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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 7/20/2008 4:53:36 AM EST
I'm looking at upgrading my trigger from my stock Bushmaster single stage to a two stage trigger. I looked at drop-in's, I specifically like the idea of the flat Chip McCormick trigger pack, but was curious how an enclosed trigger pack would hold up to duty use.

I'm afraid a pack type trigger would be more susceptable to damage and peformance problems with a hard use gun if it were to get dirt or other gunk built up within the housing itself.

If this is the case, I'll go with a cheaper traditional design, probably the RRA 2 stage. Anybody have any experience/thoughts on this?

Thanks ahead.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:28:12 PM EST
Why do you want 2 stage? Personally I can't understand why someone would intentionally introduce creep into a system. The CMC's were recalled recently and the IPSC crowd seems have bagged the Timney. The fanbois all love Giselle, but no one has actually posted up a comparison that I've seen. I have a JP in one of my rifles and it's pretty good. I'll be putting one in my other rifle when I get around to putting in a Brownells order. Some like the RRA, but the one I had was crap. Inconsistent between 1lb and 1oz. If I breathed funny it went off. So, it's JP for me. Fitting it is super easy, it only takes 30 mins and no special tools.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:44:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:48:39 PM EST
I really like the RRA NM 2-stage. It's great.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 5:01:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Messiah:
Trigger comparison


Yeah, I read that link. There's actually no comparison in it. He posted up a bunch of pix and a bit of the the usual "excellent fit and finish" gun rag stuff. Where's the pull weights? How did the install go? How did each trigger perform? Take up? Over travel? There aren't any measurements there. Or any real useful information at all, for that matter. It's just a list of makers.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 6:47:04 AM EST
I really like my WOA tuned RRA trigger from ADCO. It's my first and only 2 stage and I don't know if I'd ever buy a different one. I don't see how a Geiselle can be worth 2x the price. Maybe to some people, but not to me at this time.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 6:54:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By quantim2:
I really like my WOA tuned RRA trigger from ADCO. It's my first and only 2 stage and I don't know if I'd ever buy a different one. I don't see how a Geiselle can be worth 2x the price. Maybe to some people, but not to me at this time.


What he said.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 6:57:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 6:57:53 AM EST by TARFU]

Originally Posted By bushflyr:
Why do you want 2 stage? Personally I can't understand why someone would intentionally introduce creep into a system.


The first stage of a 2 stage trigger is not "creep." Does your match tuned 1911 have creep?
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 7:26:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By bushflyr:

Originally Posted By Messiah:
Trigger comparison


Yeah, I read that link. There's actually no comparison in it. He posted up a bunch of pix and a bit of the the usual "excellent fit and finish" gun rag stuff. Where's the pull weights? How did the install go? How did each trigger perform? Take up? Over travel? There aren't any measurements there. Or any real useful information at all, for that matter. It's just a list of makers.


I thought it was a bang up job of a review. How much of a review of a trigger install do you want? It's held on by 2 pins, the Timney has set screws to bind it in place. Most aftermarket triggers have pretty much close to the same pull weights except for the adjustable ones like the Geiselle.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:34:44 AM EST
My reason for purchase is for the shorter reset. I think a long, single stage trigger promotes trigger slap, and that a two stage trigger promotes accuracy and faster follow up shots.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:40:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By bushflyr:
Why do you want 2 stage? Personally I can't understand why someone would intentionally introduce creep into a system. The CMC's were recalled recently and the IPSC crowd seems have bagged the Timney. The fanbois all love Giselle, but no one has actually posted up a comparison that I've seen. I have a JP in one of my rifles and it's pretty good. I'll be putting one in my other rifle when I get around to putting in a Brownells order. Some like the RRA, but the one I had was crap. Inconsistent between 1lb and 1oz. If I breathed funny it went off. So, it's JP for me. Fitting it is super easy, it only takes 30 mins and no special tools.


2 vs single stage is a personal preference. There can be no chart that helps a person decide.

As a person who like take up before trigger break I haven't tried a trigger that compares to the Geissele is high quality, comes with an over-sized hammer pin, you can adjust the first stage weight, second stage weight, over travel, and even as a NOVICE shooter I can tell the lock time is faster. I've fired the Timneys, LMTs, RRAs, Jewells, Williams set etc.

I haven't found a trigger to beat the Geissele in any catagory other than price. At $279.00 it's not the least expensive unit on the market.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:45:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By cybrscream:
My reason for purchase is for the shorter reset. I think a long, single stage trigger promotes trigger slap, and that a two stage trigger promotes accuracy and faster follow up shots.


No, a two stage trigger is more durable and offers an easier "break" than a comparable single of the same total weight. And a two stage is slower on the follow-ups because of increased reset.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:12:45 AM EST
So are they not similar to double action only pistols - such as a glock. A glock trigger being DAO has two distinct stages...

