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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 4/7/2003 4:43:39 AM EDT
I'm getting tired of making my own 300 whisper brass. I figure if others from the group can get 458 socom brass made, why can't we do the same with the 300 whisper. I know we can't call it a whisper because of J.D.Jones' trademarks, but we could just use the 300/221 designation and specifications. Anyone else interested?
Link Posted: 4/7/2003 7:16:13 AM EDT
Don't know what kind of quantities you are looking at, but I may be interested. Damn funds are low, everything going into this monster we call a house right now. I had been purchasing once fired brass from SSK industries in the past. Have about 500 twice fired pieces. They seem to be holding up well. Can't remember the headstamp right now. Accuracy has been excellent out of my gun thus far. I'll keep watching this post. E-mail if you have anymore thoughts on this. Nick
Link Posted: 4/7/2003 8:04:25 AM EDT
Nick, That's where I've been getting my brass also, but even some of the "new" pieces are difficult to load. In reference to the headstamp, it doesn't matter what we get on it, we just can't use the 300 whisper title without JD Jones approval. I would like to get some brand new brass instead of one fired, converted whisper brass.
Link Posted: 4/9/2003 4:46:30 AM EDT
C'mon, some of you have to be interested. Where are all of you closet Whisper fans?
Link Posted: 4/9/2003 4:49:40 AM EDT
I ordered a bunch of new Lake City .223 brass from gibrass.com and I make my 300 whisper brass from that. Looks good, loads good, shoots good. *shrug* - personally it's worth the time to make it from high quality .223 brass rather than pay for completed brass. Ryan NRA Life Member USPSA Member AR15.com Member
Link Posted: 4/9/2003 6:58:30 AM EDT
VSP, I understand what you are saying. Reidry, making the brass isn't all that hard from what I have read but it does seem time consuming (have not made any myself yet). I agree that quality new brass at reasonable prices for the .300 (Whisper) would be nice though. Keep this thread going I am sure some people will start to pipe up soon. It seems that a few people are actually thinking of suppressing some .300's, questions to KKF and a discussin or two have popped up on some other threads. There will soon be people looking for ammo for these nice rifles and only COR-Bon makes any if you do not re-load. Like I said I will probably be in for some if we can get this going.
Link Posted: 4/9/2003 8:11:20 AM EDT
I would be interested. I'm not sure the cost and quantity. I'd like to see it called 300 fireball or get JD's ok for the Wisper. He should welcome the recognition. It would help in getting his creation into more eyes n hands. I'm working on my 300 Wisper project. Could you give me some info on your 300 Wisper?
Link Posted: 4/9/2003 8:26:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2003 8:30:15 AM EDT by sharpshooter33]
I don't know why JD wouldn't give his ok. He would be getting his cartridge name out more and heck he might even want some brass himself! I don't know him, but it seems he's had problems before with people, but it was because they didn't even ask him. (ie Redding) I would be willing to email him or call him if someone wants to see his take on the 300 Wisper brass. [bounce] I'd like to see this little cartridge get the recognition it deserves.
Link Posted: 4/9/2003 8:33:24 AM EDT
JD would probably want royalties on the brass. I'm not bad mouthing him, but my dealings with him in the past have been "difficult" at best. I metioned going with the 300/221 headstamp because thats the name Redding makes the die under. I figure it would help clear up any confusion when people start looking for reloading components.
Link Posted: 4/9/2003 9:09:25 AM EDT
maybe that's why the cartridge hasn't grown as fast as I would have expected since 1990. I will email him with the question. It seems stupid to want more $$$$ when the cases themselves would be advertisement for him. I guess $$$ is more important than history. I can understand wanting to make $$$, but sometimes you may want to say thanks to people that have supported you and it never hurts to get your product name out there. Oh well who I am I. Just another gun nut with an obsession for 300 Wisper. [beer]
Link Posted: 4/9/2003 12:08:40 PM EDT
Yes, his stuff is good and top quality as per my experience but ouch! $1400 for an upper was alot. Oh well live and learn. Oh, when I mentioned headstamp I was merely refering to the fact that I did not know the headstamp of my particular brass. As far as custom brass goes I could care less what the headstamp is as long as the stuff is affordable and reliable.
