308 vs. 300 black out

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 308 vs. 300 black out

Posted: 11/21/2012 10:27:54 AM EDT

I have always loved the AR platform. I am thinking of going to a larger caliber and and was leaning towards the 308. I then came across the 300 blackout. I know the 300 is a bit smaller but from what I've heard a comparable round to the 308. Please leave your opinions on either and any links to facts for going either way. With the threat of the assault weapons ban looming I am looking to make my decision soon. I am aware that the 300 blackout is compatible with the magazines I already have. Any other information would be greatly appreciated.

Posted: 11/21/2012 10:34:37 AM EDT

[#1]

308 is an all around cartridge, where as 300 blk is a close quarters round that won't shoot long distances.

they are also on different platforms ar15 vs larger ar10

Posted: 11/21/2012 10:37:01 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

I've heard a comparable round to the 308.

Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.

Posted: 11/21/2012 11:03:28 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.

Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.

pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.

Posted: 11/21/2012 11:21:22 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
308 is an all around cartridge, where as 300 blk is a close quarters round that won't shoot long distances.

they are also on different platforms ar15 vs larger ar10

Search "300 Blackout Year" on YouTube, Travis Haley engaging targets out to 750m with .300 BO.

Posted: 11/21/2012 11:25:21 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.

Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.

Yea... not the same in any measure other then they shoot the same bullet.

The 300 BLK works in your AR-15 so you can get a new upper, the 308 requires a new gun as well as new mags.

The 300 BLK is best as a supressed system but with supersonic ammo it can do just about anything a 30/30 or 7.62x39 can. It just doesn't have the power of the 308 round, not even close!

Posted: 11/21/2012 12:37:04 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.

Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.

pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.

Start at 7m12s

If that doesn't work go to the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik

I don't know about you, but consistent hits at 750m out of an SBR using a red dot would lead me to believe it's a little more useful than 200 yards.

Posted: 11/21/2012 1:17:24 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.

Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.

pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.

Start at 7m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik&start=432

If that doesn't work go to the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik

I don't know about you, but consistent hits at 750m out of an SBR using a red dot would lead me to believe it's a little more useful than 200 yards.

His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "

Posted: 11/21/2012 1:35:15 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.

Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.

pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.

Will subsonic .308 cycle?

Posted: 11/21/2012 1:35:52 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.

Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.

pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.

Start at 7m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik&start=432

If that doesn't work go to the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik

I don't know about you, but consistent hits at 750m out of an SBR using a red dot would lead me to believe it's a little more useful than 200 yards.

His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "

While I understand and agree with your point, you have to admit that less than 5-10% of this board will EVER need to engage a target at anything over 300 meters unless they are hunting and even then its not all that often. A 308 will be better but will cost you considerably more as well in terms of equipment.

Based off my limited but growing understanding, anything under 200 meters will be great for the 300. Especially inside of 50 meters where most of our extremely limited chances of engagement will ever come.

Posted: 11/21/2012 1:40:09 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.

Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.

pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.

Start at 7m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik&start=432

If that doesn't work go to the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik

I don't know about you, but consistent hits at 750m out of an SBR using a red dot would lead me to believe it's a little more useful than 200 yards.

His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "

My post had nothing to do with with the merits of it's worthiness or ideality at 750m. It was a direct response to whoever said it was only accurate out to 200 yards. Who cares what his hold was. The gun shoots where it was supposed to and can make those shots successfully. His setup might have used a red dot, but that doesn't mean every single one has to. Holding 40 feet or not, my point was that it could be accurate enough to make those hits.

Posted: 11/22/2012 7:40:19 AM EDT

[#11]

Thanks for all the opinions this is exactly what I am looking for, good heated debate. Please do not insult each other but defense of you opinions or facts is acceptable. Maybe I should revise my request. Which is the more all around round to use, meaning in close and far out, for an average shooter?

