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Posted: 11/19/2008 7:50:48 PM EDT
I'm looking to build an AR for varmint hunting, but I'm not particularly excited about a bull barrel.  I want to build something with a wider range of uses, including shooting from a standing position.  From the posts I've read, if I want to use the gun for much more than benchrest shooting, I should avoid the 24"?

What other options are there for 20" barrels?  I'd like something a little more mobile without sacrificing accuracy.  Does such a barrel exist?  Also, would there be any need for a flash suppressor on a 20 inch barrel?  I know it's said to give up some accuracy...
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 8:21:57 PM EDT
It sounds to me like a 16" M4 Profile Barrel would do you best from what you say. "uses, including shooting from a standing position." but if you want a 20" you can always go for a 20" HBAR. They are not Bull Barrels but you can tell the the difference from a gov profile to a HBAR for sure. I use a 16" HBAR on my "SPR" I guess you can call it.. Its a Armalite Middy with a ACOG, FF HandGuards, FVG, ect ect.. and I can really tell the difference. I was at the local gun shop the other day when I went to pick up my M&P 15 lower, and I have a Del-Ton 16" M4 Profile, 1/7 twist Crome lined upper on the way. I felt how light the stock upper was and I had to get one.. I will just keep it stock with a EOTech on it for Fast Close range shooting within 100 yards..

But yeah I will tell you this, I see alot of match shooter going with 20" bull Barrels, they just get used to it, they are much more easy to deal with recoil, and they are going to shoot better for sure.. but like I said from the sounds of it you just want a good plinking/SHTF gun.. I would say check out Del-Ton's uppers they just got them back in stock today.. they had everything sold out.. they make good uppers and they use Wilson barrels.. they will shoot 1" groups with the right ammo for sure but that goes with just about any AR-15.. do you have another AR? or do you just want this one to be a all in one kinda deal. if you do then 16",20".. its up to you.. for me I have my bench/mid/long range gun.. and Im waiting for my Upper to come so I can have a nice light stock gun.. I for some reason just want a stock gun with a EoTech.. I have my other gun all tweeked out and I will be even doing more to it.. for me I would say if this gun is going to be used for all around shooting standing, CQ, Prone, Bench, off hand most of the time.. then a you just gotta pick 16" or 20" both will be good as long as they are good barrels.. as for the profile that is up to you.. I like my HBAR but I would not want one in 20" thats for sure..  GL
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 8:31:40 PM EDT
Originally I wanted a m4 style, as well as a 24" varmint.  well, the total price tag kept adding up, so I'm interested in building one that will suit both needs.  

Thanks for the heads up on del-ton.  I had written them off thinking they were too far behind...

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 9:40:14 PM EDT
hehe the black rifle disease is creeping up on you just like the symbiote suit crawled toward peter parker.

why not just do a 20 inch, nice adjustable stock,   you could always go with a red dot/magnifier too.  picture gallery probably has 10 setups you'd like to copy.

My personal route was a m4 (del-ton) with red dot. mainly a nice farm rifle/SHTF rifle.  

2nd rifle is gonna be a 20 HBAR for the varmints and targets.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 10:02:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 1:24:32 AM EDT by RustyKnight]
I went the 20" route for building my first AR-type rifle. Wanted all around rifle with long-range capabilities I simply didn't feel I'd adequately get with a 16" or even 18." I don't anticipate doing a lot of building clearing or close-quarters combat, though I do like the telescoping stock configuration I've chosen as it does allow me a decent cheek weld for (fingers crossed) bench-rest consistency while still permitting short configure for ready-carry (not that it's likely I'll need much of that).

I went with a heavy, not bull, barrel and a free-floating handguard. By using removable/swappable risers for mounting my holographic sight AND a scope, along with folding BUIS, I find I really do have a nice variety of alternate configurations to adapt into. (Yes, Jack-of-all-trades, master of none may characterize my rifle, but...nothing to do with my rifle is "mission critical" in my life. I'd probably choose something else for a SHTF rifle, so, mine is purely for fun and 'cause I wanted one.)

And...yes, I'd likely remove the light & laser for less barrel interference when attempting optimal accuracy.

Good luck with your project.