Link Posted: 4/9/2003 6:40:59 PM EDT
$1100 he must have come down n price. That's a Shilen barrel and adjustable gas setup. I figure custom barrel $300-$500. Modification to get the gas system situp similar $100. Upper $100. Bolt Carrier $100. Free float tube $50. Front gas block $45. Am I missing anything? That makes around $600-$700. That leaves around $400 for JD's personal knowledge n experience. Some may say that's too expensive others may consider it priceless. I've been contemplating this myself. To project it out and put it together myself or to have it done right with no complaints. Don't know which way I will go on this one yet. Alot depends on my talks with JD. As far as the brass. I'd like to see a 300 Wisper headstamp. It doesn't make any difference, but it would be nice to look in a box and see a 300 Wisper headstamp for your 300 Wisper rifle. [beer]
Link Posted: 4/9/2003 9:10:33 PM EDT
At $1400 I got a 1" thick 24" long Shilen or Krieger (can't remember which) Bull barrel. With a custom cut colt Flatop Tri mount upper. Colt bolt, carrier, handle, the nice free float tube, adjustable gas system and guaranteed sub MOA groups. ( also got loading dies and some cutom loads from SSK) Really a nice looking and performing piece. [:D] Was it worth the money? I felt it was at the time.[bounce] Today though there are some really well qualified people out there putting out some really nice uppers, 221/300 fireball amongst them. Man I am starting to get excited about this, I really would like to see some matching brass now, thanks sharpshooter33! [beer] VSP do you need any help contacting people? Since CORBON already makes ammo for the whisper maybe we can contact them first and find out where they get their brass???
Link Posted: 4/9/2003 11:21:43 PM EDT
SSK either makes or sells the ammo to Corbon - per JD. It is headstamped LC 84 I believe. At least that's what I was told last week. The 458 SOCOM guys went thru Starline. It would be nice to have some headstamped brass. The SOCOM group looked like they where around $400/1000 in one message. Don't know what they ended getting it for. That would be $40 per 100rds. Kinda expensive compared to 221 Fireball which is I think around $15 @ Midway. Who knows maybe we can get a better deal. Wisper300 you got any suggestions on who could make me a good upper setup or who could make a good suppressor upper combo. I would like to have the suppressor 2 point and have it back to the gas block and not off the end of the barrel. Thanks guys!
Link Posted: 4/10/2003 3:54:14 AM EDT
Whisper300, I really wouldn't know where to begin in regards to getting the brass order. I was going to talk to Shivan458. I figured Starline would be our best bet, but I don't know. I'll try to find out the minimum order and get an idea. I think JD probably supplies the brass to Cor-bon for loading, but its still worth a try.
Link Posted: 4/10/2003 5:13:55 AM EDT
We ended up paying $44/100 for the SOCOM brass. Starline jerked us (SHIVAN458) around quite a bit. First we had to come up with a huge order (25k pieces) before they would tool up. Ok, I understand that; I'm sure there are startup costs. Then they decided to make more (~500) than we had ordered, and we had to buy it. They wanted to get a round number or something. Finally, due to losses in production, we ended up getting less (again ~500) than we ordered. We didn't pay for the missing brass, but it was still a hassle. In short, they're not very accomodating about this kind of thing. I think they've been burned in the past and left with a big pile of brass that nobody would pay for. If you guys aren't really set on getting headstamped brass, I can ask the fellow who made mine from LC 223 cases. I think he is still on a trip overseas courtesy of his Uncle, so that might not happen very soon. Would you be interested in making a ton of brass, Ryan? [;)] I'm sure people would be willing to pay you for your time.
Link Posted: 4/10/2003 6:24:24 AM EDT
Would one of you guys that is using 223 Brass to make 300 Whisper Brass share the steps that you must go through? I used 221 Fireball brass myself and it was very easy to do. See [url]http://quarterbore.com/300whisper/brass.html[/url]. The steps involves taking a 221 fireball case and running it through two passes in resizing dies, check it's length and you may want to trim it. Not too hard at all! I would love to add a description of what is required to convert 223 brass to 300 Whisper to the website if anybody can help? Perhaps I should just try it some day? I am guessing the following would work best with a 223 case: I ASSUME doing this with 223 brass will require first cutting the brass so that you are not trying to resize an entire 223 case to a 308 neck. Then you would need to resize. Then you would need to trim the case to the correct length. It just sounds like some extra work to me? Forming 300 Whisper brass from 223 brass may (or more likley will) cause the thickness of the brass to increase in the neck region. This in turn may cause you some problems? I really think you need to get comments from someone that has done this but as long as I can buy 221 Fireball brass [url]www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/145641[/url] for about $0.20/ea, it just isn't worth the effort for me! Am I missing something here? Why would you guys use 223 and just how do you do it, as I am just guessing the steps?
