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Posted: 12/6/2011 8:41:45 AM EST
i have a spikes tactical with 16" barrel.  i'd like for it to double as a SHTF gun and a hog hunting gun.

i have a cheap red dot on it along with MBUIS.  i cant hit crap with the red dot and intend to take it off permanently.  i'm considering going with a 1-4x adjustable scope for normal target shooting and hunting, and a green laser for short range quick target acquisition type situations.  this way the gun can perform both functions without having to take off and put on accessories.

does anyone have a better idea?  i'm getting mixed opinions on the 1-4x scopes.  some people love them and some people say they'd rather just have iron sights than a measly 4x scope.  

i'm pretty much a total noob, i just got my AR about a month ago and i have a lot to learn, so go easy please.
Link Posted: 12/6/2011 8:47:02 AM EST
[#1]
I honestly think a scope is a bit much for a SHTF gun.  I would look at a red dot.  If you're still wanting a 1-4x scope there are plenty of good choices out there depending on your budget.
Link Posted: 12/6/2011 9:00:35 AM EST
[#2]
I have a red dot on the gun now and cant hit crap with it.  i mean like 6" groups at 50yrds.  while with my BUIS i consistently have 2-3" groups at 75yrds.   thats why i wanted to ditch the red dot and go with a scope.
Link Posted: 12/6/2011 9:03:08 AM EST
[#3]





Quoted:



i have a spikes tactical with 16" barrel.  i'd like for it to double as a SHTF gun and a hog hunting gun.





i have a cheap red dot on it along with MBUIS.  i cant hit crap with the red dot and intend to take it off permanently.  i'm considering going with a 1-4x adjustable scope for normal target shooting and hunting, and a green laser for short range quick target acquisition type situations.  this way the gun can perform both functions without having to take off and put on accessories.





does anyone have a better idea?  i'm getting mixed opinions on the 1-4x scopes.  some people love them and some people say they'd rather just have iron sights than a measly 4x scope.  





i'm pretty much a total noob, i just got my AR about a month ago and i have a lot to learn, so go easy please.



What kind of red dot are you using that you "can't hit crap" with? A red dot should be more than enough to hit a mansized target out to about 300Y if you have 20/20 (corrected) vision. So you either need more practice with your current dot, or the dot is so shitty that it's losing zero and that's why you can't hit anything in which case you need to buy a better sight.





On the other hand, if you want to punch holes in paper, the 1-4 isn't enough magnification at any significant range.





The 1-4 scopes are plenty good for SHTF, and are extremely versatile. Most are also built to be very durable and can handle 5 ft drops to concrete just fine (like what I did to my Vortex PST 1-4 during the Rockcastle shoot).





The green laser? Only if you plan on being super tacticool or gonna shoot from the hip which is dumb no matter what range you're shooting from....
 
Link Posted: 12/6/2011 9:05:15 AM EST
[#4]
I think that you are on the right track with looking for a 1-4x scope.  For strictly SHTF, a non magnified red dot or reflex would be better, but for hunting a scope is advantageous.  A 1-4x scope with a retical designed for both might be a good compromise.  I'm just in the research stage myself (never really considered a scope for my AR until now), but I'm looking hard at the Leatherwood CMR and the GRSC 1-4X.  I'll probably still go with an Eotech, but I don't use my AR for hunting.
Link Posted: 12/6/2011 9:17:35 AM EST
[#5]
Quoted:

Quoted:
i have a spikes tactical with 16" barrel.  i'd like for it to double as a SHTF gun and a hog hunting gun.

i have a cheap red dot on it along with MBUIS.  i cant hit crap with the red dot and intend to take it off permanently.  i'm considering going with a 1-4x adjustable scope for normal target shooting and hunting, and a green laser for short range quick target acquisition type situations.  this way the gun can perform both functions without having to take off and put on accessories.

does anyone have a better idea?  i'm getting mixed opinions on the 1-4x scopes.  some people love them and some people say they'd rather just have iron sights than a measly 4x scope.  

i'm pretty much a total noob, i just got my AR about a month ago and i have a lot to learn, so go easy please.