Posted: 11/22/2012 7:41:47 AM EDT

[#12]

Topic Moved

Posted: 11/22/2012 7:44:44 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Thanks for all the opinions this is exactly what I am looking for, good heated debate. Please do not insult each other but defense of you opinions or facts is acceptable. Maybe I should revise my request. Which is the more all around round to use, meaning in close and far out, for an average shooter?

The advantage the 300 has is in using standard AR components: bolt, mags, lowers, etc.. Everything 308 is different and in some cases non standard between manufacturers. Depends on what you're looking for.

Posted: 11/22/2012 8:13:01 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.

Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.

pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.

Start at 7m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik&start=432

If that doesn't work go to the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik

I don't know about you, but consistent hits at 750m out of an SBR using a red dot would lead me to believe it's a little more useful than 200 yards.

His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "

My post had nothing to do with with the merits of it's worthiness or ideality at 750m. It was a direct response to whoever said it was only accurate out to 200 yards. Who cares what his hold was. The gun shoots where it was supposed to and can make those shots successfully. His setup might have used a red dot, but that doesn't mean every single one has to. Holding 40 feet or not, my point was that it could be accurate enough to make those hits.

Consistent hits are one thing. Effectiveness at that distance is another. I bet the same hits could be achieved with a .22 LR but that doesn't make it useful at that range. That doesn't mean anyone wants to use a .22 for that type of shooting. The Blackout has it's place. It is NOT however the best bet at longer ranges. The Blackout is GREAT at what it was designed for, short range suppressed. Being able to use almost all of the standard 5.56 components is just a side benefit for some.

Posted: 11/22/2012 8:29:19 AM EDT

[#15]

As already stated they are not even close to being equal.

AS a .300 blkout fan boy I can say even with optimal conditions, 300yds would be the max I would intentionally use it for hunting and honestly if I knew I was going to be shooting 200yds plus then I would grab my .308.

As it is inside 200 yds It is my go to gun for just about anything else.

Posted: 11/22/2012 8:37:35 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "

Now you know since a celeb was paid big bucks to do that, it has got to be the best choice.

What a joke. As mentioned, the 300blk would be fine for 200yd shots, anything after that and you will want some more thump. Plenty of better choices out there...

Posted: 11/22/2012 9:15:52 AM EDT

[#17]

At the 750 meters assumining he's using 125gr rounds and based on velocity data out of an 8.2" barrel from Vuurwapen blog the 125gr round would traveling at just over 950 feet per second with 250ish ft lbs of energy. Which is 25ft lbs more than a 5.56 mk262 at that range from a 20" barrel with a 22 foot hold over and a .308 175gr M118LR has 707ft lbs of energy at that range from a 24" barrel with a 20 foot hold over. As far as power and range the 308 and 300 blk are not comparable, but in the AR platform, the AR15 generally enjoys wide ranges of parts compatibility, getting into the .308 AR there are non compatible AR10 and LR 308 parts. The 300 blk was not designed to replace the .308 it was designed to replace the 5.56 M4, as well as the MP5 SD and the MP7 by filling as many of the roles of these 3 weapons as possible while retaining compatibility with as many parts from the M4 as possible.

Posted: 11/22/2012 10:05:07 AM EDT

[#18]

all you have to do is look at the cases.......no comparison.........the 308 holds.....waaayyy more powder.........

Posted: 11/22/2012 11:22:11 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.

Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.

pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.

Start at 7m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik&start=432

If that doesn't work go to the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik

I don't know about you, but consistent hits at 750m out of an SBR using a red dot would lead me to believe it's a little more useful than 200 yards.

His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "

My post had nothing to do with with the merits of it's worthiness or ideality at 750m. It was a direct response to whoever said it was only accurate out to 200 yards. Who cares what his hold was. The gun shoots where it was supposed to and can make those shots successfully. His setup might have used a red dot, but that doesn't mean every single one has to. Holding 40 feet or not, my point was that it could be accurate enough to make those hits.

