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Posted: 7/8/2023 7:47:22 AM EDT
I am looking to pick up some ammo for HD for my AR and am curious what your alls opinions are. I have searched around the web and gotten some conflicting results so I figured I would ask here, if this has already been discussed I apologize.

I have the opportunity to get either Speer Gold Dot 223 in the 55, 62, and 75 grain flavor, and Federal Tactical Bonded in either 55 or 62 grain (The LE223T1 and LE223T3 loadings). For now I am looking to snag about 200 rounds of whichever ammo I choose, with the possibility of grabbing more later if needs and budget allow. Which of these would y'all go with?

Also, while I would consider all of the above loads to be within my budget, both varieties of the Federal ammo are appx. $50 more for the 200 rounds vs the price of the Gold Dots. Does either of the Federal loads offer a increase in performance over the Gold Dots?

FWIW my practice load and "stockpile" ammo is M193, usually either IMI M193, Winchester M193 (the WM193K load), or the Frontier M193. The AR in question is a 14.5 carbine gas BCM that has yet to give me an issue. Mags to be used in are mostly Gen 3 Pmags.

Thanks in advance folks
VP
Link Posted: 7/8/2023 8:02:33 AM EDT
[#1]
Self Defense Ammunition Choices


Check out this video. At the end of the day I don’t think it will make much of a difference.
Link Posted: 7/8/2023 8:02:37 AM EDT
[#2]
My own precision tests indicate Gold Dots were more accurate.
Link Posted: 7/8/2023 9:42:35 AM EDT
[#3]
I've shot a lot of 75gr Gold Dot. It's very accurate and consistently performs well in gel, hogs, and people. The only downside is the trajectory is very different than 55gr ammo.

When I did accuracy testing on the 75gr GD, the 10-shot groups were half the size of the 62gr GD. That was years ago when the 75gr was brand new, so the 62gr might be better now.

While the 75gr is optimized for shorter barrels, all three loads are supposed to be good terminal performers. Unless you're looking for a SPR style round, you may to go with the 55gr to match the exterior performance of your other ammo.
Link Posted: 7/8/2023 10:00:06 AM EDT
[#4]
Look up the AAC 75 grain black tips that PSA sells.  Ive been testing them and so far they are excellent.   Great energy transfer and explosive frs
fragmentation.   The weight retention isnt great 55-60% but they also do.not over penetrate.   Also run $10/20
Link Posted: 7/8/2023 10:02:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Both are quality. Save the $50, and time spent debating with yourself.
Link Posted: 7/8/2023 1:26:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 7/8/2023 3:50:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Aren't the .223 Federal Fusion rounds essentially similar to the .223 GDHP as well?
Link Posted: 7/8/2023 3:54:19 PM EDT
[#8]
I haven’t been able to find any of the 62 or 75 grain Gold Dots either online or in person. Would you mind pointing me in the right direction to find them?
Link Posted: 7/9/2023 8:23:21 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I haven’t been able to find any of the 62 or 75 grain Gold Dots either online or in person. Would you mind pointing me in the right direction to find them?
View Quote


The site I found them on is Bone Frog Gun Club. You do have to be a member to purchase, but they have a pretty decent selection.
Link Posted: 7/9/2023 9:52:31 AM EDT
[#10]
I'd figure out what kind your rifle(s) shoots best and stock that.  
Some rifles that can shoot 5.56 still shoot 223 better.  Some prefer a certain bullet weight.  Shorter barrels are generally best served with heavier bullets, but see how yours do.  Sometimes twist rates can come into play.  Just see what works best and buy that.  

That said, I do like the nickel plated cases for rounds that will be stored loaded in magazines.  The gold dots have that.  Some of the more tactical loads don't.
Link Posted: 7/9/2023 1:04:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Thank you! I just bought some of the 62 grain Gold Dots from them. Looks like they won’t ship for a week or more, though.
Link Posted: 7/9/2023 7:45:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Look up the AAC 75 grain black tips that PSA sells.  Ive been testing them and so far they are excellent.   Great energy transfer and explosive frs
fragmentation.   The weight retention isnt great 55-60% but they also do.not over penetrate.   Also run $10/20
View Quote


Any gel tests out of a shorter barrel? Been eyeballing them
Link Posted: 7/9/2023 10:53:01 PM EDT
[#13]
My Dept has issued Fed Tac 55gr for several years and it’s a solid performer

A few years ago I was part of the testing to reevaluate our ammunition selection

We tested a variety of rounds and found the heavier projectiles were generally better performing

For our short barrel guns 10.5 to 12.5 we found 75gr Gold Dot was the best on bare gel and with intermediate barriers

For the 14.5 to 16” guns you’d do well with the 62gr Fed Tac
Link Posted: 7/10/2023 5:28:57 PM EDT
[#14]
yeah I got the same notification, oh well, they will be here soon enough
Link Posted: 7/11/2023 11:34:50 PM EDT
[#15]
All my guns love 62 and 64gr Gold Dots. Small tight groups. 55s not so much. 75s were good as well but I stacked deep with 62s and 64s.
Bone Frog is good to go
Link Posted: 7/12/2023 10:50:14 AM EDT
[#16]
Thanks for the input so far folks, keep it coming. As for now I have picked up 200 rounds of the 55 grain gold dots, once they come in I will do some testing and see how they perform and ill leave an update below
Link Posted: 7/21/2023 10:41:52 PM EDT
[#17]
I have seen a few deer and alot of people shot with 55gr federal Tac bonded 55gr from 16 in and 20 in rifles. Works phenomenal. Never had an issue. Even seen a few shooting from 10.5’s and it worked well with them too.
Link Posted: 8/9/2023 12:58:45 PM EDT
[#18]
I just wish I could find the 62g fusion/GD projectiles so I could roll my own.
Link Posted: 8/9/2023 3:52:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

When I did accuracy testing on the 75gr GD, the 10-shot groups were half the size of the 62gr GD.
View Quote

That's odd because the genuine 62/64 grain Gold Dot factory loads are usually very close to the 75 grain Gold Dot factory loads in accuracy.