What kind of red dot are you using that you "can't hit crap" with? A red dot should be more than enough to hit a mansized target out to about 300Y if you have 20/20 (corrected) vision. So you either need more practice with your current dot, or the dot is so shitty that it's losing zero and that's why you can't hit anything in which case you need to buy a better sight.

On the other hand, if you want to punch holes in paper, the 1-4 isn't enough magnification at any significant range.

The 1-4 scopes are plenty good for SHTF, and are extremely versatile. Most are also built to be very durable and can handle 5 ft drops to concrete just fine (like what I did to my Vortex PST 1-4 during the Rockcastle shoot).

The green laser? Only if you plan on being super tacticool or gonna shoot from the hip which is dumb no matter what range you're shooting from....


 


its a sightmark.  it came on the gun when i bought it.  they're like $80 online so i know they're far from top quality.  maybe thats the issue, its just a crappy sight.  but i'd hate to spend $400 on a better one only to have the same issue all over again.  as far as i know my vision is fine.  is it normal for the actual red dot u use to aim with to move all over the damn place with any movement of the gun?  cuz thats my issue.  if the dot were stationary i could see it being of some use, but the dot isnt stationary, so its pretty useless to me.

and lol i have no interest in being tacticool.  i dont want anything on the gun thats not 100% functional.  a friend told me that they're very bright at night and are popular with night-time hog hunters who cant afford night vision scopes.  i figured it would also double for fast short range shooting like on a pistol, but i've never used one, so thats just me and my guess work.

Link Posted: 12/6/2011 9:26:01 AM EST
[#6]
I have no personal experience with a sightmark, so I can't comment.



I don't know what you mean about the dot not staying stationary. if you keep your head stock still and move the rifle around in front of you, of course the dot will appear to move as well. Trust the dot though, most red dots are parrallax free, which means even if you change your viewing angle through the red dot, the dot will always remain pointing at where the barrel is (assuming proper zero).



Try a $150 Vortex Strikefire; a much superior dot to the sightmark that won't break the bank. Go from there. Otherwise, a Nikon 1-4 scope w/ rings can probably be had for the $250 range during a sales event.
Link Posted: 12/6/2011 9:32:14 AM EST
[#7]
Check out Primary Arms.  They sell a variety of good lower cost optics that will hold zero and stand up to most of what the general shooting population will throw at them.  They even make a 1-4x scope if you want to give one of those a shot.  I've got two of their micro dot sights one on my AK and one on my AR both of which are good sights.  I thought about giving the 1-4x a shot but haven't yet but it's got good reviews all over the site.
Link Posted: 12/6/2011 10:51:07 AM EST
[#8]
OP, I am also looking for a 1-4 power scope.  I was looking at the Primary Arms to begin with b/c I own a PA M4 Red dot and have bought some other items from them.  They have amazing customer service.  After doing some research I ran across the Leatherwood Hi-Lux CMR 1-4x24mm Scope.  I personally do not own one yet so I can not give you my opinions on it but here is a link to somebody who can:

Leatherwood Hi-Lux CMR 1-4x24mm Scope

Link Posted: 12/6/2011 11:01:41 AM EST
[#9]
Look at Redfields or Weavers low magnification scopes.  Cheap and well built.  If you want a red dot, you can add one in an offset mount later down the road.
http://swfa.com/Weaver-1-3x20-Classic-V-Rifle-Scope-P2864.aspx
http://swfa.com/Redfield-2-7x33-Revolution-Rifle-Scope-P44467.aspx

Both made in the US of A
Link Posted: 12/6/2011 11:05:41 AM EST
[#10]
Quoted:
Check out Primary Arms.  They sell a variety of good lower cost optics that will hold zero and stand up to most of what the general shooting population will throw at them.  They even make a 1-4x scope if you want to give one of those a shot.  I've got two of their micro dot sights one on my AK and one on my AR both of which are good sights.  I thought about giving the 1-4x a shot but haven't yet but it's got good reviews all over the site.