I am the 1 who said its only good to about 200 yards. I have a .308 but I did consider a 300 at the time but i didnt know much about that round. I wanted to do 500+ yard shooting. the 308 could do that all day long, the 300, after researching it... not so much. yeah, the 300 may be able to go out longer.. but iafter 300 yards, ballistics are going to come into play BIG TIME. As far as this 750 yard shot.. yeah., i am sure it could happen, but as also stated, he had a 41 feet hold over. thats just insane! most people use a 41 inch hold over (and thats extreme) but FEET, yeah.. lets get alittle real here. just like i am sure u can shoot a 22 750 yards with a luck and prayer. doesnt mean its going to be effective either.

BUT, i will sya this for the 300. if i was more into hunting... the 300 is a GREAT round, mostly cause you arent trying to shoot 500+ yards

Posted: 11/22/2012 11:24:32 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
all you have to do is look at the cases.......no comparison.........the 308 holds.....waaayyy more powder.........

this was going to be my next point. 308 has way more powder. hell, my g/f hunts with a 300 weatherby. that makes my 308 looks like 223 as far as powde goes... and case size as well.

Posted: 11/22/2012 2:40:11 PM EDT

[#21]

Pretty much what needed to be said has been said.
Concerning the Travis video; With the proper staging many things are possible. I'll leave it at that. No need for a flame war.

Anyhoo, the one thing that has not been asked is: What are your uses for it?

Posted: 11/22/2012 4:20:30 PM EDT

[#22]

I own both . the 300 blackout was a result of my rock river arms 308 not being able to cycle sub sonic rounds . I reload and have a large assortment of 308 bullets from 100 grain through 225 grain . I also shoot a 5.56 and have a ton of brass plus I use lil-gun powder to load for my 458 socom and it just happens it also works good on super sonic blackout loads . So it is a cheap way for me to shoot suppressed and compatible with alot of my other weapons to an extent .
I love shooting the black out suppressed and with super sonics and the can off it is a great walking around rifle , light and easy handling . my 308 is a tack driver but it comes with a price , extra weight about 4 extra pounds .
when setting in a tree stand all day the extra weight is not a problem but when walking up and down the hills on my property and thick brush it is very evident . If I had no choice and was only able to own one it would be my 308 . like hot rodders say there is no replacement for displacement and the 308 definatly has more horse power. other than that the 300 blackout is an excellent deer gun out to 200 yds and varmints 300 or more yds. where I live the 300 can cover most of my shooting.

Posted: 11/22/2012 5:42:57 PM EDT

[#23]

Two different beasts you are considering. 308 can do what ever you want, but 300blk is a specialty cartridge of course. Just need to pick what you want to do with the firearm. Right tool for the task at hand is what i try to do.

Posted: 11/22/2012 5:58:31 PM EDT

[#24]

308 in an ar-15 platform look to the 30RAR or 30HRT, that is as close as you can get.

The 300 Blackout is a 30 Carbine that will run subs. Good for sub 200yds, even with the magic 110gr Black Tip.

Posted: 11/22/2012 7:22:20 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.

Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.

pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.

Start at 7m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik&start=432

If that doesn't work go to the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik

I don't know about you, but consistent hits at 750m out of an SBR using a red dot would lead me to believe it's a little more useful than 200 yards.

His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "

My post had nothing to do with with the merits of it's worthiness or ideality at 750m. It was a direct response to whoever said it was only accurate out to 200 yards. Who cares what his hold was. The gun shoots where it was supposed to and can make those shots successfully. His setup might have used a red dot, but that doesn't mean every single one has to. Holding 40 feet or not, my point was that it could be accurate enough to make those hits.

I am the 1 who said its only good to about 200 yards. I have a .308 but I did consider a 300 at the time but i didnt know much about that round. I wanted to do 500+ yard shooting. the 308 could do that all day long, the 300, after researching it... not so much. yeah, the 300 may be able to go out longer.. but iafter 300 yards, ballistics are going to come into play BIG TIME. As far as this 750 yard shot.. yeah., i am sure it could happen, but as also stated, he had a 41 feet hold over. thats just insane! most people use a 41 inch hold over (and thats extreme) but FEET, yeah.. lets get alittle real here. just like i am sure u can shoot a 22 750 yards with a luck and prayer. doesnt mean its going to be effective either.