Speer 62 grain Gold Dot Accuracy, Velocity and Terminal Ballistics


Speer 75 grain Dold Dot Accuracy and Velocity


....





Link Posted: 8/9/2023 5:04:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I just wish I could find the 62g fusion/GD projectiles so I could roll my own.
View Quote



https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0002122462gdb/22-caliber-point224-diameter-62-grain-speer-gold-dot-soft-point-rifle-bullets-100-count

Don't say I never did anything for you...
Link Posted: 8/11/2023 3:44:23 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

All my guns love 62 and 64gr Gold Dots. Small tight groups.
View Quote

And hand-loading the 62 grain Gold Dots has produced some truly remarkable precision for a bonded soft point bullet fired from an AR-15.  The graphic below shows the results of over-laying two 5-shot groups that were loaded with two different powder charges 0.5 grains apart.  The 10-shot composite group has an extreme spread of 0.699".






...
Link Posted: 8/12/2023 9:27:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

That's odd because the genuine 62/64 grain Gold Dot factory loads are usually very close to the 75 grain Gold Dot factory loads in accuracy.

Speer 62 grain Gold Dot Accuracy, Velocity and Terminal Ballistics


Speer 75 grain Dold Dot Accuracy and Velocity


....





View Quote

I went back to look at some of the pictures of the testing that we did 5 years ago, and I may be thinking of the 62gr Federal American Eagle compared to the (at the time) new 75gr American Eagle. We had switched from 64gr Gold Dot to the 75gr Gold Dot a few years prior when we authorized short barreled rifles. We used the American Eagle as practice rounds and ended up switching to the 75gr AE once it was available.

Attachment Attached File


I still have a little of the 64gr Gold Dot on the shelf, so I'll have to test it out.
Link Posted: 8/12/2023 11:08:30 PM EDT
[#23]
Dunno about the tactical bonded but I’ve always had great luck with GD 55 and 75’s. It’s almost always good for 1.5 MOA or better across anything I’ve tested it in that’s capable of such precision, and it’s always killed whitetail just fine.
Link Posted: 8/12/2023 11:16:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Aren't the .223 Federal Fusion rounds essentially similar to the .223 GDHP as well?
View Quote



I think so.
Link Posted: 8/14/2023 7:48:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Aren't the .223 Federal Fusion rounds essentially similar to the .223 GDHP as well?
View Quote


They use the same bullet.  The LE Gold Dot line reportedly receives a higher level of quality control.






Federal 62 Grain Fusion vs Federal 62 Grain Fusion MSR vs Speer LE 62 Grain Gold Dot





The muzzle velocities shown in the tables below were obtained back-to-back during the same chronograph session using recent lots of all three of the Fusion/Gold Dot loads chrongographed.

Atmospheric Conditions

Temperature:  73 degrees F (plus or minus one degree)
Barometric Pressure:  29.68 inches of Hg
Humidity:  62%
Altitude:  950 feet above sea level  


Muzzle velocities from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7” twist.





Muzzle velocities from a 14.5 Noveske N4 light barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7’ twist.





10-shot groups were fired from one of my precision AR-15s with a Lothar-Walther barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8” twist.  The groups were fired from the bench at a distance of 100 yards with the same sight settings on the scope for each of the three groups.











...
Link Posted: 8/15/2023 5:32:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Aren't the .223 Federal Fusion rounds essentially similar to the .223 GDHP as well?
View Quote


Are They The SAME THING?...Gold Dot vs Fusion AR-15 Self-Defense AMMO Test!
Link Posted: 10/4/2023 8:30:28 AM EDT
[#27]
From what I have read (here mostly from Molon), loads using the TCCB (Trophy Bonded Bear Claw) bullet are the best in terminal performance. They work best through barriers also. This is the bullet used in the Federal Tactical Bonded loads. The bottom of the bullet should have a "T" stamped into it. I have verified this.

So for pure terminal performance, go with the Fed. Tac. Bonded loads. I use and prefer the .223 load using 55gr since it gives me MUCH better accuracy than the 62gr, probably due more to the loading though (223 .vs 556) rather than the bullet itself. With the 55 (223 load) I have gotten some MOA groups (5 shot) while with the 62gr (556 loading) I would cheer if I get 3 MOA! Gold Dots (55, 62, and 64) give me around 1.5MOA pretty consistently.

Ultimately try a few different loads in your guns and see which they/you prefer. I dont think you can go wrong with either the Tac. Bonded or the Gold Dots unless accuracy is your main concern. Also, you may not be able to find all the various loads in stock so you get what you can find. Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/4/2023 9:29:24 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
From what I have read (here mostly from Molon), loads using the TCCB (Trophy Bonded Bear Claw) bullet are the best in terminal performance. They work best through barriers also. This is the bullet used in the Federal Tactical Bonded loads.

So for pure terminal performance, go with the Fed. Tac. Bonded
View Quote

The tbbc is not "the best" for terminal ballistics after intervening barriers.  It is one of the best.  The Nosler 64 grain BSB used in the FBI load has the same terminal ballistic properties as the tbbc and the nosler bullet is much more consistently accurate than the tbbc, particularly when handloaded.



...
Link Posted: 10/9/2023 4:27:53 PM EDT
[#29]
I love Speer. I have only used the 62 grain loading but it always shot very respectable groups and amazing terminal effect on 80-100 lb hogs. If Speer is cheaper no way i would personally spend more on something else.
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