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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/8/2005 5:25:55 AM EDT
Try to decide if I want a Stag 16" M4 carbine or a RRA 16" mid-length. I think there is some reliability issue assocoated with M4 carbine size, I wonder if mid-length is a better option? If I wish to change hand gard or free float tube, is the mid-length as easy to find? Do I really need to concern about the carbine reliability (short troking, hard extraction) or the smaller port size take care of it and I just worry too much.
Also, is carbine collasible stock (instead of 6 position M4 stock) a reasonable choice? I think I propably only either use fully extended or store fully collapsed. Thanks.

Hank
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:31:07 AM EDT
Mid lengths tend to be more reliable and easier on parts. Get the collapsible stock, I guarantee you'll prefer it to the A2.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:33:23 AM EDT
Havn't had a single problem with the 16" Stag.. Just get what ya want and have fun!
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:36:31 AM EDT
I've heard of issues with the carbine length gas system but never had any issues myself. If you're going with a 16" length there's no reason not to go midlength. You get a slightly longer sight radius out of it and less violent extraction. A M4 type telestock is cheap and relatively comfortable.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:43:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 5:44:33 AM EDT by Hokie]
There's this "parkerized booger" that hangs below the front sight base that reportedly supports the mounting of a sharp knife-like object used for impaling things.

On 16" carbines, this feature is 150% useless, which makes me chuckle, as the AR enthusiast will spend thousands of dollars to turn his/her gun into a centerpiece for tactical and practical set ups....yet have that useless POS hanging off the barrel, looking incredibly stupid.

The midlength allows you to actually USE te bayonet, should you want to. Add a longer sight radius and a better gas system, and you have a winner in the 16" AR catagory.

But....give me a 14.5" M4gery anyday!
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:55:16 AM EDT
+1 on that useless booger! The Middy is the only way to go as far as a 16" barrel goes. The cycling is so much smoother and the sight radius is a big plus. I couldnt believe how easy a midlength was to control in full auto. Stag makes excellent product but they dont make a middy yet... The RRA rifles are top notch and dammed reliable!
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:26:18 AM EDT
Midlength all the way.


Since the midlength came out - I honestly have no idea why anyone still manufactures (or more importantly, BUYS) regular 16" carbines.

There is no real benefit of a regular 16" carbine over a midlength that I can think of
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:52:28 AM EDT
If you're just getting one first, get the mid-length first. I'm getting both. I have owned carbines for more than twelve years and have no problems with that system.

But now I'm building a mid-length to have something better than my carbine.

When my cousin bought a mid-length carbine ten years ago before the AWB, I was thinking that it's a strange design and I resisted the change.

I should have changed my mind sooner.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:53:36 AM EDT
If you want to build one yourself DSG arms has the Cavalry arms uppers( which I've heard have sabre defense barrels) I have one of the midlengths myself and it's my favorite rifle. I'd trade my 14.5 in on another one in a heartbeat.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 8:39:22 AM EDT
Does midlength has carbine gas port size or 20" port size or somewhere in between? Easy to find hand guard or float tube? Do I really need 6 position stock or cheaper 4 position will do just fine. I actually think 4 position stock looks better to my eyes. Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 8:52:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HankC:
Does midlength has carbine gas port size or 20" port size or somewhere in between? Easy to find hand guard or float tube? Do I really need 6 position stock or cheaper 4 position will do just fine. I actually think 4 position stock looks better to my eyes. Thanks.



Gas port size, dunno... ? Obviously the tube length is different but I've never heard anything on sizes.

FF tubes, no problem.

Nothing wrong with a 4 pos if that's what you like.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 11:09:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HankC:
Does midlength has carbine gas port size or 20" port size or somewhere in between? Easy to find hand guard or float tube? Do I really need 6 position stock or cheaper 4 position will do just fine. I actually think 4 position stock looks better to my eyes. Thanks.