BUT, i will sya this for the 300. if i was more into hunting... the 300 is a GREAT round, mostly cause you arent trying to shoot 500+ yards

The shots were at 750 meters which is roughly 820 yards.

Posted: 11/23/2012 7:11:54 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
308 is an all around cartridge, where as 300 blk is a close quarters round that won't shoot long distances.

they are also on different platforms ar15 vs larger ar10

Search "300 Blackout Year" on YouTube, Travis Haley engaging targets out to 750m with .300 BO.

Just because you can hit a target with it at that range, doesn't mean it's effective at that range.

I can hit a target with 45/70 @ 700m. Doesn't make it a practical choice.

Posted: 11/23/2012 7:16:12 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
I have always loved the AR platform. I am thinking of going to a larger caliber and and was leaning towards the 308. I then came across the 300 blackout. I know the 300 is a bit smaller but from what I've heard a comparable round to the 308. Please leave your opinions on either and any links to facts for going either way. With the threat of the assault weapons ban looming I am looking to make my decision soon. I am aware that the 300 blackout is compatible with the magazines I already have. Any other information would be greatly appreciated.

Stop listening to whoever told you that.
They use the same family of projectiles but they are two different classes of cartridges.

Posted: 11/23/2012 8:15:22 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I have always loved the AR platform. I am thinking of going to a larger caliber and and was leaning towards the 308. I then came across the 300 blackout. I know the 300 is a bit smaller but from what I've heard a comparable round to the 308. Please leave your opinions on either and any links to facts for going either way. With the threat of the assault weapons ban looming I am looking to make my decision soon. I am aware that the 300 blackout is compatible with the magazines I already have. Any other information would be greatly appreciated.

The 300 BLK is 100-200 fps slower than a 7.62x39 AK round which is apx 400 fps slower than a 308 so even though they use the same diameter bullet the 300 does not come close to the performance of a 308.

Posted: 11/23/2012 10:11:14 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.

Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.

and drops like a rock. where as 308 goes a lot further.
more ammo selection for 308, more this and more that. you will not have a problem finding 308 about anywhere.
300 where can you find that? walmart? doubt it.

i whent with a common caliber thats been around and proven. .308

Posted: 11/23/2012 1:54:17 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
308 in an ar-15 platform look to the 30RAR or 30HRT, that is as close as you can get.

The 300 Blackout is a 30 Carbine that will run subs. Good for sub 200yds, even with the magic 110gr Black Tip.

really ? .

Posted: 11/23/2012 3:58:54 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
308 in an ar-15 platform look to the 30RAR or 30HRT, that is as close as you can get.

The 300 Blackout is a 30 Carbine that will run subs. Good for sub 200yds, even with the magic 110gr Black Tip.

really ? .

Yup, really. If you want to send a .30 cal bullet down range with authority, from a AR15, the choices he listed are going to be it. Wilson Combat's 7.62X40 would also be a better round over the 300blk. Move to a bigger case=more power, easy math.

Posted: 11/23/2012 3:59:27 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
At the 750 meters assumining he's using 125gr rounds and based on velocity data out of an 8.2" barrel from Vuurwapen blog the 125gr round would traveling at just over 950 feet per second with 250ish ft lbs of energy. Which is 25ft lbs more than a 5.56 mk262 at that range from a 20" barrel with a 22 foot hold over and a .308 175gr M118LR has 707ft lbs of energy at that range from a 24" barrel with a 20 foot hold over. As far as power and range the 308 and 300 blk are not comparable, but in the AR platform, the AR15 generally enjoys wide ranges of parts compatibility, getting into the .308 AR there are non compatible AR10 and LR 308 parts. The 300 blk was not designed to replace the .308 it was designed to replace the 5.56 M4, as well as the MP5 SD and the MP7 by filling as many of the roles of these 3 weapons as possible while retaining compatibility with as many parts from the M4 as possible.

