might pick up a noveske upper w/ 1-7 twist.i have a few thousand rounds of 55 grn.is 1/7 to fast for this bullet?

I shot some 55gr FMJ IMI through my Bravo Co midlength (1-in7) last week –– ~3.25" groups at 200 yards.  

mine will shoot in a 3/4 inch dot at 25 yards

Sabre 11.5 inch 1:7 with PMC Bronze 55 grain = 1.25 inch groups at 100 yards.

I shoot 55 gr bullets out of my Colt 6920 all the time and accuracy is fine......but heavier bullets will tend to shoot better in 1/7 twist rifles.Different brands of ammo will shoot larger or smaller groups through different rifles ,you just have to experiment to see which ammo shoots better through your particular rifle.

Did you research this at all?
Some say it spins itself to death after leaving the barrel
458

All of my 1/7s shoot 55gr just fine.

no its fine

any bad accuracy will be from the fact 55 grain FMJ is a shitty  round for accuracy, not from twist

here is 40 graisn with a 1/7 twist

itll be fine. although it will shoot 77gr better than a 1/9.

1:7 is not too fast for 55gr.

Three in less that half a dime at 25 in my son's new Spikes. I'm in the same boat with tons of 55gr Hornady handloads. His Oly loved them. I'm loading heavier for the Spikes though.

Yep.  I bought a case of Malaysian M193 ball and it's all over the map when shooting from my Colt 6551.  It's much better than throwing rocks but it's far from MOA.  Not the case from all 55gr ball or HP though.

Wow, that's about a 1.5" three shot group at 100.

Someone must hate Molon and 87GN, as they've both, as well as others on twist rates and bullets.
Yet there is no Tacked Post.

Never mind.... No one reads them anyway
458

My 1/7 loves it.

It should be fine, but in my experience with some fast twist barrels shooting light bullets, you will get a bunch of shots right on top of each other, and then it will sling one out of the group.  Or sometimes it will double group.  Where some shots are in a tight cluster, and then other shots are in a tight cluster, but away from the others.  Slowing the twist down or using a heavier bullet seems to eliminate that problem at least in AR's anyway.  The problem seems to be more pronounced in the larger calibers though.  .458 SOCOM, 440 Corbon, 50AE, etc.

It is interesting to note the above post showing the group with 40gr Noslers.  That one bullet seems to shoot fantastic in any and all rifles, regardless of twist, length, velocity, whatever.  I don't know what it is about that particular bullet, but I have never found any gun that didn't shoot great using that bullet.

Tony

Don't wanna start my own thread but I have a similar question.
I just acquired 800 rounds of federal power shok HP 50 grain ammo. I only have 2 ar15s, a 14.5 noveske chrome lined and a 18" woa stainless, both 1/7 twist. will this ammo rip apart after leaving the barrel? can I expect decent accuracy?

Thanks.

I have had some shoot 55 fine, really comes down to the "hotness" of the round. I had a 1:7 20" that just would not group 55, I think you are fine in most carbines but in 20" when shooting a hot round and the barrel increases the velocity you will see unstable bullets.

I was trying to group some XM-193 out of a colt 1/7 20" today and getting awful groups at 100.  What a waste of ammo.  I'm going to try again next weekend with 855.  This is a brand new colt barrel, so I would hate to think this is the best it is going to do.

I didn't actually measure any of the groups as I was so discouraged, but I would imagine they were around 3-4" at 100.



 

this Noveske 1/7 likes 55 grain just fine.
It is even better with 77 grain but with 55 it is still a tack driver.

An increase in muzzle velocity will result in an increase in rotational velocity, which increases the gyroscopic stability factor and makes the bullet more stable in flight, not less stable.

It never ceases to amaze me that when people get poor results using one of the most inaccurate types of ammunition available, they want to blame the twist of the barrel.

I was unaware it was one of the most inaccurate types of ammo available before today.  I would assume many others are int the same boat,





 

I wasn't aware it was considered accurate
It's Ball ammo, and manufactured as such.  
458

I have a 16" Noveske SS 1/7 middy.   It shoots 55 grn ball ammo just fine.  I've shot about 1k rounds of Fiocchi 55 FMJ and over 500 rounds of PPU '193.

Just don't expect tack driver accuracy with bulk ammo... 2 - 3 inch groups at 100 is good.