The first requires the majority of the trigger pull before you feel the threshold for the second stage.

The second stage only requires you to cross over the threshold before the gun fires...after that you only have to release the trigger up to the threshold of the second stage to reset the action - which means you don't have to release the trigger all the way back to its full length.

It was my understanding that 2 stage triggers were designed to function similar as to what I just described, which would make follow up shots faster as there is decreased time spent waiting for the trigger to completely reset.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:42:52 AM EST
I have had many of both designs, a jewell, and knight . The single stage JP is the best trigger as it ends the pre-pull slop and has a faster re-set. There is nothing wrong with a RR 2 stage and it will vary in performance from rifle to rifle and casting to castings. The JP just makes a shorter pull and re-set . I know its all personal opinion on what a person likes, but sometimes I wonder about some of the statements and opinions (advice given). You can learn any trigger if the let off is excellent even if it has a slop first stage. http://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPFCP-1
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 1:28:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By cybrscream:
So are they not similar to double action only pistols - such as a glock. A glock trigger being DAO has two distinct stages...

The first requires the majority of the trigger pull before you feel the threshold for the second stage.

The second stage only requires you to cross over the threshold before the gun fires...after that you only have to release the trigger up to the threshold of the second stage to reset the action - which means you don't have to release the trigger all the way back to its full length.

It was my understanding that 2 stage triggers were designed to function similar as to what I just described, which would make follow up shots faster as there is decreased time spent waiting for the trigger to completely reset.


Not any of the 2-stages I have seen. Reset is longer than stock or any single stage.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 4:56:06 PM EST
Exactly. Total pull on my single stage is set at 1/8 inch. Let off and re-set is the same 1/8 inch. Not all single stage triggers need to be adjusted that close but thats the way I like it for target shooting.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 5:44:57 PM EST
Well, if anybody here are glock owners what type of trigger should I purchase for my rifle that is most similar to a glock trigger (or DAO trigger for that matter).

The glock trigger has two stages, but you only have to reset to the top of the second stage for follow up shots - in other words, you only have to pull thru the first stage one time, after that its short 2nd stage pulls only - unless you reset the trigger all the way home.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 11:06:57 AM EST
I talked to a local gunsmith today and he advised that 2-stage triggers are exactly what I thought they were - just like glock triggers. I didn't go to the store and try the trigger out, so he may be giving me bad info. He said the reset for the 2-stage is technically shorter on follow up shots than a single stage because you only have to release the trigger to the top of the 2nd stage of pull for follow up shots. The first pull is longer, because there is intentional take up, but after that shot you only have to release the trigger enough to fire from the 2nd stage - which is exactly like a glock.

Did I get good info from this guy, or am I still not understanding how these dang things work? I don't want to spend money on something I won't like.

Also, I have a 3.5lb connector in my glock and prefer it over the standard glock connector. I feel I shoot faster and consistently more accurate...which is why I want a similar trigger in my sbr.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 11:17:17 AM EST
The RRA/Giselle/MK-II 2-stage design uses the disconnector to provide the second stage feel. The disconnector holds the hammer clear of the primary sear so there is no way that a 2-stage will have less reset travel.

The AR is a hammer design. Glocks are stricker fired. Totally different mechanisms.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 11:21:55 AM EST
So you have to reset the entire length of pull for every shot with a 2 stage trigger?
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 11:22:30 AM EST
And I understand that they are two different firing mechanisms, I just want a trigger with a similar feel - it such exists.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 1:11:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 1:12:57 PM EST by TARFU]

Originally Posted By cybrscream:
So you have to reset the entire length of pull for every shot with a 2 stage trigger?


No you don't have to reset the entire length. I don't believe the Glock is a true 2 stage trigger. The RRA trigger feels more like a 1911 trigger, while to me, the Glock feels like a tuned DAO trigger.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 1:17:31 PM EST
Then I guess that's my answer - I will most likely prefer a 2 stage over my stock Bushmaster single stage - even for duty use.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:24:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By cybrscream:
Then I guess that's my answer - I will most likely prefer a 2 stage over my stock Bushmaster single stage - even for duty use.


Yes I think so. But you better check with the military and police guys here and your dept. if you are a LEO about the risks/benefits/legalities of a lighter trigger on a duty gun.

Its hard to get rid of the creep on a stock single stage trigger because to do so, you have to decrease sear engagement. Obviously, this can only be done to a point where the trigger becomes unsafe. As far as speed, is any gun faster than a tuned 1911 IPSC gun? Once you are familiar with the 2 stage trigger, speed shouldn't be an issue. Its all personal preference.

I love my John Holliger tuned RRA triggers from White Oak Armament.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:35:53 PM EST
I'm from an agency in Texas that is okay with trigger mod's. While they have some rules regarding rifles, they are few in number. Pretty much as long as you take a week long basic rifle school through our agency and are proficient with what you'd like to carr y you are good to go.
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