This.

Plus when the front lens cap is closed it works as a Red Dot of sorts if you shoot with both eyes open.

Link Posted: 12/6/2011 11:19:00 AM EST
[#11]
I have both the PA 1-4 and the Leatherwood CMR 1-4. Both seem well built and have been trouble free for several thousand rounds. The reticles are very different however.

The PA has a red dot with regular looking crosshairs. The CMR has a ranging reticle which is more useful for long (300+ yd) shots with a green dot.

Both are heavy - in the neighborhood of 16 ozs. The CMR is approximately 1 inch shorter.

Clarity - no contest - CMR wins hands down. The PA gathers less light and is overall less clear. The CMR is extrememly bright and clear.

Neither are 100% true 1x but close, very close.

I use them both and like them both. I prefer the CMR due to the reticle and its clarity and the fact that it's light switch is offset as to not interfere with shooting both eyes open. OTOH you can buy 2 PA's with mounts and have change left over for the cost of the CMR.

If you have never used a 1-4 do youself a favor and get one. I use my rifles for hunting and HD. 1x4 is a great do-all option.
Link Posted: 12/6/2011 11:34:07 AM EST
[#12]
thanks guys.  after reading this it seems i have no idea how to use a red dot, so i'm sure its me and not the sight.

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php/8460-anybody-use-red-dot-sights

probably still going to look into a 1-4x scope so i appreciate the links and advice!!
Link Posted: 12/7/2011 3:23:56 AM EST
[#13]
Quoted:
thanks guys.  after reading this it seems i have no idea how to use a red dot, so i'm sure its me and not the sight.

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php/8460-anybody-use-red-dot-sights

probably still going to look into a 1-4x scope so i appreciate the links and advice!!


To use a red dot sight, keep both eyes open, look at the target, and mount the rifle.  The dot should magically apear on the target.  

Not sure how you could be using it wrong.  Are you cross-eye dominant?  I am, and it does cause a slight POI shift when I use a red dot.
Link Posted: 12/7/2011 5:33:43 AM EST
[#14]
I screwed up and ordered a Barska due to budget constraints before doing enough research. I have a vision problem and feel I need at least 2x. I'm thinking about sending the Barska back when it gets here






and order a Vortex Viper HS or PST 1-4x24 with illuminated reticle. Anyone have thoughts on the Vortex?

 
Link Posted: 12/7/2011 8:14:46 AM EST
[#15]
Quoted:
I screwed up and ordered a Barska due to budget constraints before doing enough research. I have a vision problem and feel I need at least 2x. I'm thinking about sending the Barska back when it gets here

and order a Vortex Viper HS or PST 1-4x24 with illuminated reticle. Anyone have thoughts on the Vortex?
 


Trading the Barska in on a nicer optic is a great idea.  Vortex optics are highly regarded for being great for the money.  Also check out the Leatherwood CMR if on a budget; SWFA sells it for a little over $300 with the mount included.  If that is still over your budget, check out the options from Priamry Arms (1-4X or fixed 3X).
Link Posted: 12/7/2011 8:21:00 AM EST
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I screwed up and ordered a Barska due to budget constraints before doing enough research. I have a vision problem and feel I need at least 2x. I'm thinking about sending the Barska back when it gets here

and order a Vortex Viper HS or PST 1-4x24 with illuminated reticle. Anyone have thoughts on the Vortex?
 


Trading the Barska in on a nicer optic is a great idea.  Vortex optics are highly regarded for being great for the money.  Also check out the Leatherwood CMR if on a budget; SWFA sells it for a little over $300 with the mount included.  If that is still over your budget, check out the options from Priamry Arms (1-4X or fixed 3X).