Link Posted: 4/10/2003 7:01:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2003 7:02:28 AM EDT by fizassist]
Originally Posted By Quarterbore: Am I missing something here? Why would you guys use 223 and just how do you do it, as I am just guessing the steps?
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I use it because my source gives me .300 whisper brass made from .223 LC at $120/1000. [;)] That's cheaper than I can buy .221 fireball.
Link Posted: 4/10/2003 7:12:05 AM EDT
Fair enough... 1000 221 brass would cost $192 or so.... [url]http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/577723[/url] This means you save $0.07 for each case... Is it worth it? What work is involved? How much time does it take?
Link Posted: 4/10/2003 7:18:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Quarterbore: Fair enough... 1000 221 brass would cost $192 or so.... [url]http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/577723[/url] This means you save $0.07 for each case... Is it worth it? What work is involved? How much time does it take?
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QB, I'm talking about $0.12/case for [b]formed[/b], sized, and trimmed brass. See why I go that route?
Link Posted: 4/10/2003 7:31:00 AM EDT
"I use it because my source gives me .300 whisper brass made from .223 LC at $120/1000. That's cheaper than I can buy .221 fireball." Hmmmm, Fizassist you are getting a really good price. If your source is the individual you were speaking about in an earlier post I am sure a few people would be interested in doing business with him when he gets back into the country. "Wisper300 you got any suggestions on who could make me a good upper setup or who could make a good suppressor upper combo. I would like to have the suppressor 2 point and have it back to the gas block and not off the end of the barrel." Sharpshooter33 Kurt of KKF in Florida has mentioned that he is now working on the .300 uppers. His work seems to be excellent I will be contacting him about a different project later on this year. SSK also has a top notch product you will not be dissapointed in the quality of their work. Someone mentioned that they had some issues in their dealings with them. Myself, I placed my order and received it when it was done. When I had questions they answered them, no problems for me. I beleive 'model one' sales also had a 300 kit for sale but I do not know the quality of their product, mabe someone has first hand experience and can pipe in. As for the silencer issues SSK makes their own and is the parent of the 300whisper so I assume that they have alot of experience with giving you a perfect match. I have seen a few of their whisper AR's that look like the barrel is one piece with the silencer. (really slick and compact). Maybe someone with better first hand experience will pipe in and offer better information than I can provide here. I do not want to mis-inform anyone.
Link Posted: 4/10/2003 7:37:25 AM EDT
Oops, I didn't catch the part that the work was already done! Yea, there is no contest if you are getting formed 300 Fireball brass at that price!!!
Link Posted: 4/11/2003 4:14:26 AM EDT
Quarterbore, The reason I use 223 brass is quite simple, I've got a 5 gallon bucket of it.:) Seriously, I think I read somewhere the 223 case is stronger than the 221 fireball. I've actually got a whole Urban SPR type project I'm working on. I've been trying to push the supersonic side to see what its really capable of. Right now, I'm pushing 147's about 2,150 fps. I haven't started playing with the 125's yet, but we'll see. I'm expecting to get close to 2,300 fps. If so, that would basically give me 7.62x39 ballistics in an AR, but I would still have the versatility of going to subsonic supressed 220's. In your experience, how are the 221's for strength and case capacity? I guess I'll have to buy 100 and try them out and compare velocities. In regards to making 300 whisper from 223, it is a little more time consuming. Some case manufactures do need to have their necks turned, but not all of them. If fizzassist's guy can handle it, I'll buy them from him.
Link Posted: 4/11/2003 5:24:36 AM EDT
I wish I had data to allow us to compare! I have not owned a 300/221 in years as I had an Olympic Upper back in the mid 90s and I never really got it to run before I traded it to someone with more time to play. These days people know how to make these run better and the adjustable gas systems have really helped make things better! I never used 223 brass when I had mine but my experience was limited and it was about 7-yrs ago now! I will try and compare when I get my 300/221 pistol done as I need to get some loads ready for deer season!
Link Posted: 4/11/2003 11:28:50 AM EDT
Very good thread. I am going to get a 300 Fireball upper. I have looked at Model 1 Sales and Del ton. Same price. I have ordered the dies and was thinking of making my own cases from 5.56. I own a machine shop with CNC machines, and was intending to let the machine do the work. If I go that route, what rough size should I cut the cases to before forming? Will any old case do? Thanks Also, would not mind getting in on a group buy!
Link Posted: 4/17/2003 9:21:12 AM EDT
I decided on a flat top upper from Model 1 Sales. I asked about the barrel and was told it was made by Shaw. I also ordered some 221 Fireball brass from Midway USA. I am not familiar with the quality of the barrel or the Model 1 parts. Should be here next week.
