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Posted: 8/1/2005 4:58:44 AM EDT
I was thinking seriously about going the SBR route on a lower I have and it will be with one of the two above mentioned lengths. Besides the obvious 1", is there any real difference between the two lengths? And you guys with SBRs in these barrel lengths, what is the total length, with A2 flashhider? Will be using Vltor buffer tube. Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 6:50:49 AM EDT
From what I have heard not much of a difference.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 6:52:51 AM EDT
from my undstanding the 11.5 works great but the 10.5 has problems.

i have a 11.5 and i can say that yes it does work all the time.
can't report on the 10.5.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:01:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:
from my undstanding the 11.5 works great but the 10.5 has problems.

i have a 11.5 and i can say that yes it does work all the time.
can't report on the 10.5.



Never heard of problems with the LMT 10.5 nor the LW 10.5
Bushy and Colt do 11.5 and I have heard of more problems with those.
I guess the opposite could easily be true... it all depends on the manufacturer.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:06:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:09:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:10:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 9:11:55 AM EDT by TexasSIG]
I didn't go with the 10.5" because I didn't want the muzzle that close to my light, that's
the honest reason. Also even that one inch costs you more in precious distance
to get the velocity up over 2700. With the A2 FH the light got covered in residue
and it took forever to clean it.

I just added the Noveske Krink FH and I'm telling anyone that will listen that it is a MUST HAVE
on a shorty. It's amazing....

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:14:32 AM EDT
It appears that some people have had problems with a 10.5" barrel with a full-auto.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=14&t=153425

Not sure if you would have the same problem on semi, but it would appear that you might have some gas issues based on the comments in the above-thread if the upper was not properly set up.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:15:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:16:24 AM EDT
BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED!
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:17:03 AM EDT
yep, reliability.

An inch can make a big difference (What she said)


If you have a 10.5" barrel, that gas port better be just right. They can be reliable, but need to be set up just right.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:17:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:20:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LeitnerWise:
TexasSIG, the flash hider looks like it adds substantial weight to the muzzle. Having not handled one, wghat's it like in use?



It weighs 9 ounces. I don't notice it. Mostly it's an empty cannister with an expansion
area for the muzzle blast gasses.

It is supposed to help shorter barrel reliability by adding some back pressure. I didn't need
that, my 11.5 was already 100% reliable, but I wanted an effective flash hider.



Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:25:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:34:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LeitnerWise:
Thx for the info.



Long drawn out discussion here

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:42:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED!


Nice reply markm...., in the mean time 11.5 rules!!!


-------------
G18 - the best in full-auto...
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:45:09 AM EDT
I have 2 10.5, an LMT with no problems and an LW, but the LW is a different gas system so it really doesn't apply. I also have an 11.5. All run FA. I have had no problems with any of them. Keep in mind to the best of my knowledge you loose 50 FPS per inch with 55gr ammo.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:49:15 AM EDT
Get the extra inch in case you feel like lauching rifle grenades some day.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:05:16 AM EDT
Thanks for the info and thanks Kasab for starting this thread...I plan on getting an 11.5" SBR soon so I'm glad to hear it's pretty reliable.

Question: Would it be as reliable or close to as reliable as my 20" AR?
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:18:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Blanco_Diablo:
Thanks for the info and thanks Kasab for starting this thread...I plan on getting an 11.5" SBR soon so I'm glad to hear it's pretty reliable.

Question: Would it be as reliable or close to as reliable as my 20" AR?



11.5" will be 100% reliable.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:25:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 10:25:37 AM EDT by Tuukka]

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
Another advantage of the 11.5 is you can run a can.



You can run a can on a 10.5 also, although some companies do have issues with barrels under 11"

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:32:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 11:33:10 AM EDT by BravoCompanyUSA]
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:37:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 11:38:01 AM EDT by Blanco_Diablo]
Wait a second...don't 11.5" uppers have a front sling swivel???
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:38:59 AM EDT
All the 10.5-inch uppers I have been around (Colt and LMT) work just fine.



My Bushmaster SBR has a 11.5-inch barrel as Bushmaster was only selling that length at the time and not the shorter one. They told me they had too many issues with reliability with the shorter barrel.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:45:01 AM EDT
My 10.5" has made me proud everytime sofar.
No issues with relaiabilty or accuracy to date.
And you don´t bump into doorframes during housecleaning.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:53:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 11:54:04 AM EDT by TexasSIG]

Originally Posted By Blanco_Diablo:
Wait a second...don't 11.5" uppers have a front sling swivel???



They do unless you drill the pin out to get rid of the useless things........
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:58:05 AM EDT
Thanks again TexasSIG.

I planned on putting a sling on it so, I'll need it.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 12:01:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Blanco_Diablo:
Thanks again TexasSIG.

I planned on putting a sling on it so, I'll need it.



Yeah, I use a single point with an HK style clip on the side of the Magpul, but
the come with the swivel usually. I just drilled it out to eliminate the noise.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 12:23:55 PM EDT
I have a factory Colt Commando 11.5 " upper. It always works.

Colt_SBR

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 12:33:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 12:38:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 12:39:13 PM EDT by ch139]
I’ve got a suppressed 10.5-inch SBR too (works fine on full-auto), but comparing a suppressed short barrel to an unsuppressed gun is not really fair, the suppressor adds a lot of back pressure that will make a short barreled weapon just fine.

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 3:54:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 3:56:44 PM EDT by DevL]

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
Another advantage of the 11.5 is you can run a can.



You can run one on a 10.5" too. I have seen Phil Dater say he would warranty a 10.5" LMT on this board before.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 4:35:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
Another advantage of the 11.5 is you can run a can.