This ^^^ FTW

The 300blk and the Wilson 7.62X40 had the same origin but each took seperate paths when the issue of 35 vs 40 came up. The only part that must be changed in an AR 15 (5.56) to run the 300blk is the barrel.

Posted: 11/23/2012 9:07:08 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
At the 750 meters assumining he's using 125gr rounds and based on velocity data out of an 8.2" barrel from Vuurwapen blog the 125gr round would traveling at just over 950 feet per second with 250ish ft lbs of energy. Which is 25ft lbs more than a 5.56 mk262 at that range from a 20" barrel with a 22 foot hold over and a .308 175gr M118LR has 707ft lbs of energy at that range from a 24" barrel with a 20 foot hold over. As far as power and range the 308 and 300 blk are not comparable, but in the AR platform, the AR15 generally enjoys wide ranges of parts compatibility, getting into the .308 AR there are non compatible AR10 and LR 308 parts. The 300 blk was not designed to replace the .308 it was designed to replace the 5.56 M4, as well as the MP5 SD and the MP7 by filling as many of the roles of these 3 weapons as possible while retaining compatibility with as many parts from the M4 as possible.

This ^^^ FTW

The 300blk and the Wilson 7.62X40 had the same origin but each took seperate paths when the issue of 35 vs 40 came up. The only part that must be changed in an AR 15 (5.56) to run the 300blk is the barrel.

So the 300blk was held over 41 ft compared to 22ft with the 556. What exactly do you aim at with a 41ft hold over? Stick a telephone pole up behind the target and aim at the top of the pole?
Excuse me there enemy soldier do you mind standing if front of this pole so I can hit your ass?...give me a few minutes to run back to my position and take the shot ok.

Posted: 11/24/2012 6:40:26 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
At the 750 meters assumining he's using 125gr rounds and based on velocity data out of an 8.2" barrel from Vuurwapen blog the 125gr round would traveling at just over 950 feet per second with 250ish ft lbs of energy. Which is 25ft lbs more than a 5.56 mk262 at that range from a 20" barrel with a 22 foot hold over and a .308 175gr M118LR has 707ft lbs of energy at that range from a 24" barrel with a 20 foot hold over. As far as power and range the 308 and 300 blk are not comparable, but in the AR platform, the AR15 generally enjoys wide ranges of parts compatibility, getting into the .308 AR there are non compatible AR10 and LR 308 parts. The 300 blk was not designed to replace the .308 it was designed to replace the 5.56 M4, as well as the MP5 SD and the MP7 by filling as many of the roles of these 3 weapons as possible while retaining compatibility with as many parts from the M4 as possible.

This ^^^ FTW

The 300blk and the Wilson 7.62X40 had the same origin but each took seperate paths when the issue of 35 vs 40 came up. The only part that must be changed in an AR 15 (5.56) to run the 300blk is the barrel.

So the 300blk was held over 41 ft compared to 22ft with the 556. What exactly do you aim at with a 41ft hold over? Stick a telephone pole up behind the target and aim at the top of the pole?
Excuse me there enemy soldier do you mind standing if front of this pole so I can hit your ass?...give me a few minutes to run back to my position and take the shot ok.

There are boulder & trees to aim at too.
Move the target as needed.

Posted: 11/24/2012 6:45:54 AM EDT

[#35]

7.62x39 is a great round in my 16" Colt HBAR but the .308 is a big step up in power. Got the Bushy XM-10 Midlength ready to run so I hope it shoots as well as it looks. I don't plan on suppressing either but the Blackout is a cool round and has a nitch. The 5.56 is a pick and the .308 is the sledge. Both can kill.

