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Posted: 4/30/2011 6:05:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2011 6:11:49 PM EDT by Sobreviviente08]
Sorry for another post begging for info! (This is my third recent post)-

I have moved from wanting the 16" carbine style to wanting a tube shrouded "Varminter"- Bushmaster, Remington or DPMS. Cabelas and another local store has all those.
I LOVED the DPMS Prairie Panther!! it felt PERFECT! The only problem is that it is a little more than I wanted to spend (and it was some kind of white camo- but they could order me the right one)

What are the pros and cons of these? The 24" seemed a little long and unwieldy. I'd like to be able to shoulder fire these and the 24" was just too much. I liked the 18" and 20".
And I kind of like Remington's camo, and one version of DPMS's camo (the King's Desert Shadow).

What do you all think of these?
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:07:32 PM EDT
Bby the way, I might be buying on FRIDAY!
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:10:57 PM EDT
18" is a great do it all barrel length. Lot of 3gun guys run 18" barrels.

Dont rule out 16" barrels either. They will do more than enough for 99% of people
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:15:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2011 6:20:16 PM EDT by Sobreviviente08]
Add: I'm shooting groundhogs typically 0-200 yards, up to 400 at the most.

So the longer barrel, 1x8 twist should be able to throw larger ammo too, right? 72gr for the long long distances?
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:22:27 PM EDT
24" .223 Rem:



24" .204 Ruger:



Both are great long range guns.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:30:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sobreviviente08:
Add: I'm shooting groundhogs typically 0-200 yards, up to 400 at the most.

So the longer barrel, 1x8 twist should be able to throw larger ammo too, right? 72gr for the long long distances?


Yes you can shoot 75 and 77 grain bullets with a 8 or 7 twist but If you are shooting varmints a 50-60 grain varmint bullet will work just fine. A 16" will shoot to 400 all day
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 8:11:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
18" is a great do it all barrel length. Lot of 3gun guys run 18" barrels.

Dont rule out 16" barrels either. They will do more than enough for 99% of people


16 will do in Chuck's a good way's out, better than 400 If you do your end. Someone has to dance with the short fat girls



Link Posted: 4/30/2011 8:55:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sobreviviente08:
Sorry for another post begging for info! (This is my third recent post)-

I have moved from wanting the 16" carbine style to wanting a tube shrouded "Varminter"- Bushmaster, Remington or DPMS. Cabelas and another local store has all those.
I LOVED the DPMS Prairie Panther!! it felt PERFECT! The only problem is that it is a little more than I wanted to spend (and it was some kind of white camo- but they could order me the right one)

What are the pros and cons of these? The 24" seemed a little long and unwieldy. I'd like to be able to shoulder fire these and the 24" was just too much. I liked the 18" and 20".
And I kind of like Remington's camo, and one version of DPMS's camo (the King's Desert Shadow).

What do you all think of these?


FPS is the difference! Nothing in accuracy is to be had in a long tube! 24 in. tubes are a pain, don't ballance the best but, ya get FPS!

I have a few 24 bulls, 20 bulls, 16,20 lightweight and HBAR, A2,M4 barrels also.

A BULL barrel won't always out shoot a light pencil barrel. Barrels are funny things and are the heart of most any rifle.

My coyote calling rifle wears a 16 in. pencil CL barrel, rifle length float tube,3-9 burris timberline, hogkiller light and is poisen with 55 VMax farther than I can hold! You could wack Chuck's at 300 with it the 9x being the limiting factor!

Link Posted: 4/30/2011 9:10:50 PM EDT
the Prairie panthers are a nice wieght. the lite contour bull keeps the weight down compared to a full .936 bull . and being a 1/8 twist is a plus for heavier bullets further out.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 9:51:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2011 9:52:36 PM EDT by PAPPYO]
ya can go with a 20 HBAR also

top rifle is a cheapo build one of Holligers WOA 1-7 service rifle barrels, Millet TRS. plants 52 gr. Sierras real nice.

