WITC]
Link Posted: 8/30/2016 2:19:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2016 2:22:38 PM EDT by JJREA]
I think if a guy can handle the weight of it, the low powered scopes are really the way to go. I think if you're shooting that much under 15 yards, the 3x will be a hindrance. But I'm with you, my eyes are not what they used to be. I used to do a lot of iron shooting. Or scopes. I recently got an Aimpoint PRO and although I find it fast, I'm not sure I gain a whole crap ton in accuracy at 50 yards. It has the edge, but it's not like light years better. I wish they made a scope that was 1-6 that weighed only 10 ounces with a mount. Probably not gonna happen.

Sucks getting old, eh?

But one thing to think about, you could throw a burris FF3 on the rail on that 3x and you might have the best of both worlds. Because at 50-100 yards I'm more accurate with some magnification.
Link Posted: 8/30/2016 8:14:08 PM EDT
I keep a 3x around for my 10.5 SBR. Some people think its crazy, but the weapon has 300-+ yard potential and PID is very important. I rarely have it on the weapon. but I do not want optics to limit the weapons potential. And yes I know you can hit steel at 300yds with just a dot - but it is more about the PID. Side note - If you ever plan on doing any indoors work a variable power optic will give a bad glare and will be useless if you have more light behind you than in front - like if you are leaving a lighted room and entering a darker room. So for HD I would never recommend a variable powered optic. If you only shot outside its hard to beat a good 1-4 or 1-6 optic.
Link Posted: 9/10/2016 10:40:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2016 1:50:28 PM EDT by WITC]
Link Posted: 9/10/2016 10:54:48 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WITC:
Well after some shopping I decided I could not make up my mind , so I have two Vortex scopes coming.
On order is a SPITFIRE 3X and a 1 to 6 Strike Eagle. I really like the Enhanced Battle Reticle on the Spitfire and the field of view is great for up close I'm still on the fence for the 3X part but I think it will be just fine. With the Strike Eagle once again the reticle got me the AR-BDC is just what I am looking for and cranking it up to 6X is huge for my 10 MOA eyes. I'll let you know what I think after some range time. Thanks for the help.
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You're going to really like both I'm guessing.
Link Posted: 9/10/2016 1:52:09 PM EDT
I have a eotech 3x with a qd mount. Cool thing about my set up is i can move it from rifle to rifle in seconds. I use it mainly for accuracy testing to be honest. They add alot of weight.
Link Posted: 9/10/2016 2:14:41 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:
For below 150 yards, I'd go with a straight red dot.
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Even out to 200. I feel the greatest thing about red dots is their light weight and simplicity of use. Point and shoot. When a person mounts a magnifier, a flip to side mount etc. I feel they end up with a contraption instead of a useful tool.

Too many outstanding 1.25-4 and 1.5-5 illuminated scopes do it all in one package and save weight. Look at Leupold's Fire Dot scopes, VX-R series and VX-III's. Even the Mark 4 SPR's if you can afford one. You can dial them down and turn on the illumination for close quarters, dial the magnification up and turn the illumination off for precision work.

You won't have the magnifier hanging off the side of your upper ready to smack into something. You'll cut the weight in two by only having one scope and one mount. You'll probably save money depending on who's red dot and magnifier you buy.

I have a lot of red dots and zero magnifiers.
Link Posted: 9/10/2016 3:28:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2016 3:29:37 PM EDT by JJREA]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:


Even out to 200. I feel the greatest thing about red dots is their light weight and simplicity of use. Point and shoot. When a person mounts a magnifier, a flip to side mount etc. I feel they end up with a contraption instead of a useful tool.

Too many outstanding 1.25-4 and 1.5-5 illuminated scopes do it all in one package and save weight. Look at Leupold's Fire Dot scopes, VX-R series and VX-III's. Even the Mark 4 SPR's if you can afford one. You can dial them down and turn on the illumination for close quarters, dial the magnification up and turn the illumination off for precision work.

You won't have the magnifier hanging off the side of your upper ready to smack into something. You'll cut the weight in two by only having one scope and one mount. You'll probably save money depending on who's red dot and magnifier you buy.

I have a lot of red dots and zero magnifiers.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:
For below 150 yards, I'd go with a straight red dot.


Even out to 200. I feel the greatest thing about red dots is their light weight and simplicity of use. Point and shoot. When a person mounts a magnifier, a flip to side mount etc. I feel they end up with a contraption instead of a useful tool.