Posted: 11/24/2012 1:08:24 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
At the 750 meters assumining he's using 125gr rounds and based on velocity data out of an 8.2" barrel from Vuurwapen blog the 125gr round would traveling at just over 950 feet per second with 250ish ft lbs of energy. Which is 25ft lbs more than a 5.56 mk262 at that range from a 20" barrel with a 22 foot hold over and a .308 175gr M118LR has 707ft lbs of energy at that range from a 24" barrel with a 20 foot hold over. As far as power and range the 308 and 300 blk are not comparable, but in the AR platform, the AR15 generally enjoys wide ranges of parts compatibility, getting into the .308 AR there are non compatible AR10 and LR 308 parts. The 300 blk was not designed to replace the .308 it was designed to replace the 5.56 M4, as well as the MP5 SD and the MP7 by filling as many of the roles of these 3 weapons as possible while retaining compatibility with as many parts from the M4 as possible.

This ^^^ FTW

The 300blk and the Wilson 7.62X40 had the same origin but each took seperate paths when the issue of 35 vs 40 came up. The only part that must be changed in an AR 15 (5.56) to run the 300blk is the barrel.

So the 300blk was held over 41 ft compared to 22ft with the 556. What exactly do you aim at with a 41ft hold over? Stick a telephone pole up behind the target and aim at the top of the pole?
Excuse me there enemy soldier do you mind standing if front of this pole so I can hit your ass?...give me a few minutes to run back to my position and take the shot ok.

You hold twice as high as you would for a 77gr 5.55 at that distance.
This was also with an 8.5" barrel, with a 16" barrel hold over is around 35 feet which to the shooter is a 49 MOA hold.

Posted: 11/24/2012 5:00:21 PM EDT

[#37]

I really like the AR and had used my 450B for deer hunting several times, but too large of a chunk of lead for whitetails, LOL. I had a spare DPMS lower and upper in the closet so I decided to build them up with a light weight 300 barrel. I purchased a AR Stoner ultralight profile stainless 16" carbine barrel. It is an excellent brushgun, seldom does a shot over 200 yards present itself in the woods I hunt and even though I am a decent shot and have usually hunted with my 18" custom barreled TC Encore (7mm08), it doesnt offer a quick follow up shot like the 300BLK does. I just took a 6pntr yesterday, jumped the deer at 20 yards and the second running shot(the first hitting brush) of Barnes tipped jewells took the lungs out. Up close it is an awesome hunting weapon! And yes I have also lugged a DPMS 308 behemouth around in the woods for a full day, never again,,,LOL,,,, I want as light of weight gun as feasible for a semi auto and one that is small, easily manuvered in thick brush and offers a follow-up shot, I will save the larger calibers for my Encore in more open hunting areas where single long shots are the rule.

What is a good red dot for hunting with the 300?

Posted: 11/25/2012 6:16:05 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
I really like the AR and had used my 450B for deer hunting several times, but too large of a chunk of lead for whitetails, LOL. I had a spare DPMS lower and upper in the closet so I decided to build them up with a light weight 300 barrel. I purchased a AR Stoner ultralight profile stainless 16" carbine barrel. It is an excellent brushgun, seldom does a shot over 200 yards present itself in the woods I hunt and even though I am a decent shot and have usually hunted with my 18" custom barreled TC Encore (7mm08), it doesnt offer a quick follow up shot like the 300BLK does. I just took a 6pntr yesterday, jumped the deer at 20 yards and the second running shot(the first hitting brush) of Barnes tipped jewells took the lungs out. Up close it is an awesome hunting weapon! And yes I have also lugged a DPMS 308 behemouth around in the woods for a full day, never again,,,LOL,,,, I want as light of weight gun as feasible for a semi auto and one that is small, easily manuvered in thick brush and offers a follow-up shot, I will save the larger calibers for my Encore in more open hunting areas where single long shots are the rule.

What is a good red dot for hunting with the 300?

Aimpoint micro. Plus keeps the weight down.

Posted: 11/25/2012 2:54:10 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
308 in an ar-15 platform look to the 30RAR or 30HRT, that is as close as you can get.