Here's mine...I'm almost finished:


Link Posted: 11/19/2008 10:28:46 PM EDT
the pics thread will mess you up, it did for me.. any my first rifle, well not really like I said I love my 16" Middy, FF rail, TA31F, LaRue FVG, Magpul CRT Stock, Ergo SureGrip.. and I will be adding a flip up front sight block.. But on this Del-Ton, It will be pretty stock. I will be getting the Ergo SureGrip for sure, once you try it and compare it to the A2 pistol grip its a must have, but yeah Del-ton makes very good uppers and the fact you can build them how you want it helps a bit, lets say you dont want a crome lined barrel if you believe it hurts the group size then you can go with out it. and you can pick from alot of FF handguards and front sights.. but like I said I have my uber tactial HBAR, now I just want somthing with that stock M4 look and a EOTech.. and for the Price Del-Ton offers is crazy, much better then RRA and you get True M4 feed ramps ect ect.. but RRA and Del-Ton do both use the same barrels.. and wilson backs them up by 1 moa  and and there match grade barrels at .75 MOA when you are standing up shooting off hand at 100 yards you will not notice it much at all.. but if you have a high power scope and a Match grade SS barrel that will shoot half MOA, and you can shoot that good then you might.. but I cant out shoot my barrel at 1 MOA so to me it is fine.. but yeah the reason I bring up del-ton is just the other day they where all sold out, now they are taking orders.. and they offer very good CS to go along with there uppers..

But yeah thats a good idea on the 20" with a adjustable stock..

and btw Superbowtie, how do you like your Del-Ton upper? like I said I have only heard good things about them. and alot of the guys that own them along with other mid range AR's (CMMG,LMT,RRA,COLT,ArmaLite,Stag)ect,ect.. say they like the Del-ton uppers just as much as there LMT or CMMG.. these rifles all being in the same range.. only thing some of them down have are true M4 Feed ramps or Crome lined barrels..

I just cant wait to have my M4grey setup, but since it is a custom order it will take like 2 weeks to ship I believe.. could be longer with the high demand but like I said I will post on how the upper turns out.. I was going to go with another mid lenth but I really wanted the nice stock look of the M4..
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 10:41:49 PM EDT
20" Bushmaster H-bar w/ 3x Leupold scope:


I usually shoot inside of 2"/100  yards.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:48:58 AM EDT
20" Stainless Steel match type heavy barrel paired to a free floating handguard and done right, will get you into sub minute of accuracy territory.
See above picture.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 10:03:56 AM EDT
rusty knight- i love your rifle!  What parts did you use to put it together?  I like the barrel... is the muzzle break threaded on?

I appreciate the responses!  VERY nice rifles.  And yes, the disease has hit.  I'm trying to justify 3 or 4 rifles; 2 for me, one for wife to be, 1 for a son one day... let's just get back to the one I need for now.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:30:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 12:15:21 PM EDT by RustyKnight]
Originally Posted By uhcoog1:
rusty knight- i love your rifle!  What parts did you use to put it together?  I like the barrel... is the muzzle break threaded on?



Yes...the barrel did come complete with a screw on muzzle break. Bought it off Gunbroker.com for $120 + ship. Here's how the description read:

New Heavy AR-15 .223 Caliber Barrel, Chrome-Molly Steel, Fully chambered. It Weighs 3lbs. 5oz with compensator, has a 1 in 9 Twist.

I have sold over 100 of them and have had nothing but praise from the buyers. Have a lot of repeat buyers. See my Feed Back for their comments!

I was told by the Distributor that it us US Made but they had to promise the Mfg. to never tell thier name! For this reason it has no markings of any kind on it. It has no name because the Mfg. made a big mistake and made a huge huge over run of these barrels, 2000 of them! So they wholesaled them out to this large Company from which I bought the last couple of hundred they had. That is why I can sell them so cheaply!

These barrels sell for twice this much and more and the Mfg. did not want anyone to know they made them because it would undermine their future sales to their regular large customers if they found out that these had been sold at such low prices. These are not rejects or anything, they are top of the line barrels! I had one put on my AR-15 and I can hit bottle caps at 200 yards, off a rest with a 24 power scope of course.

Measurements are as follows, from rear diameter is 1" to the flange then steps down to .976 for 1 7/8 inches, then down to .9445 for nest 10 1/8 inches, then down to .750 at gas port hole for 1 7/8 inches then down to .725 for 4 3/4 inches then the threads are 1/2 inch long and are 1/2X28 threads per inch. With compensator length is 21 1/2 inches. The Compensator is 2 inches long ans has 12 holes in it.


My stripped upper was similar find on GunBroker.com. Description:

new, rare AR-15 Numbered Flat top upper receivers. These are purchased direct from the Military contractor that supplies the US ARMY. These uppers are very hard to get a hold of! They are mil-spec and have the military RAS numbers in the top rail and a small front pivot pin hole.