Totally agree with this guys post. I have two CMR's and they are good scope. Cheap scopes are only good for 22lr rifles. You might also want to look at Burris Tac30 or Burris Mtac they are excellent scopes for the money.
Link Posted: 12/7/2011 8:39:20 AM EST
[#17]
Thanks guys, will check those out.






But I really like the reticle on the Vortex, not to mention the 1-4x capability.

 
Link Posted: 12/7/2011 8:40:58 AM EST
[#18]



Quoted:


Check out Primary Arms.  They sell a variety of good lower cost optics that will hold zero and stand up to most of what the general shooting population will throw at them.  They even make a 1-4x scope if you want to give one of those a shot.  I've got two of their micro dot sights one on my AK and one on my AR both of which are good sights.  I thought about giving the 1-4x a shot but haven't yet but it's got good reviews all over the site.


+1





I have one on my patrol rifle.



 
Link Posted: 12/7/2011 3:18:47 PM EST
[#19]
I use the Primary Arms as well.  Pretty clear glass, seems durable, and very affordable.
I intend to give it to my wife when I upgrade to the Vortex Viper 1-4x however...
Link Posted: 12/7/2011 4:16:37 PM EST
[#20]
Hmm, now I'm not sure. The Barska came in after dark, so I have yet to see it in daylight. But inside with as much lighting as I can turn on, it is extremely visible on 1. I held it on my 870 and liked it. Never having seen a red dot before, I am impressed.






I'm thinking I may keep it and wait until I get the .300 BLK upper to get the Vortex.

 
Link Posted: 12/7/2011 6:39:06 PM EST
[#21]
Just put a 3-9x40mm on it.  

If you're too close for 3 power, you're close enough to just point and shoot.

But the higher magnifications are a godsend over 50 yards.  I've tried a 1x Aimpoint red-dot on my slug gun for a couple of years.  I didn't like it and went to 3-9x40mm glass.  Now things are right in the world again.  Accuracy has improved and I have confidence in the gun again.  As a result, usable range has also increased.

What I really didn't like about the red-dot was having to "turn-on" and "turn-off" my gun when I was using it.  Then worrying if I turned it off on the ride home, etc.  Also, constantly having to click the rheostat up as the sun got brighter in the morning and then clicking back down as the sun set in the afternoon.  If you don't keep up with that, you might not see a dot or have it so bright it blots out, when you need it.
Link Posted: 12/8/2011 6:38:45 AM EST
[#22]
Quoted:
I honestly think a scope is a bit much for a SHTF gun.


I totally disagree.

NO ONE can predict specifically what kind of $h!t will hit the fan.  Assuming only CQB distance shooting will be needed is extremely short sighted.

Have an optic with the best flexibility would be the better option.



Link Posted: 12/8/2011 11:01:50 AM EST
[#23]
Quoted:
OP, I am also looking for a 1-4 power scope.  I was looking at the Primary Arms to begin with b/c I own a PA M4 Red dot and have bought some other items from them.  They have amazing customer service.  After doing some research I ran across the Leatherwood Hi-Lux CMR 1-4x24mm Scope.  I personally do not own one yet so I can not give you my opinions on it but here is a link to somebody who can:

Leatherwood Hi-Lux CMR 1-4x24mm Scope



That is a good review, he isn't exaggerating the quality of the glass either. These are amazing scopes for the cash.



Don't go cheap on the mount. I like American Defense and LaRue.
Link Posted: 12/8/2011 11:35:43 AM EST
[#24]



Quoted:



Quoted:

I honestly think a scope is a bit much for a SHTF gun.




I totally disagree.



NO ONE can predict specifically what kind of $h!t will hit the fan.  Assuming only CQB distance shooting will be needed is extremely short sighted.



Have an optic with the best flexibility would be the better option.







+1





 
Link Posted: 12/8/2011 11:58:38 AM EST
[#25]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
I honestly think a scope is a bit much for a SHTF gun.


