Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 10/18/2004 4:03:49 PM EST
I'm about ready to order my first AR, can't wait. Still can't decide between the 14.5 + FS or the 16" barrel Bushmaster for both. I know extra length is always better for distance, but I'll only be shooting 200 and closer. Are there going to be any noticable differences between the lengths at 200 and under, or is it going to be ME that's the lowest common denominator? I'm leaning toward the M4 setup with the 14.5 right now, but I'm still not sold either way. My FFL didn't help either way. He said he can get them both in about the same time, so there goes that deciding factor. Let me have it with your experiences, I know many of you have both out there so I'll mooch off your knowledge. Thanks
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:12:14 PM EST
there may be other considerations that affect your choice..if you swap out the FSB with a folding front sight and have problems with it, you could have a major headache removing the welded flash suppressor from your 14.5" barrel and then replacing it..that's why i stayed with the 16" barrel..YMMV
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:36:05 PM EST
It's not anything to really loose sleep over. If you were say in the business of clearing rooms, etc, sure it MIGHT make a difference. But for your average shooting session or whatever, I don't think it is a big deal. My reason that I want a 14.5 inch barrel is because I have a 16 inch barrel.
Furthermore, if you get 16 inch, get one with the step down profile like the m4 (for the mounting of a 203), it just looks way cooler than a standard pencil barrel with a fs hanging on the end of it.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:43:07 PM EST
I have to disagree with the previous poster. I think the M4 profile only belongs on a 14.5". I think the 16" M4 profile just doesn't look right. If I was going to get a 16", it would probably be a pencil/lightweight with an A2 FH. If I was going to get a 20", it would be the A2 contour with an A2 FH. In 14.5", I like the M4 contour witha Phantom or a KKF A3FSMS.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:54:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 4:56:48 PM EST by Tex78]
Its an inch and a half difference between you being able to:

- Change over to that new and up coming flash supressor on somebody's drawing board,

- Install that new handguard you might want one day, BY YOURSELF without having to pay a smith more $$$

- Put that new fangled sight tower you now cannot live without on that badboy (without a smith)

- Buy and install that new kickbutt sound supressor (cause ya got a real good Christmas BoNu$ that yearwith the new job)

OR NOT.

Just my $0.02

Tex78
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:00:31 PM EST
personal preference really... 14.5 M4 looks cool (just like those guys on TV!!)

16" gives you about 200+ ft/sec velocity. Punching paper to 200 yd, does not make any difference.

There are also different weight on the barrel... M4 gov style is not heavy underneath the handguard but some 16" are... Go to Bush web site and check them out.

You should really make sure it is chrome chambered.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:07:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By Walmart_Special:
personal preference really... 14.5 M4 looks cool (just like those guys on TV!!)

16" gives you about 200+ ft/sec velocity. Punching paper to 200 yd, does not make any difference.

There are also different weight on the barrel... M4 gov style is not heavy underneath the handguard but some 16" are... Go to Bush web site and check them out.

You should really make sure it is chrome chambered.



There are many "mock" M4 barrels on the market that are heavy under the handguards. If you go with the M4 profile, make sure you are getting a true M4 profile barrel. (unless you like extra weight)
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:13:45 PM EST
Go with the 16". Extra range and it gives you more options for the future. For the first time buyer my biggest suggestion for you is to stay VERSITILE! You WILL change your mind about some things. Make sure your rifle can change too.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:14:43 PM EST
16in bbl

you get more velocity; BIG+++++s when it comes to self[-defence/hunting

and w/ a threaded bbl, you can switch out muzzle devices

the bayo wont fit right, but are you going to stab something or shoot it?
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:20:09 PM EST
Buy both!

I can't believe someone hadn't mentioned that already!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:21:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By ALPHA9000:
Go with the 16". Extra range and it gives you more options for the future. For the first time buyer my biggest suggestion for you is to stay VERSITILE! You WILL change your mind about some things. Make sure your rifle can change too.