Too many outstanding 1.25-4 and 1.5-5 illuminated scopes do it all in one package and save weight. Look at Leupold's Fire Dot scopes, VX-R series and VX-III's. Even the Mark 4 SPR's if you can afford one. You can dial them down and turn on the illumination for close quarters, dial the magnification up and turn the illumination off for precision work.

You won't have the magnifier hanging off the side of your upper ready to smack into something. You'll cut the weight in two by only having one scope and one mount. You'll probably save money depending on who's red dot and magnifier you buy.

I have a lot of red dots and zero magnifiers.


I think that might depend on what RED dot and magnifier. I think if you had a T-1 with a magnifier it's not going to be much heavier than a scope and mount, typically speaking. I can double check magnifier and mount weights, but I really think your statement is an exaggeration. Most duty approved 1-4's and 1-6's are pretty heavy on their own. And then you need a mount. My Larue is right around 7 ounces and finding a scope for under 10 ounces that is a rugged one, I'm not sure there is one. So you're looking at a whole pound and usually more for a low powered variable. At least that's been my experience looking at the numbers. I'm pretty sure a T-1 with a magnifier isn't any heavier. Now if you go eotech, or Aimpoint PRO or M2, then you start bumping up the weight but I still contend it's not going to be double a low powered variable and a mount.

I was going to do some more checking on weights soon here, but that's my recollection.

Another thing dawned on my about magnified scopes. If for some reason you're an old guy with glasses and they break in the middle of a gunfight or you lose them or forget them in the middle of the night..... I can see a whole lot better through a scope without my glasses on. As opposed to a red dot with no magnification.
Link Posted: 9/10/2016 4:03:34 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JJREA:


I think that might depend on what RED dot and magnifier. I think if you had a T-1 with a magnifier it's not going to be much heavier than a scope and mount, typically speaking. I can double check magnifier and mount weights, but I really think your statement is an exaggeration. Most duty approved 1-4's and 1-6's are pretty heavy on their own. And then you need a mount. My Larue is right around 7 ounces and finding a scope for under 10 ounces that is a rugged one, I'm not sure there is one. So you're looking at a whole pound and usually more for a low powered variable. At least that's been my experience looking at the numbers. I'm pretty sure a T-1 with a magnifier isn't any heavier. Now if you go eotech, or Aimpoint PRO or M2, then you start bumping up the weight but I still contend it's not going to be double a low powered variable and a mount.

I was going to do some more checking on weights soon here, but that's my recollection.

Another thing dawned on my about magnified scopes. If for some reason you're an old guy with glasses and they break in the middle of a gunfight or you lose them or forget them in the middle of the night..... I can see a whole lot better through a scope without my glasses on. As opposed to a red dot with no magnification.
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:
For below 150 yards, I'd go with a straight red dot.


Even out to 200. I feel the greatest thing about red dots is their light weight and simplicity of use. Point and shoot. When a person mounts a magnifier, a flip to side mount etc. I feel they end up with a contraption instead of a useful tool.

Too many outstanding 1.25-4 and 1.5-5 illuminated scopes do it all in one package and save weight. Look at Leupold's Fire Dot scopes, VX-R series and VX-III's. Even the Mark 4 SPR's if you can afford one. You can dial them down and turn on the illumination for close quarters, dial the magnification up and turn the illumination off for precision work.

You won't have the magnifier hanging off the side of your upper ready to smack into something. You'll cut the weight in two by only having one scope and one mount. You'll probably save money depending on who's red dot and magnifier you buy.

I have a lot of red dots and zero magnifiers.


I think that might depend on what RED dot and magnifier. I think if you had a T-1 with a magnifier it's not going to be much heavier than a scope and mount, typically speaking. I can double check magnifier and mount weights, but I really think your statement is an exaggeration. Most duty approved 1-4's and 1-6's are pretty heavy on their own. And then you need a mount. My Larue is right around 7 ounces and finding a scope for under 10 ounces that is a rugged one, I'm not sure there is one. So you're looking at a whole pound and usually more for a low powered variable. At least that's been my experience looking at the numbers. I'm pretty sure a T-1 with a magnifier isn't any heavier. Now if you go eotech, or Aimpoint PRO or M2, then you start bumping up the weight but I still contend it's not going to be double a low powered variable and a mount.

I was going to do some more checking on weights soon here, but that's my recollection.

