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Posted: 7/30/2009 7:16:53 AM EST
I have 2 SPR 18.5 and a SBR 10.5, should I get a 12.5?

What are the pros and cons of getting a 12.5? This will also be suppressed too if that makes a difference.
I really like the way they look and thought about getting a larue stealth 12.5.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 9:13:12 AM EST
12.5 runs better with a suppressor than shorter barrels. It's give enough velocity to a 55gr M193 round to fragment at around 80m(pretty much max self defense range), and they can use reflex suppressors such as the SPR/M4. All that and they are short and light; just what you'd expect out of an SBR.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 10:31:28 AM EST
If/when I get an SBR, it will be a 12.5 for all the reasons stated above.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 10:42:38 AM EST
My main rifle. Its the perfect length IMO. Even with a can its very light and easy to swing. My GTS Operator 12.5"/Larue Stealth/Noveske
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 10:53:37 AM EST
I have a 12.5" Noveske and it is a wickedly accurate (as you'd expect from a stainless match barrel) and smooth-recoiling barrel. With ammo prices being so high, I haven't shot it heavily, but when (not if) ammo prices come down you can bet that I'd want to get a double-chrome 12.5" barrel.
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 10:33:33 AM EST
where did you get your 12.5 barrels from?
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 2:16:42 PM EST
My 12.5 N4 is a dream to shoot, particularly suppressed. I like it so much so that I bought another one in 6.8, although with an SS Noveske barrel.
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 5:35:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 6:00:18 PM EST
my 12.5" is my favorite AR all-around, but i think you're wasting its potential if you don't have a reflex suppressor. i use a full-size Surefire can and the overall length is the same as a 16" AR (and an inch shorter than my 10.5" + standard suppressor).
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 6:55:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By 62nd_Assassin:
my 12.5" is my favorite AR all-around, but i think you're wasting its potential if you don't have a reflex suppressor. i use a full-size Surefire can and the overall length is the same as a 16" AR (and an inch shorter than my 10.5" + standard suppressor).


+1 for reflex-type cans and 12.5's.

Link Posted: 8/1/2009 9:32:00 AM EST
Someone please educate me on what exactly a "reflex" style suppressor is, and what are some of the Tier 1 examples of this style suppressor?
Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 10:13:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 10:21:50 AM EST by DevL]
A can that extends back over the barel to increase the volume of exansion in order to decrease back pressure. Examples are the Ops Inc cans, Surefire FA556AR, AAC SPR/M4, etc.

The two quietest are the Ops 12th and AAC SPR/M4. They are also the two quietest mass produced cans made for 5.56 period.

Murderman and I both have SPR/M4 cans.

Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:32:35 PM EST
I run an Ops 15th on a 12.5". Last week, I ran a course of fire first with my 10.5, then with my 12.5. The long shots made me appreciate the little extra bit of barrel.

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 7:13:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Razorhunter:
Someone please educate me on what exactly a "reflex" style suppressor is, and what are some of the Tier 1 examples of this style suppressor?
Thanks guys.



To add to DevL's excellent explanation, here are some pics of a 12.5 with and without the SPR/M4 "reflex-type" suppressor. This should give you a pretty good idea of what we are talking about.





As 62nd mentioned, the OAL with the can is almost exactly the same as a 16" with a FH.

For the OP, as you can tell from the logo on the receiver, this most wonderful upper came from Wes at MSTN. I challenge you to find ANYONE who would not agree that the stuff which comes out of his shop is absoluetly top shelf.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 12:44:39 PM EST
my Denny's 12.5 Operator w/ DD 9.5FSP and SF FA556AR

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 1:54:46 PM EST
Where can I get a 12.5 barrel? I have looked at Denny's guns with no luck. Noveske crusaders are hard to find. Wes do you have any 12.5 barrelsbin stock?
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 5:28:00 PM EST
how do you guys like the acog on the 12.5? how far out are can you hit accurately with that barrel length?
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 6:37:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By RichDC2:
how do you guys like the acog on the 12.5? how far out are can you hit accurately with that barrel length?


Barrel length has little to do with accuracy. Short barrels are more accurate than long barrels, all else being equal, because they are more stiff. A Noveske 12.5 get about the same muzzle velocity of a regular 14.5. You could probably shoot paper at 600 meters with one.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 8:06:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 8:56:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 8:57:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 8:59:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 2:27:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By RichDC2:
how do you guys like the acog on the 12.5? how far out are can you hit accurately with that barrel length?


I like the 11 series ACOG so much that I ordered another one for the 12.5" 6.8. It gives up a little speed versus a red dot at <50y, but is much better at ranges beyond that. As mine is not a social platform, I am willing to accept that trade off for my typical applications; besides, I also have a T-1 for the weapon should I choose to use it for CQB-type stuff. The 11's are amazingly bright and "forgiving" with the large EP, and the longer ER also makes BAC easier to implement for me versus a 31.

As MagazineFed alluded to, barrel quality has more to do with precision shooting than barrel length, and ammo quality trumps both of them IMHO. There is a caveat though; reduced barrel length means reduced MV, all else being equal. While this is essentially inconsequential from an elevation perspective, since the operator is DOPE'ing at longer distances anyway, there is more windage influence at lower velocity for a given BC. I am starting to digress into off topic external ballistics discussion, and will stop here.

Regarding your specific inquiry, hitting 8" steels at 300y prone with my setup is pretty easy, even using XM193. I have also shot 18"x30" steel silhouettes out to just under 500y, and it is even easier.... do the math. I haven't tried shooting for groups with better ammo yet, but it is on the agenda, along with several other test programs. This damn thing called gainful employment just seems to keep getting in the way. The N4 seems to be a pretty good barrel, and hopefully I can also run my wife's 16" version some more in the near term as well.

The gist of it is:

1) Start with quality ammo
2) Add a quality barrel
3) Quality optics sure don't hurt
4) 1-3 will probably be capable of better precision than most shooters.

Hope this helps.
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