I prefer the 14.5" but then again I have a 16" as well. For a first purchase, the 16" for sure. Alpha is right, you'll change your mind about configs quite a bit and with a perm FH that makes for a real pain in the ass. A 16 would serve you better. Just my .02
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:24:32 PM EST
16"
More velocity, changeable muzzle devices and not much longer than a 14.5"
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:48:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 6:48:53 PM EST by PalmTree]
I'm going to get both (one for practical use and one for looks).. I've already got my 16" LMT upper. The 16" is the practical choice. It's a must have due to the easily removable flash hider. I for one want to get a silencer for mine. So the 16" inch is the way to go.

I'm still getting a 14.5" for kicks and grins though.

Down the road I'd like to get one or two SBR's, but I plan to get 11.5" barrels for those. There isn't much point in getting a 14.5" SBR IMHO.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 4:32:50 AM EST
Thanks for all the replies - seems like people are pretty much divided down the middle here. I'll probably just end up going with which ever one I can get quicker. Rather have one than not right now. Don't want to wait until Nov 3rd to make a decision. One option i'm considering right now is to get the 14.5+FS and another 20" upper - best of both worlds. How many of you have trigger jobs? Seems like the RR 2 stage trigger is pretty well accepted here. THanks again
late
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 4:37:05 AM EST
Never go below 16". 20" is even better.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 4:41:20 AM EST
RRA is accpted around here because its cheap and only because its cheap. Many failures reported with that trigger as its not relible and can go single stage just by using it. Get a relible trigger with set screws like the KAC 2 stage and you have a superior feel and more reliability. Better yet save money and go single stage with an Accuracy Speaks and get an improved trigger pull and even more reliability than the KAC unit.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 5:03:03 AM EST
Register it as an SBR and have your 14.5" AND removable flash hider.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 5:12:48 AM EST
I went with a 14.5 inch on my first purchase and now I regret it. It is kind of annoying not being able to clean the muzzle if I so desire or swap different muzzle devices. Not to mention, it just makes no sense to me now to sacrifice the velocity for a inch and a half less on a barrel that will have to have an extra long flash hider attached to it anyway. In addition, if this rifle will serve an "all around" purpose and be the one that you would grab if anything ever actually went down, the 16 inch would better serve this purpose. Without fragmentation the 5.56 round sucks and a 14.5 inch barrel will probably only give you fragmentation out to around 90 to 100 yards.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:36:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2004 6:37:31 AM EST by Onslaught]

Without fragmentation the 5.56 round sucks and a 14.5 inch barrel will probably only give you fragmentation out to around 90 to 100 yards.

Yeah, and the 16" is good for another 40 yards...

This always cracks me up anyways. In what reality would a regular old civilian need to defend himself beyond 100 yards???

Also, there's this magic 2699fps= NO FRAGMENTATION balogna. If you look at the "Fackler" pics of fragmentation at different velocities on ammo-oracle (where everyone gets this info) you'll see that even down to 2500fps, there is bullet deformation and SOME fragmentation, which means the bullet still tumbles and yaws. It does NOT, contrary to popular belief, poke a pin-sized hole, cauterize the wound going through, inject pain killer and adrenaline into the victim, and then place a band-aid on the exit wound before falling harmlessly to the ground 6 inches after exiting.

The only valid points about 14.5" vs. 16" are the ones about changing muzzle devices, swapping FSB's, and adding FFT's. Any big stories about accuracy or velocity is just SILLY.

Get the one you want. I have had both, I still have the 16", and I want another 14.5" just for the heck of it. But I want a 14.5" mid-length this time. Sort of a mini-dissy.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:45:46 AM EST
if you've got only one, make it a 16"
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:47:57 AM EST
I want the option of performing drive by bayonettings....

I need a 14.5" barrel for that.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:14:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hokie:
I want the option of performing drive by bayonettings....

I need a 14.5" barrel for that.



There are bayonets for the 16" + F/S barrel. I just purchased one from prebanarms.com
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:59:36 PM EST
16" barrels look strange on anything other than a dissipator. For the average paper puncher there isnt much difference between the 14" 16" or 20".