The gas port size should be standard on all mid-length, but the actual size either a barrel maker or a builder would chime in with the actual diameter size. When I get my barrel I'll post the port size for comparison.

There are several manufacturers that makes standard handguards and FF rails, they're usually about 9 inches long while the carbine is about 7 inches. There are plenty of mid handguards available.

Stag Arms makes a stock that looks like the 4 position but it is actually a 6 position. Click on their link on top of the webpage and take a look at it. Their carbine stock kit cost about $65 which includes everything like receiver extension (buffer tube), receiver lock-plate, lock-nut, CAR buffer assy and buffer spring. They are also available in fixed position for states with AWB. Stag Arms stocks are Mil-Spec compatible.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 11:23:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 11:41:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:


But....give me a 14.5" M4gery anyday!



What Hokie said.
But if you want a 16" barrel, I personally prefer the carbine look.
It all comes down to personal preference.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 11:43:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2005 8:07:54 PM EDT by wes15a2]
.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 11:45:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2005 8:09:08 PM EDT by wes15a2]
tri-burst,
I am slowly turning into a r-tard
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 11:56:08 AM EDT
wes15a2,

It seems that your mouse is dying (triple post).

Maybe it's about time to retire it and get a new one.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 12:54:43 PM EDT
I have 2 BM carbines and have had zero problems out of them. However, I really like the look of the mid lengths and will be adding one to my safe soon.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 1:13:38 PM EDT
If you are going to run a 16" barrel and you're starting from scratch, there is no reason to go with a carbine over a mid-length gas system. The Middy is equal to or better than the carbine in every way while giving up absolutely nothing.

It really is a no-brainier in my book for a working gun.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 5:55:52 PM EDT
Is midlength pretty much standardrized? Just wonder if I would get in a delima that I may not find correct lenth handguards, float tube or gas tube later. Don't see many vendors carry mid-length?
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 6:05:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HankC:
Is midlength pretty much standardrized? Just wonder if I would get in a delima that I may not find correct lenth handguards, float tube or gas tube later. Don't see many vendors carry mid-length?



You can use rifle length free float tubes if you change out the front sight base with a gas block. There are a few middy's on the market, but not as many as the rifle length or carbine length. standard handguards can be found all day long at RRA or CavArms. Give it some time, and there will be more options.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 6:19:07 PM EDT
LaRue and Daniel Defense offer rails, Cav Arms and RRA have handguards, and Carbon fiber and aluminum float tubes are available. Mid lengths are good to go.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 6:53:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HankC:
Is midlength pretty much standardrized? Just wonder if I would get in a delima that I may not find correct lenth handguards, float tube or gas tube later. Don't see many vendors carry mid-length?


Midlength is already standardized and was started by Armalite maybe about over ten years ago.

Barrel makers are making standard midlength like ABS Carbon Fiber, Pac Nor, Noveske, ER Shaw, Wilson, Sabre Defence, White Oak Armament and other custom barrel makers.

Handguards are available from Armalite, Cav Arms and RRA.

FF handguards are available from most of the makers like ARMS, Daniel Defense, Knight's Armament, LaRue, Olympic, PRI, Troy, Samson & YHM and maybe some more brands that I didn't mention.

Vendors at the Equipment Exchange that carry midlength are ADCO, Denny's GTS, G&R Tactical, Legal-Transfers, DSG Arms, Talon Arms and more.

Denny of Global Tactical will have a limited run Operator 16" midlength barrels with midweight profile, chrome moly, chrome lined, F FSB, M4 ramps and it's already posted in his website and the EE.

Bravo Company USA will have a 16" middy M4 government profile, ER Shaw 4150 Chrome Moly, chromed lined, M4 feed ramps, F FSB, CMT M4 RAS upper, HPT and MPI proof tested upper (without stock, BCG & CH) due out sometimes this month, check out their Industry forum.

Maybe you're not looking good enough.
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