Another thing dawned on my about magnified scopes. If for some reason you're an old guy with glasses and they break in the middle of a gunfight or you lose them or forget them in the middle of the night..... I can see a whole lot better through a scope without my glasses on. As opposed to a red dot with no magnification.


I'm with you on the glasses vs. no glasses. I set my scopes up for no glasses when shooting because I can adjust them (barely) to see perfectly with my naked eyes. I use plain old fashion shooting glasses when using them. If something goes bump in the middle of the night I can use my scopes with perfect vision. Most of my scopes are at their adjustment limit for me to focus with a naked eye, but it works for me.
Link Posted: 9/10/2016 5:48:28 PM EDT
I've done red dot. I've done red dot with 2.5X magnifier. And I've done variable power. Personally, I really like fixed 3X for general purpose guns. 2.5X is about the same thing. That magnification allows wide field of view with rapid target acquisition and range beyond where you might as well just point-shoot. And yet is enough magnification that you get the benefit of magnification for more precise shooting and target acquisition in field conditions. My opinion, a fixed 3X will serve you very well as a no-frills general purpose scope. It will be the same optic at the same magnification and same sight-picture every time you raise it to you eye. Every time.




Link Posted: 9/10/2016 10:53:30 PM EDT
Could look at the Burris 332.

It's down to roughly $250
Link Posted: 9/11/2016 4:53:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2016 4:55:04 AM EDT by demoMouse]
Originally Posted By WITC:
http://i.imgur.com/tnAq20l.jpg
I went out to Vortex Optics last week and after a few hours of playing with all the goodies they make I decided to use the SPITFIRE SERIES Prism Scope with the MOA reticle, it's BDC'ed ( I don't know if that is a word but you know what I mean) for 5.56. The scope is a 3X. The question is do you think 3X is too much for a CQB rifle? Most of my shooting will be at 15 yards out to about 100 yards.
The approximate ranges I shoot are 15 yards and under 65%, 15 to 50 yards 25% and 50 to 150 yards 10%. Mostly tactical training so it's a lot of doubles and 3 round shots. I do have to admit that I can sure use the 3X help on anything over 75 yards since the eyes just ain't what they used to be.
Thanks
View Quote

At those distances, a 3x is going to be counterproductive, and slower. Get a 1x. If you dig Vortex,check out the Spitfire or Strikefire lines. The Spitfire Prism AR is nice af, especially for the price, and the strikefire is gtg as well. I'd put both unquestionably at the top of the $250-300 price range.
Link Posted: 9/11/2016 9:06:37 PM EDT
i recently purchased the vortex strike eagle 1-6. It's currently mounted, but i haven't had a change to sight it in yet. I really like the reticle though. You may want to check that out.
Link Posted: 9/13/2016 5:07:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2016 7:18:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By WITC:
Well I'm halfway there. I just got in the scope mount I'm using with the Strike Eagle. It's the new Keystone Accuracy A5 NM Scope Mount. So far so good!



http://i.imgur.com/7nbvSmM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/L5NTp5s.jpg
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Nice! Looks like a well made unit. Is it made of steel?
Link Posted: 9/13/2016 7:23:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2016 4:58:18 PM EDT by WITC]
Link Posted: 9/14/2016 8:35:55 PM EDT
I just received my PA 3X. I wasn't too sure about it, but my requirement was for something in the "mid range" category, as in distance.

Looking through the glass, I'm pleasantly surprised. The reticle is super clear! No tint on the glass that I can tell. If it lasts, I'll be a happy camper. I went with the ACSS reticle.

Hopefully get it zeroed in soon.

You stated you want it for 15 yards and beyond. I think you would be happy with it at 15 yards. I'm looking out my window with it and it looks great and relatively quick. Obvious not as a fast as a red dot.

But inside, room to room. It's pretty slow for me. But I'm not an operator though.
Link Posted: 9/15/2016 3:15:58 PM EDT
If you want a scope for those ranges go to a low power variable. I personally like the Weaver V3 for the application you are doing. To sweeten the deal it's about a quarter pound lighter than the spitfire and half the cost. I run one on my Mossberg Patrol .308 and really want to get one for the AR as well and sell my 1-4.

WEAVER V3 1-3 VARIABLE

Link Posted: 9/19/2016 12:08:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2016 1:57:13 PM EDT by WITC]
Link Posted: 10/24/2016 5:42:00 PM EDT
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