Link Posted: 4/17/2003 9:45:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bybon: I decided on a flat top upper from Model 1 Sales. I asked about the barrel and was told it was made by Shaw. I also ordered some 221 Fireball brass from Midway USA. I am not familiar with the quality of the barrel or the Model 1 parts. Should be here next week.
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My Model 1 bbl seems to run fine. It has some eccentricities, like straight pins instead of taper pins on the front sight tower, but I don't have any complaints about it. The price is certainly right!
Link Posted: 4/17/2003 3:37:18 PM EDT
fizassist & Bybon, I'd stay with the model 1 instead of the Del-ton. Del-ton uses Olympic uppers n barrels. Quarterbore could tell you the stories about his in 300 Fireball. I was also looking at the Model 1. They look nice. I looked at them at Knob Creek. I like the Shaw barrels. I was wondering how they do with a variety of ammo fizassist? What have you ran thru it so far? All subsonic or both? I'd like to get a model 1, but I'm holding out for a SSK suppressed 300 Wisper upper. Let me know how yours perform. I may break down and buy one while I'm waiting on my money for the tax stamp upper. [bounce]
Link Posted: 4/17/2003 3:54:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sharpshooter33: I was wondering how they do with a variety of ammo fizassist? What have you ran thru it so far? All subsonic or both?
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The following loads shoot fine and cycle the action with no problems: 220 & 165 gr subsonics 165 & 150 gr supersonics I did some modification to the gas system (moving the port rearward), so it even runs semi-auto on the light 165gr subsonic. Not quite on the 150gr subsonic, though. (The supersonic 150gr load is fine.) For details of my upper, see: [url]http://quarterbore.com/300whisper/rifles/rig007.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 4/17/2003 5:14:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2003 5:15:59 PM EDT by bybon]
Very nice weapon! I imagine I will be needing a new gas tube that is adjustable if I want the rifle to function semi auto with all bullet weights. Fizassist, the person who sold you your brass, is he still in business? Well it looks like I made a good choice going with the Model 1.
Link Posted: 4/17/2003 5:53:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bybon: Fizassist, the person who sold you your brass, is he still in business? Well it looks like I made a good choice going with the Model 1.
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I fired him off an email a while back. As soon as I hear back from him, I'll post here. AFAIK, he's still deployed.
Link Posted: 4/18/2003 11:23:39 AM EDT
We will have to just wait! Would anyone have the OAL of a finished case. I am starting to make some from 5.56 cases and do not have the exact length. Thanks
Link Posted: 4/18/2003 9:56:21 PM EDT
u mean overall length of case? Hodgedon has measurements. I think it's around 34.5mm. Don't quote me on that.
Link Posted: 4/19/2003 5:09:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2003 8:47:57 AM EDT by bybon]
Thank you. I should have checked reloading manuals before I asked the question. Found it: OAL is 1.360 and OAL for a loaded round is 2.265
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 12:42:32 PM EDT
Fizassist- got any word from your supplier? When is he supposed to be back in country? I will make 300 whisper brass from 223 for people if i can get enough people to buy it- around 5,000 rounds at least to start.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 9:52:25 AM EDT
You guys might want to look at this site. He supports AR15.com and has quality parts. I purchased a slim profile S/S match barrel from him in 1/10, didn't want to go subsonic. Great accuracy. I have included his price list and his hints for forming 300 Whisper brass from .223/5.56. I have used his method and it works great. [url]http://ar15barrels.com/prices.shtml[/url] [url]http://ar15barrels.com/forming.shtml[/url]
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 12:52:35 PM EDT
He also sells on ebay.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 2:06:38 PM EDT
if you get someone to make brass, I am most likely in. I got lucky and got my first 1000 for 100 bucks formed and ready to go, but he stopped making 30/221 because it took too much time. I have a gracey and bought a case holder for it and make mine out of federal match brass. I have had very good results. I am having KKF do my next upper, I got in a pinch and sold my old one, and am missing it.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 3:24:25 PM EDT
All right, my source is back in the States, and he said it's ok to give his info out to anyone who's interested. IM or mail me for his address.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 4:13:43 AM EDT
fizassist can u send me the info? Also I bought a Model 1 barrel and just finished up collecting my last couple of parts for my upper(adjustable gas tube and free float tube) I'll let you guys know how it shoots. I've been to busy to finish it. Had the parts since Knob Creek. Been wanting to shoot it just can't get the time to finish it! SPANK ME![spank]
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