I personally like a 20", but if I was going for the M4 look, it's be a 14" with phantom FH, though I tend to view caribines as mission specific tools and not combat, or SHTF guns...
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 7:39:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2004 7:43:16 PM EST by model927]
Enough with fragmentation and what have you.People come in all shapes and sizes wich can be a factor on fragmentation even when velocity is at 2700.As far as barrel legnth the extra range a 16" gives is negligible.If you own a carbine expect it to behave as such.A 14.5 gives the same accuracy as a 20" out to 350 yds.Fragmentation is cut to 100 yds yes but lets look at facts true for the last 60 years.When the study began on ranges infantry men actually use their rifles.First unless in the desert or open terrain the distance wich you can see something you want to shoot is drastically decreased as soldiers will engage what they can see and that means that 95% of engagements take place under 100 yds and 75 to 80% of those well under 50.So a 14.5 is plenty even an 11.5 will do the job out to 50 yds.There are alot of factors that contribute to the bullet fragmenting not just range and velocity but penetration through clothing and tissue as everyones body mass and bone density is different.As a civilian the 11.5 is irelevant as we need to have a barrel 16" making the full advantage of an 11.5 wich is compactness and size a dead issue on an 11.5 civie rifle so I went 14.5 because its the shortest legally but with plenty of barrel to do the job and plenty compact.I dont change flash hiders or piece meal barrels so permanently attached hiders are not an issue in a rifle meant for personnel defense.If you have to take shots longer than 100 yds do what I did get a .308 with optics for that job.In a life or death encounter your threat will not be thinking"hey his 14.5 is only good out to 100 yds for maximum killing effect,Ill stay out of his range"Thats Bull shit,an encounter will most likely be close up well under 100 yds.If 16" barrels had any tactical relevance the military would use them but they dont.Its either 14.5 or 20" and for longer shots you have M14s,SR25s,barret 50s and others.So if you opt for a carbine 14.5 or 16" really does not matter it only matters if you want the smallest legaly possible with good range and hell I dont rely on fragmentation I use 55 gr and 62 gr hollowpoints, if fragmentation dont get you with good shot placement....I repeat good shot placement then the mushrooming round will,still dependent of course on good shot placement.The problem I see here always is every ones looking for one rifle to do it all and even though an AR almost does that it dosent do it completely because if it did it would make the need for special forces to have a variety of weapons to choose from not vital and we all know that it is.Just my .02
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 8:29:40 PM EST

Originally posted by Hokie:

I want the option of performing drive by bayonettings....

I need a 14.5" barrel for that.




Originally posted by Variablebinary:

16" barrels look strange on anything other than a dissipator



On both counts, I STILL vote Mid-length!!! Standard bayonet fits 16" barrel, and the "naked barrel" ratio is nearly the same as the 20"!

I LOVE my Middie...
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 9:01:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By Onslaught:

Originally posted by Hokie:

I want the option of performing drive by bayonettings....

I need a 14.5" barrel for that.




Originally posted by Variablebinary:

16" barrels look strange on anything other than a dissipator



On both counts, I STILL vote Mid-length!!! Standard bayonet fits 16" barrel, and the "naked barrel" ratio is nearly the same as the 20"!

I LOVE my Middie...



Kinda like this


You're right, they are very cool
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:24:12 AM EST
16" for a multipurpose gun...

14.5" very light weight... close range specific...

you may want to consider twist rates... a 1x7 twist shooting 77gr's is going to frag. further than a 20" shooting m193 or ss109...
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:25:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:

Originally Posted By Onslaught:

Originally posted by Hokie:

I want the option of performing drive by bayonettings....

I need a 14.5" barrel for that.




Originally posted by Variablebinary:

16" barrels look strange on anything other than a dissipator



On both counts, I STILL vote Mid-length!!! Standard bayonet fits 16" barrel, and the "naked barrel" ratio is nearly the same as the 20"!

I LOVE my Middie...



Kinda like this
acstest2.com/RRAmid.jpg

You're right, they are very cool



nice middy
Top Top