I totally disagree.

NO ONE can predict specifically what kind of $h!t will hit the fan.  Assuming only CQB distance shooting will be needed is extremely short sighted.

Have an optic with the best flexibility would be the better option.



+1  

Geez, pile on . . . my opinion is lighter weight, less clunkiness, and faster target acquisition easily out to 100+ yds with both eyes open.  Do you really think you will need to be picking off people past 100yds in any sort of scenario ?  Anywho, sorry about that rant.



Link Posted: 12/8/2011 12:00:28 PM EST
[#26]



Quoted:

Geez, pile on . . . my opinion is lighter weight, less clunkiness, and faster target acquisition easily out to 100+ yds with both eyes open.  Do you really think you will need to be picking off people past 100yds in any sort of scenario ?  Anywho, sorry about that rant.







I think your point has merits. I wasn't trying to pile on, just saying that I agree with the other poster.



I wouldn't want to limit myself to 100 yards if I have the choice.



 
Link Posted: 12/8/2011 1:54:03 PM EST
[#27]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Geez, pile on . . . my opinion is lighter weight, less clunkiness, and faster target acquisition easily out to 100+ yds with both eyes open.  Do you really think you will need to be picking off people past 100yds in any sort of scenario ?  Anywho, sorry about that rant.



I think your point has merits. I wasn't trying to pile on, just saying that I agree with the other poster.

I wouldn't want to limit myself to 100 yards if I have the choice.
 


Basically, . . . NO option is right for every occasion . . . as evidence of the last few posts, haha.
Link Posted: 12/8/2011 2:15:13 PM EST
[#28]
Ok -don't know your experience level so take anything I say with a grain of salt and don't get upset.

Shooting a gun isn't like TV or the movies. Any type of sight,dot or magnified optic isn't going to guarantee hits if you are not holding the gun still or fairly still when you pull the trigger.

Unless your dot is huge it should give similar groups as iron sights at fairly close distances. Out past 100 yards the dot covers so much of the target it generally gets sloppier than good irons

Some of the lower end (yup-your $80 sight is in this slot) dots just don't mount solid and the adjustments are not so hot. the ones with more than one reticule usually are fairly poor compared to the single dot types. Most of these will do way better than 6" at 50 yards.

What are we talking here when you say 6" at 50 ? Are you across a solid bench on your elbows or a rest or are you just standing there blasting away holding the gun in your hands?

If you are just standing there blasting the 6" is just average for someone without experience in position shooting

If you are on a bench with a solid rest the 6" really sucks.
To your question ,with a bit of practice the low power scope should work better than a cheap dot,

Give us some more info and we will try to get you squared away
Link Posted: 12/8/2011 6:13:00 PM EST
[#29]
Only problem I had with a red dot was I chose the wrong size dot for the job.  I had a Pro Point 3 with a 5 moa dot, and the targets were smaller than the dot at 100 yards.  They would disappear behind the dot, and group size wasn't what I would've liked it to be.
Link Posted: 12/11/2011 8:18:10 AM EST
[#30]
Quoted:
Ok -don't know your experience level so take anything I say with a grain of salt and don't get upset.

Shooting a gun isn't like TV or the movies. Any type of sight,dot or magnified optic isn't going to guarantee hits if you are not holding the gun still or fairly still when you pull the trigger.

Unless your dot is huge it should give similar groups as iron sights at fairly close distances. Out past 100 yards the dot covers so much of the target it generally gets sloppier than good irons

Some of the lower end (yup-your $80 sight is in this slot) dots just don't mount solid and the adjustments are not so hot. the ones with more than one reticule usually are fairly poor compared to the single dot types. Most of these will do way better than 6" at 50 yards.

What are we talking here when you say 6" at 50 ? Are you across a solid bench on your elbows or a rest or are you just standing there blasting away holding the gun in your hands?