You can run one on a 10.5" too. I have seen Phil Dater say he would warranty a 10.5" LMT on this board before.



That's still an iffy statement and certainly not the norm. Most suppressor manufacturers won't honor warranties for their products run on barrels shorter than 11.5. You have mentioned the exception rather than the rule.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 5:07:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 5:12:28 PM EDT by BlowStuffUp]

9 inches = never reliably effective fragmentation.
10.5 inches = effective fragmentation only at muzzle contact range.
11.5 inches = effective to 40 yards
14.5 inches = effective to 90 yards
16 inches = effective to 120 yards.
18 inches = effective to 150 yards
20 inches = effective to 180 yards


taken from a post made by the great Rob Silvers on silencertests.com/www.silencertests.com/silencer-forum/viewtopic.php?t=388

considering the above i think i will take the 1" hit in length and opt for the 11.5". besides, most suppressor manufacturers wont warrantee using their suppessors on anything shorter than 11.5".
but that 10.5 incher sure does look cool. i think i will have to pick one up later on down the road as a cool range toy. 10.5 incher + krink brake = waaay cool!!



Link Posted: 8/1/2005 5:09:40 PM EDT
Does that chart mean that it will reliably fragment up to 40 yards but beyond that, it's random?
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 5:12:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Blanco_Diablo:
Does that chart mean that it will reliably fragment up to 40 yards but beyond that, it's random?



And that's using 55gr FMJ ammo only. If you are shooting a shorty, you need to be depending
on ammo design rather than fragmentation.

Take a 75gr TAP or 77gr Mk262. They don't depend on fragmentation for performance
so those distances are not as applicable.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 5:18:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Take a 75gr TAP or 77gr Mk262. They don't depend on fragmentation for performance
so those distances are not as applicable.

Actually, the big deal about the 75 and 77gr ammo is that it fragments at much lower velocities, and therefore longer ranges. They're also match bullets, so they tend to be capable of greater accuracy.
If it didn't depend on fragmentation for lethality, then it would be the same as using the 62 or 55 grain ammo beyond their effective fragmentation range, only with a barely heavier bullet.

In other words, the advantages of using those OTM bullets is that they are capable of greater accuracy and that they reliably fragment at greater ranges.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 5:19:52 PM EDT
My 10.5" runs like a Swiss watch. Absolutely zero problems.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 5:54:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:52:42 PM EDT
Why is it that some companies won't warranty their cans on <11.5" bbls? Too much blast that tears the insides apart?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 7:23:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BlowStuffUp:

9 inches = never reliably effective fragmentation.
10.5 inches = effective fragmentation only at muzzle contact range.
11.5 inches = effective to 40 yards
14.5 inches = effective to 90 yards
16 inches = effective to 120 yards.
18 inches = effective to 150 yards
20 inches = effective to 180 yards








Run any ammo other than military ball, then those number mean nothing.

If the weapon is to be used on people, why use ball ammo? I did not sign the Geneva accord...
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 8:03:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jjmcrowell:

Originally Posted By BlowStuffUp:

9 inches = never reliably effective fragmentation.
10.5 inches = effective fragmentation only at muzzle contact range.
11.5 inches = effective to 40 yards
14.5 inches = effective to 90 yards
16 inches = effective to 120 yards.
18 inches = effective to 150 yards
20 inches = effective to 180 yards








Run any ammo other than military ball, then those number mean nothing.

If the weapon is to be used on people, why use ball ammo? I did not sign the Geneva accord...



+1 I think there are many other options out their other than ball ammo. Heck, the other options are even better.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:45:30 PM EDT
What manefacturer makes the 10.5" barrel? I know the original XM177E1 had a 10.25" barrel on it, and so does the CMMG models produced today. Is Colt making a 10.5" barrel now?

As for the question at hand, I have a Bushmaster 11.5" barreled carbine and it has been a very reliable gun so far.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:47:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:39:54 AM EDT
Thanks Bravo.

I know that 9MM AR15 set-ups come with 10.5" barrels, and the new HK416 has a 10.5" barrel option, but unless the barrels are custom cut to 10.5" most of the barrels I have seen (at least for sale) have been 10.25" including CMMG (they advertise them as 10.3"). With some looking today I did find LMT defender barrels that were 10.5" though thanks to your help.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:00:17 AM EDT
Who makes the 10.5" 9mm barrels?
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:38:21 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:42:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
I didn't go with the 10.5" because I didn't want the muzzle that close to my light, that's
the honest reason. Also even that one inch costs you more in precious distance
to get the velocity up over 2700. With the A2 FH the light got covered in residue
and it took forever to clean it.

I just added the Noveske Krink FH and I'm telling anyone that will listen that it is a MUST HAVE
on a shorty. It's amazing....

homepage.mac.com/jayc67/sbr.jpg



awesome config!
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 7:28:54 AM EDT
Noboy's mentioned it yet, but with the 11.5" if you were to change your mind about the SBR or decided to give it to a family member or sell it you can just add an XM177 style FH and hit the magical 16".
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 7:32:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R0ME0:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
I didn't go with the 10.5" because I didn't want the muzzle that close to my light, that's
the honest reason. Also even that one inch costs you more in precious distance
to get the velocity up over 2700. With the A2 FH the light got covered in residue
and it took forever to clean it.

I just added the Noveske Krink FH and I'm telling anyone that will listen that it is a MUST HAVE
on a shorty. It's amazing....

homepage.mac.com/jayc67/sbr.jpg



awesome config!



Thanks... I got it just about where I want it finally....
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 8:20:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rcoers:
Who makes the 10.5" 9mm barrels?



Colt
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