The 300 Blackout is a 30 Carbine that will run subs. Good for sub 200yds, even with the magic 110gr Black Tip.

really ? .

Yup, do the math, its simple. Or you can bury your head in the sand and pretend all you want.

Posted: 11/25/2012 3:20:16 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
I really like the AR and had used my 450B for deer hunting several times, but too large of a chunk of lead for whitetails, LOL. I had a spare DPMS lower and upper in the closet so I decided to build them up with a light weight 300 barrel. I purchased a AR Stoner ultralight profile stainless 16" carbine barrel. It is an excellent brushgun, seldom does a shot over 200 yards present itself in the woods I hunt and even though I am a decent shot and have usually hunted with my 18" custom barreled TC Encore (7mm08), it doesnt offer a quick follow up shot like the 300BLK does. I just took a 6pntr yesterday, jumped the deer at 20 yards and the second running shot(the first hitting brush) of Barnes tipped jewells took the lungs out. Up close it is an awesome hunting weapon! And yes I have also lugged a DPMS 308 behemouth around in the woods for a full day, never again,,,LOL,,,, I want as light of weight gun as feasible for a semi auto and one that is small, easily manuvered in thick brush and offers a follow-up shot, I will save the larger calibers for my Encore in more open hunting areas where single long shots are the rule.

What is a good red dot for hunting with the 300?

Another good choice is the Trijicon TA-44. Not a red-dot, really, but the added magnification would be a bonus in the field, and be just about as fast as a red-dot.

Posted: 11/25/2012 4:01:12 PM EDT

[#41]

I like the blackout, but it's absolutely hilarious that since one of the finest marksmen in North America was able to lob a few rounds onto a steel target at extreme distances under perfect environmental conditions, people are now championing the nonexistent long range attributes of this round. Get real.

Posted: 11/25/2012 5:13:58 PM EDT

[#42]

Consider your choice here; would you rather use a 30-30 or the 308?
do you run short and suppressed or long and loud?
Would you rather carry a lighter, cheaper rifle or the heavier more expensive rifle ( mine weighs 14 unloaded and cost well over 2300 building from scratch)

That being said, i love my 308 AR, but it rarely comes out except for range trips.

Posted: 11/26/2012 12:01:00 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "

Now you know since a celeb was paid big bucks to do that, it has got to be the best choice.

What a joke. As mentioned, the 300blk would be fine for 200yd shots, anything after that and you will want some more thump. Plenty of better choices out there...

Really what was he paid? Who paid him to make that video?

You don't know you just pull stuff out of you @#$. Funny thing is you try and diminish what he said by saying he is a paid actor. The only problem is he backed up everything he stated on the video. Unlike your take on the 300BLK he has proof.

Which one should I believe? A know blackout hater that doesn't even own a blackout or a titan in the shooting world that used his 300BLK to win a national championship?

So, the Barnes black tip is capable of 20 inches of penetration at 300 yards with a half inch diameter expansion isn't enough thump?

Posted: 11/26/2012 12:34:53 PM EDT

[#44]

If you want to shoot out past 500 yards get the 308. It is a great round that has a ton of availability and mil surplus for plinking. If most of your shots are under 350 yards with an occasional shots to 500 then the 300BLK will work fine.

I can easily shoot out to 300 yards hitting a 12 inch plate all day long with my 110gr vmax or 110gr Black tips. I am sure the 115gr and 125gr match bullets would work just fine to but I don't use those. I can hit the same plate 85% of the time at 300 yards with the 147gr milsurplus tracers. They cost very little to shoot but aren't near as accurate as the match or non milsurplus.

When I stretch the range to 500 yards with the 110gr Blacktips man size targets get a little harder to hit but no more than the 308. You just need to know your windage and drop.

The 308 will have a lot more capability at 500 yards in terms of penetration and energy but the 300BLK at 500 yards still has more energy than a 9mm at the muzzle. So, no real slouch in the capability department and with the much lower recoil of the 300BLK follow up shots come faster and easier than the 308.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 308 vs. 300 black out

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