Bottom is RRA match barrel cheapo build. 1-8 burris timberline and shoots very well.

both have Wylde chambers and are plenty good for 400 yds. if the shooter is!

I'll be getting a 16 WOA SS 223 middy barrel soon! Good stuff for a good price!
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 10:29:05 PM EDT
18" 1/8 twist because you can shoot the whole range of bullet weights the 5.56 caliber has to offer and it will handle them all very well. I must say I love my LaRue Stealth. That thing can shoot fleas, no not flies, fleas at any range (ok I'm exaggerating but only a little bit).
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 10:43:00 PM EDT
LOL. We have confused the OP in our posts.

the only thing diff. between 16,18,20 are 2-4 clicks elevation on a 1/4 MOA scope at 300 yards roughly.

poor fella is more confused now then when he got here.

just get a rifle set up that suits ya, depending on how far your gonna walk ect.

I have so many between my bolt guns and autoloaders I loose track sometimes
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:13:58 AM EDT
My 24" got damn heavy next to my 16" so I did a barrel swap. I picked up an 18" DPMS Mark 12 barrel and couldn't be happier. I lost about 50-80 yards of supersonic flight off the end of my shots, but it was well worth it. If you carry the rifle any distance, you might find this too. If I need to reach out farther than I can with an 18" then I really need a bigger caliber anyway.
Originally Posted By PAPPYO:
LOL. We have confused the OP in our posts.

the only thing diff. between 16,18,20 are 2-4 clicks elevation on a 1/4 MOA scope at 300 yards roughly.

poor fella is more confused now then when he got here.

just get a rifle set up that suits ya, depending on how far your gonna walk ect.

I have so many between my bolt guns and autoloaders I loose track sometimes

I hate you.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 7:05:27 AM EDT
lots of info at once, but I am soaking it up!
Thanks guys this is helping a TON!
I'm not really more confused, it's just all good info that I can put together for myself- mainly that the 24" is for the sandbag shooter only and that I indeed do NOT want to carry that around, that seems to be the consensus. And I will be carrying in the field so I take weight to be a factor.

Alright, assuming I can get a 18" or 20" fluted blackened SS 1x8 twist (yes?) chambered in 5.56, free floated with a tube shroud, dust cover, forward assist and picatinny on top for optics LETS TALK LOWERS!

Can I really save money by matching a top like that to a locally bought lower multiple posts have told me that. Alright- what do I look for in a lower? (the DPMS trigger was GLORIOUS!!)
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 7:06:07 AM EDT
I'd dance with any of those lovely ladies
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 7:37:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sobreviviente08:
lots of info at once, but I am soaking it up!
Thanks guys this is helping a TON!
I'm not really more confused, it's just all good info that I can put together for myself- mainly that the 24" is for the sandbag shooter only and that I indeed do NOT want to carry that around, that seems to be the consensus. And I will be carrying in the field so I take weight to be a factor.

Alright, assuming I can get a 18" or 20" fluted blackened SS 1x8 twist (yes?) chambered in 5.56, free floated with a tube shroud, dust cover, forward assist and picatinny on top for optics LETS TALK LOWERS!

Can I really save money by matching a top like that to a locally bought lower multiple posts have told me that. Alright- what do I look for in a lower? (the DPMS trigger was GLORIOUS!!)


Geissele is coming out with their "Super 2 Stage" sometime in the near future that is supposedly in the $120-135 range. It was suppose to be out by the end of this month but I havent been able to find any. I am waiting on that a PRS and some glass to finish out my 20" build. Its gonna sport a 20" Noveske medium contour barrel. I debated the 18" question for a while then spotted the 20" barrel on the EBB and decided to get it. Now I can just build another rifle in 18" LOL!

Link Posted: 5/1/2011 7:41:26 AM EDT
I have'nt bought a lower in 3-4 years. You'll have to snoop around and see whats up and where the deals are. I have a few Bushmaster lowers all over 15-20 years old, PWA, DPMS. Olympic also old. my newer lowers are Stag,Spikes RRA.