I have 4,800 rds. of Fed. L.C. XM193 and a N4 1x7,  DCS 1x9 and Colt SP1 all 3 get 1" too1.5" moa.

The following demonstration compares the results of firing four 10-shot groups of the same lot of 55 grain Prvi Partizan M193 ammunition from two different barrels; one barrel with a 1:9” twist, the other barrel with a 1:7” twist.  The first barrel used in testing was 16” Colt HBAR with chrome lining, a NATO chamber and a 1:9” twist.  The second barrel used in testing was a 20” Colt HBAR, also with chrome lining, a NATO chamber and of course a 1:7” twist.  The longer barrel with the 1:7” twist was purposely chosen for the increased muzzle velocity coupled with the 1:7” twist.  Both barrels had free-float handguards.

Accuracy testing was conducted from a distance of 100 yards following my usual protocol.  The fore-ends of the weapons rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest and the butt-stock rode in a Protektor rear-bag. Sighting was accomplished via a Leupold VARI-X III set at 25X magnification and adjusted to be parallax-free at 100 yards. A mirage shade was attached to the objective-bell of the scope. Naturally, the wind conditions were monitored using a Wind Probe. The set-up was very similar to that pictured below.





Four 10-shot groups of the PPU M193 were fired from the 1:9” twist barrel.  Those groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 40-shot composite group.  The mean radius of that composite group was 1.08”.  

As with the 1:9” twist, four 10-shot groups were fired from the 1:7” twist barrel.  Those groups were also also over-layed on each other to form a 40-shot composite group that had a mean radius of 1.01”.  The two composite groups are shown side by side for comparison.






So much for the often posted nonsense about 1:7” twist barrels making 55 grain FMJ bullets “unstable.”


Quality 55 grain bullets can shoot superbly from a 1:7" twist barrel. 55 grain full metal jacket bullets do not fall into the quality category, so any comparison made using 55 grain FMJ bullets with heavier open tip match bullets is nonsense.

The 10-shot group pictured below was fired from a distance of 100 yards from a Noveske barreled AR-15 with a 1:7” twist.  




The 3-shot group pictured below was fired from the same 1:7” twist barrel for the Internet Commandos in our viewing audience.






The next 10-shot group pictured was fired from a Krieger barreled AR-15 with a 1:7.7” twist.




Barrels with 1:7" twists can shoot bullets as light in weight as 40 grains without issue, as long as it is a modern, quality 40 grain bullet, such as the Hornady 40 grain V-MAX.





Here's another example of just how well a 1:7" twist barrel can shoot light weight bullets. While the group pictured below was fired from a distance of only 50 yards, it's a 10-shot group fired from a chrome lined, NATO chambered Colt barrel with a 1:7" twist using 52 grain Sierra MatchKings.




The 10-shot group pictured below was fired from a 20" government profile Colt barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7" twist. That's about as good as a group as you will see from this type of barrel and it did it with 55 grain BlitzKings.





Even a 14.5" Colt M4 barrel with its NATO chamber, chrome lining and 1:7" twist can shoot quality 55 grain bullets quite well.





Yet another example of how well 55 grain bullets can do from a 1:7" twist barrel. This time from the 16" version of the Noveske N4 light barrel that is also chrome lined and NATO chambered.







Here’s one last example of light weight bullets shooting well from a fast twist barrel. The projectile used this time was the 50 grain Hornady V-MAX.

My 1/7 BCM chews a small, ragged hole with XM193 at fitty

I have had no problem shooting 55gr from any of my 1/7 barrels.  Off hand I can keep 10 shots in a 3" circle at 50 yards.  Stellar?  No.  Capable of hitting center mass?  You betcha!

Molon, how come I can never see any of the pics you post?????????

I guess every rifle should come with a warning - shooting military grade full metal jacket bullets will result in poor performance.

3" to 4" groups at 100 yards is typical of many lots of surplus ammo. Always has been. Some lots will shoot considerably better in some rifles, but this is by far the usual result for most shooters. Anything marked fmj pretty much sucks.

The only fmj bullet I would tell people to try is Hornady's 55 fmj, available for very good prices in bulk packs of 6000. Handloaded and tuned to your rifle you may get much better groups than the store bought fair.

Not long ago I was accused or was it acussed? of being a bullet snob on this forum for denegrating the holy fmj. I don't care what other people shoot in their rifles, but if you want small groups go with a match quality bullet.