Here's a parts list. Sorry for the lack of formatting. I simply grabbed a few columns from the Excel spreadsheet I use to track the project. (No time to make it pretty for ya):

Item       Source       Cost
Superior Arms S-15 ReceiverAA, EL GUNS$94.00
AR-15 20" Heavy Barrel + Compensator GB, dstamps$120.00
AR-15 Flat-top Upper ReceiverGB, Jacks-Black-Rifle-Shop$76.99
AR15 See-Thru Riser Mount , Picatinny and STANAG GB, noveltyguns$20.00
AR15 Accu Wedge BufferGB, m1surplus.com$2.47
HOGUE AR15 & M16 Finger Groove 15000 Grip GB, www.efgfirearms.com$18.00
AR-15 Carbine Cheek Pad Rest Riser GB, Cannonball888 $7.99
AR 15 6POSTION COLLAPSIBLE STOCKGB, Sherry101$45.00
AR-15 Rifle Gas Tube and PinGB, schluderm$17.00
AR 15 M4 Rubber Recoil PadGB, Sherry101$10.00
AR-15 DPMS free float tube 1pc handguard GB, gunslinger454$38.00
UTG AR-15 Deluxe Quad-Rail Barrel MountGB, Sherry101$18.00
Tactical RIFLE CASE 42" w zipper pocket NEW 3 colors!eBay, shoremusictrade$9.50
CAA M4 style stock saddle blk NIBGB, Tin Star Shooting Range$15.99
Removable carry handle AR15  w/rear sight GB, Seller: tinger75 $19.05
DPMS AR-15 Pistol Grip Plug GB, Seller: falcon1995$4.00
DPMS AR-15 Lower Parts KitOFF GB, Seller: Jack's Black Rifle Shop$46.99
DPMS AR-15 Upper Parts KitOFF GB, Seller: Jack's Black Rifle Shop$12.00
UTG Tactical Picatinny Rail Covers 4 Short Sections NEWeBay, kombinalong$3.50
UTG Tactical Flip-up Rear Sigh (MNT-951)eBay, amberbockdark$19.99
UTG Tactical Removable Front Sight MNT-750 eBay, kmsugarland$23.50
AR-15 Gas Block OFF GB, Seller: cleaning_my_shop_out$17.50
NCSTAR LASEReBay, ultimatearms$19.99
Hammers Tactical Sniper Short Scope (Illuminated AR, 5x42 Mildot)eBay, uniflameindustries$29.00
SWATFORCE Flashlight Tactical LighteBay, ultimatearms$19.95

LEGEND:
GB = GunBroker.com
AA = AuctionArms.com

Also got a (not shown in picture): Removable carry handle AR15  w/rear sight GB, Seller: tinger75 $19.05


By being diligent and creative with my purchasing, I've only spent $898.52 and that INCLUDES some extras listed above (couple of parts I bought, then bought different AND a FREE OKO Holo-sight a SWAT gave me at the range. Also, by buying out of state exclusively, I've not paid sales tax.

Good luck with yours.

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:40:52 AM EDT
18 INCH!!!!
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 12:03:48 PM EDT


Bushmaster HBAR & Colt Lightweight 20
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 9:54:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Battl3fr0nt:



and btw Superbowtie, how do you like your Del-Ton upper? like I said I have only heard good things about them. and alot of the guys that own them along with other mid range AR's (CMMG,LMT,RRA,COLT,ArmaLite,Stag)ect,ect.. say they like the Del-ton uppers just as much as there LMT or CMMG.. these rifles all being in the same range.. only thing some of them down have are true M4 Feed ramps or Crome lined barrels..
.


 My del-ton is just as good as anything I've ever seen in that price range, and I think its more internals that separate it from the upper class of rifles. Have I killed terrorists with it and shot a thousand rounds a day in some unrealistic rambo trial ....nope.    Do I trust it to defend my life?    hell yeah.   I've never had a issue out of it yet.  I do wish del-ton had a wider selection of barrels like J&t or model 1 sales does or maybe offer sabre defence, and WOA barrels.  As far as finish, I dura-coated my upper 10 minutes after pulling it from the package so that didn't get looked at too much.  I also got chrome lined for ease of cleaning too. ergo ambi grip will be the only grip I go with forever.  My 50 yard groups with my current sights are all quarter sized and I can only wonder what it would do with a a proper scope.   Just be forewarned  del-ton rubs a rag that is infested with black-rifle desease all over their kits and uppers.  8 people I know now want ar15's after handling mine.

only think i'll change is the trigger i'm going with the J P Enterprise ADJUSTABLE TRIGGER KIT and i'll probably change the handguard to a POF p-4x predator rail (wicked looking)  Just might go eotech/magnifier in the future.
http://e.imagehost.org/0979/my_rifle.jpg
my next rifle after this mad gun craze dies down will be a custom 20 to 24 inch rifle because my friends decided after I bought my M4 they wanted bull barrel, long range varmint/target guns. reason to get another, is friendly competition.
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