All serve there purpose.

I have quite a few older RRA two stage triggers and lower parts in my stuff also some of Springfields trigger work.

Lot's of good new drop in triggers out nowadays to choose from.

Link Posted: 5/1/2011 8:38:28 AM EDT
If you do some snooping in the threads here you'll find a list of companies that make lowers and where they are from. It will also give you a good idea about their quality. If it is a good lower and to spec you should be able to slap any upper on it and be GTG. Some might be a little tighter than others but should all fit well enough to function flawlessly.

Try and get your hands on various triggers. You may or may not like a 2 stage or a single stage. I prefer single, gun goes when I want it to and not have to take up any slack, just a crisp clean break.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 2:14:36 PM EDT
This might belong in the "Accurate Package Gun" post I started, but I'm now considering these. All 18"-22" barrels.
The brands I'm not sure about. I just wish they'd dip under a grand
In order that I'd buy: These are tenative, and camo vs black is not a deciding factor (Remington's camo is the only I really like- I'd probably buy black and then ghillie it)

DPMS Prairie Panther- black

Remington R-15 VTR Predator Carbine
(or maybe the 22" version?)

Bushmaster Predator

What do you all think? What are the PROS and the CONS of these? (I haven't ruled out building my own, I just haven't been able to find a way to do it for less than a package)
I have handled and dry fired all of these, and the DPMS seemed the most comfortable and had the best trigger. Not a fan of shiny black though...
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 2:18:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 007Kevin:

Try and get your hands on various triggers. You may or may not like a 2 stage or a single stage. I prefer single, gun goes when I want it to and not have to take up any slack, just a crisp clean break.


I tried to do that the other day. I snapped some Bushmasters, Remingtons, Smith and Wessons, DPMS, and the DPMS two stage seemed the best- smooth then crisp. I like the two stage deal, its like a "is this your final answer?" "yes- groundhog death is my final answer-" snap-boom-thwack

I was actually a little under impressed with the Bushmaster's trigger. It took third for me, with the Remington taking second. Do they wear in after a while, or would I just want to assume another 100+ for upgrade?
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 2:22:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sobreviviente08:
Originally Posted By 007Kevin:

Try and get your hands on various triggers. You may or may not like a 2 stage or a single stage. I prefer single, gun goes when I want it to and not have to take up any slack, just a crisp clean break.


I tried to do that the other day. I snapped some Bushmasters, Remingtons, Smith and Wessons, DPMS, and the DPMS two stage seemed the best- smooth then crisp. I like the two stage deal, its like a "is this your final answer?" "yes- groundhog death is my final answer-" snap-boom-thwack

I was actually a little under impressed with the Bushmaster's trigger. It took third for me, with the Remington taking second. Do they wear in after a while, or would I just want to assume another 100+ for upgrade?


Unless there's something I don't know, those probably (besides the DPMS 2 stage) had standard triggers. Try something with a timney, wilson, JP, or Geissel trigger and then see what you think.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 3:37:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2011 6:24:44 PM EDT by aceduece]
My free 2cents/opinions!

I have an 20" Rock River Varmint gun(linky), it is very accurate and fun to shoot. That said, this gun is heavy for walking and hunting. Most of the various varmint guns with bull barrels are going to be heavy. The Remington R15 is much lighter and I like shouldering it. Length of barrel does not equate to more accuracy. The longer barrels give more velocity. I have gone to a 18" gun,( pictured below ), similar to what the 3 guns guys use. I can easy carry and shoulder this gun as it is not much heavier than my carbine length gun. It is handy for hunting and gaming. Even my .22 conversion kit works 100 percent. The bonus, one can get a 6x45 or 7.62x40 barrel, "only" do a barrel swap, and now have better hunting caliber. Note:( from .50cents trigger jobs to a few hundred dollars aftermarket triggers,... improving the trigger on an AR rifle is a separate topic!...do a search and you will get up to speed on this)
















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