If you are just standing there blasting the 6" is just average for someone without experience in position shooting

If you are on a bench with a solid rest the 6" really sucks.
To your question ,with a bit of practice the low power scope should work better than a cheap dot,

Give us some more info and we will try to get you squared away


sorry i thought this thread had died and i never checked back.

well my experience level is that of a farm boy basically.  grew up shooting .22's, 12g's, and 30/30's.  my experience with a red dot is zero up until 2 months ago when i bought this gun with one on it.  when i say 6" groups at 50yrds i'm talking about with a rest and taking my sweet ass time trying to get it perfect.  like i said, with my BUIS the groups were about 2" at 75yrds so i know its not me being unsteady or jerking the trigger.  

i'll try to explain my problem with the red dot better.  i have a feeling it has something to do with this whole "parallax free" thing.  if u put the gun on a rest and hold it perfectly still, look through the red dot with both eyes, but then move your head to the left, the dot moves to the left, and i dont mean a little, i mean a lot.  this goes with any direction u move your head, up, down, left or right.  the dot moves all over the damn place.  now i read that when using a red dot "if the dot is on your target u will hit it", but that cant be possible with my red dot.  without moving the gun at all i can move the dot all over the place by moving my head/eyes.

i still want to go with the 1-4x scope.  i'm just trying to decide how hard its going to be go change the gas block to get rid of my front sight.  since i have zero experience working on an AR i assume it wont be easy, but i think i can pull it off with the help of youtube lol.

Link Posted: 12/11/2011 9:00:43 AM EST
[#31]
Consider chopping your front sight to keep the gas block portion pinned into place.

A good trigger will do wonders for getting a smooth shot off. You can look into some reduced power springs from JP Enterprises to bring your stock trigger pull down to about 5 lbs.

As for your original inquiry, you get what you pay for. Throw down for a good red dot and see what your rifle can do. Aimpoint M2's can be found on the EE for less than $300. You could snag a quality red dot and a mount for under $400 if you're patient and have the cash ready to go. In the meantime, practice with your irons. After all, if the red dot goes they are going to be your primary optics. In a SHTF scenario, you probably aren't going to be shooting out past 100 yards anyway. You want an optic that is going to let you engage targets quickly.

If you want the best of both worlds then you are talking about dropping some serious coin. I know because I'm going through the same thing you are right now. I have a 14.25" carbine and am interested in a 1-4 variable scope for 3 gun applications (which is kind of practice for a SHTF scenario when you may have to run n gun). My experience has only been with Aimpoints so I'm spoiled in that regard. If you want a scope reticle that's going to be fast on target like a red dot but with the kind of accuracy at longer ranges that you would expect from a scope, well, like I said you are going to pay for it.

What's your budget again? I may have missed that.

edited to add: here you go.

Aimpoint ML2 in LaRue mount $375
Link Posted: 12/11/2011 9:47:05 AM EST
[#32]
I too am a country boy and use a rifle for all sorts of duties. It goes with me every evening on the farm.
It may be called on to dispatch a groundhog or coyote or just burst some rocks.
I have red dots, and high magnification scopes, but the 1x4 is far and away the best alternative I have found for the everyday rural AR.
High power scopes are best for long range precision - red dots for up close and personal - 1x4 for real life - everyday in the country - use.
Rapid close fire on 1x and the ability to precisely hit distant targets on 4x. The CMR has the best precision reticle I have found.

I have even added the 1x4 PA to a dedicated .22 upper and use it for squirrel hunting. It's a lethal combination!

Get a 1x4...you won't regret it.

ETA: Both my 1x4's sit on M4 type rifles with the fixed front sight. You will not notice the front sight in the "real world".
Link Posted: 12/11/2011 10:39:21 AM EST
[#33]
Quoted:
I too am a country boy and use a rifle for all sorts of duties. It goes with me every evening on the farm.
It may be called on to dispatch a groundhog or coyote or just burst some rocks.
I have red dots, and high magnification scopes, but the 1x4 is far and away the best alternative I have found for the everyday rural AR.
High power scopes are best for long range precision - red dots for up close and personal - 1x4 for real life - everyday in the country - use.
Rapid close fire on 1x and the ability to precisely hit distant targets on 4x. The CMR has the best precision reticle I have found.