For dirt clods and beer cans nothing works better than a fmj.

Fixed the first part for you.  M-118 was considered very good at one time.  Then those modern bullets came along.
The FMJ can be very accurate, at shorter ranges.  No reason not to use it or blame the weapon for not being a tack driver
458

My 16" Centurion 1:7 was hitting the 200yd gong (16") all day long yesterday with realy cheap 55gr S&B. I get better groups with 62-75 but hey, to make noise and practice mechanics how accurate do you need to be?

Your problem was the XM193, it has to be the worst grouping ammo I have ever shot out of my AR. I routinely get better groups with Brown Bear...

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You CANNOT shoot 55gr through a 1/7. The twist rate will turn the bullet into a fine talcum like powder.

Your best bet is to send me the rest of your 55gr rounds for proper disposal.

It will probably still shoot way better than you do.  All my 1/7 barrels have love plain old 55gr FMJBT projectiles.  The only downside you might see in practice is that the lighter bullet will have about twice as much wind drift as something in the 75gr range, but that certainly isn't the barrel's fault.

M193 is a mil spec round.  1:7 twist is the mil spec twist.  I believe it's supposed to work.

From what I understand, you really can't spin a bullet too fast.  The caveat to that is when you are using light varmint type bullets with thin jackets.  Some of those will vaporize themselves.  The problem with shooting light bullets out of fast twist barrels isn't with the twist, but with the projectiles.  If you are using ammo with quality 55gr projectiles, a 1:7 twist barrel will likely give you some pretty good groups.  If you are shooting cheap projectiles that aren't "balanced", the extra spin speed just exagerates the imbalance of the projectile in flight and will result in a worse group than you might get out of a similar barrel with a slower twist.  An anology would be a washing machine going through it's spin cycle.  When every thing in the drum is balanced out pretty well, it spins smoothly with little vibration.  If the load isn't distributed evenly, it shakes, wobbles and vibrates.  It's the same with a bullet.

As for the group sizes that you get with M193, M855 or any surplus military surplus or mil spec round, they aren't, on average, going to be good.  I have shot the occassional "good" group with mil spec ammo, but that more the exception to the rule and can't be done with any consistency.

If you want to shoot good groups, you're going to have to load your own with some good projectiles or go with some good .223 ammo.  I believe that mil spec ammo is only expected to shoot to 2 MOA at best.  I've been shooting Prvi 75gr lately and like it.  I just got in 200 rounds of the Hornady 75gr training ammo and am going to try it out tomorrow.

My 1/7 GG&G works fine with Wolf 55 Grain.  It's cheap so I'm not shooting for accuracy, but it's not terrible either.

BTW, if you want to try some light rounds, I've had pretty good luck with Black Hill 52gr (I think) hollow points.  The wind drags 'em around like kites at longer distances, but they've been fine out to around 100 yards.

Not even from the machine rested, bolt-actioned test barrels used at Lake City.

Here is a quote from Black Magic regarding the accuracy of 55 grain FMJ bullets:

"For accuracy usage, the 55 grain FMJ is an evil bullet... Under sufficient magnification, it wouldn't surprise me a bit to find a small "666" tattooed into its shiny little ogival head. Abandon all hope, ye who seek tiny groups here!"

Awesome group!  I occaissonly get one like that too with the Hornady bullet, but when I average in the 10-shot group before it and the 10- shot group after it, I'm back up  above MOA.  What did your groups before and after that one look like?

I'll second the recommendation to not use FMJ bullets if you want great accuracy; factory M193 ball in particular.
On widener's website they have the Hornady 55gr softpoint w/ cannelure bullets for a dollar
per 1000 more than the Hornady FMJ bullets.

My dad and I both use this bullet in almost all the .223 we load; it's almost the same price as cheap FMJ bullets
but they're more accurate and you can also use them for hunting, not just plinking beer cans or whatever.

Yesterday I shot these out of my Colt 6920 (which has a 1 in 7" twist as well) and I fired 12 shots into a 7" group
at 300 yards from the prone position resting the rifle across a backpack. At 100 yards from a bench with a 10 power scope, this load will shoot
about 1.5" groups from that rifle. 55 grain bullets of good quality will do
just fine in a 1 in 7 barrel if you do your part.

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