I have even added the 1x4 PA to a dedicated .22 upper and use it for squirrel hunting. It's a lethal combination!

Get a 1x4...you won't regret it.

ETA: Both my 1x4's sit on M4 type rifles with the fixed front sight. You will not notice the front sight in the "real world".
[url=http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac40/allen-trull/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0074.jpg]http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac40/allen-trull/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0074.jpg[]


wow really?!  u dont see your front sight when u look through the scope with that set up?  thats awesome news!  if thats the case its gonna save me at least $100 for a new gas block and flip up front sights.  did u have to look for an especially tall mount?
Link Posted: 12/11/2011 11:01:26 AM EST
[#34]
The PA on the .22 is in the PA mount they sell for $19. The 6920 with the CMR has a PEPR QD mount.

You can see the front sight on low magnification, but it doesn't hurt a thing and is easily ignored. On 4x the sight is gone.

In my life, I might want to shoot a squirrel at 50-75 yards, or a groundhog or coyote at 2-300. A red dot just isn't as accomodating.

I do believe the red dots are the way to go for a gaming or a strictly HD rifle, but a 1x4 with a fine reticle makes the AR a great farm gun capable of making incredibly accurate hits at distance
while still allowing rapid close range engagement. Kind of a jack of all trades.
Link Posted: 12/11/2011 7:58:49 PM EST
[#35]
I like the 1-4 concept with an offset red dot or irons.

Of course, with offsets, the scope can jump to a higher power variable.
Link Posted: 12/20/2011 11:10:36 PM EST
[#36]
After reading all the posts and looking at reviews, I finally decided to send the Barska back. The illumination power knob was feeling very loose after turning it on and off just a few times anyway.






I ordered a CMR from SWFA. I remember back in the seventies seeing an ART at a match and wanting one very bad. So I'm finally getting something the developer of the ART had something to do with.
 

 
Link Posted: 12/21/2011 10:20:22 AM EST
[#37]
Ive play around with 1-4x and magnifiers etc! on M4`s

I will stick with aimpoint or even my 551 iffytech
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 2:20:39 PM EST
[#38]
I realize this is not the best time of year to order stuff. But when I ordered the Leatherwood CMR from SWFA, I did not expect it to arrive before Christmas. However, it took SWFA two days to send me an email telling me









that the SWFA S.S.A.L.T. mount I ordered was back ordered for 2-3 weeks. They still have not answered my question as to whether they are going to ship the scope or hold it until the mount is available. I sent a reply










asking if the similar Burris mount is in stock and if they would cancel the S.S.A.L.T and send the Burris. Guess I'm just spoiled by Midway and similar sites stating back ordered, not available on the item page.




Edit: Issue resolved, scope and mount shipped.


 
Link Posted: 12/28/2011 5:27:06 PM EST
[#39]
The CMR came in today. Got it mounted and it looks great. I think I'm going to love this scope. Can't wait to shoot with it.
Link Posted: 12/29/2011 5:49:24 AM EST
[#40]
I see that several people here have listed the Primary Arms scope - that is a very nice scope!  The only thing that hurts it or the Millet DMS or any of the others is weight.  the scope by it's nature will be heavy, ad this one weighs in at 18oz.  Add a mount and you are getting up there.  You may want to take a look at the BSA Goldstar 1-6.  yes, it's a BSA, but I have seen one and it is impresive, and has a great optical range.

That said, if you want to go under $160, then go with the Primary Arms Scope - they are very nice!
Link Posted: 12/29/2011 8:03:33 AM EST
[#41]
How does the Optisan compare?
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