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Posted: 7/2/2010 9:05:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2010 7:47:05 AM EDT by SoCalTrojanSoldier]

Which Lube Protects the Best? Part II


This is part two of the original thread found here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=7&t=485547

First of all I want to thank Tom Miller of Spikes Tactical for the Bob Marvel Gun Lube, team member OneUp provided the Eezox and the Break Free Collectors and team member ucrt provided the Clenzoil and the Triflow.

I have a collection of gun lubricants that seems to get bigger on a regular basis. Most of the time, when someone makes a suggestion and there is a lot of concurrence, I’ll go out and try it out. I currently lube with Slip 2000 EWL or Mil-comm TW25B for most of the firearms. And Clean with Break-free (BF)CLP and Slip 2000 725. I clean the bore with either Hoppes #9 or Break-free Bore foam and leave a layer of BF CLP in the bore. I finally wipe down the outside of the weapon with BF CLP before putting it away.

Living in the northeast USA (at the shore) I have been concerned about the effectiveness of the various oils in preventing rust formation, especially in the safe. It always seems the air is damp in there despite using a golden rod and two rechargeable desiccant dehumidifiers.




I also use an Eva-dry 1100 mini dehumidifier. It needs to be emptied every week. I got the idea from this thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=46&t=305206

Typically, the inside of the safe is about 73 degrees and the humidity can vary between 39% to 49%. It drops down when I recharge the desiccant dehumidifiers. (The small hygrometer in the back is a cheap humidor hygrometer and seems off)

Thus I decided to conduct my own non-scientific study of the various oils I have around. I tend to clean my weapons immediately after use and rotate through all of them so that each one gets cleaned and inspected several times a year. This is not a test of the lubricating properties.

Materials and Methods:

-Four steel plates
welding grade, no zinc 4”x18” (divided into nine columns with a sharpie marker):

Two plates for the indoor test and;
Two plates in the back yard exposed to the elements.

Each plate was sanded with a power sander to remove any lacquer and each plate was cleaned and denatured with alcohol and thoroughly dried.

-Two drops of each of the following per column (rubbed in with finger and excess wiped off – I used soap and water between each sample).

Plate 1:
-BF LP (Squeeze bottle)
-BF CLP (Squirt bottle)
-BF CLP (Spray can)
-BF Collector Oil
-CONTROL
-Eezox
-Slip 2000 EWL (squirt bottle)
-Bob Marvel Custom Oil (Spikes Tactical)
-Mobil 1 Extended performance 5W-30


Plate 2:
-KG4 (squeeze bottle)
-Triflow tube (oil)
-Machine Gunners Lube (sample from Larue)
-Hoppes gun oil (squeeze bottle)
-CONTROL
-Clenzoil (squeeze bottle)
-Rem Oil (Spray can)
-TW25B (tube-white grease like lube)
-WD40 (Spray can) – some people use this as a cleaner but I don’t think anyone uses it as a lube.

The drops were rubbed into a light sheen as I would for my weapons and wiped down. (Care was taken to prevent cross contamination). I wiped down each column with surgical sponges (no lint). Each column used a new sponge.

The Plate was left outside. Outside stats by The Weather Channel.

The top of the plates were used as a control as well as the one column in the middle on each plate.

For the indoor test, I placed the plates in a high humidity area but away from the elements. I placed them on the stairs under the Bilco doors leading to the basement. The bottom of the stairs are enclosed and thus the humidity says fairly high in the stair well. I felt the test would take too long for truly indoors next to the safe.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~

Test Start:
13June10
; 1710: (day 1)
Outside Temp 70, Humidity 83%, Dew Point 65, Weather overcast:




Inside Temp 70, Humidity 76%:




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~

14June10; 0817: (day2)
Outside: T 67, H 88%, DP 63, W rain overnight-drizzle all day




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~

15June10; 0742 : (day 3)
Outside: T 70, H 78%, DP 63, W sunny




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~~~

16June10; 0933: (day 4)
Outside: T 70, H 72%, DP 61, W cloudy




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<­br>
20June10; 1750: (day 7)
Outside: T 94, H 35%, DP 62, W sunny/dry – most of week was very humid





Inside: T 70, H 65%:




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

23June10; 2143: (day 10)
Outside: T 81, H 58%, DP 65, W sunny – light showers yesterday




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~

27June10; 1650: (day 14)
Outside: T 92, H 52%, DP 72, W scattered showers




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~~

30June10; 0654: (day 17 - last day for outdoor test)
Outside: T 66, H 48%, DP 45, W sunny–most of week was very, very hot >90 and very, very humid





Inside: T 72, H 61% - No rust yet stay tuned






Outside test done:
After the Eezox developed rust. I cleaned each respective section with the respective oil to see whether the oil cleaned the rust off:


I cannot explain why EWL worked better in this test compared to the last and CLP did not work as well as before. I did take care not to cross contaminate each section.

I did take this test out longer than the first test. The humidity varied more in the summer (current test) than the winter (first test) and the time of day may have some effect on the humidity.

If you noticed the BF CLP seemed to work longer in the first experiment but it was in the middle of winter. Possibly the cold helped it stay put longer in winter? It took four days in this test for signs of rust with the BF CLP but five days in the winter. Maybe it washed off with the rain in the heat? The difference between the spray can CLP and the squirt bottle CLP and the BF LP seemed consistent.

This time the EWL Lasted far longer than in the first test. The pics form the first test show that The EWL streaked in the winter and showed rust after four days but lasted almost 17 days in the summer. Does the heat of the summer help the EWL bond better with the crystalline structure of the metal? Maybe I'll try it in my bbl and see if the lands get cleaner with each use.

There is no question that Eezox lasted very well in the summer but I did not test it in the winter. I've seen this in other tests online.

It is obvious that some products did poorly in the winter as well as the summer.

The indoor test is still going and I want to see how long it takes to develop rust on the control. Another reason I did this test was because I think my Colt 1911 had a little rust from being in the safe. The weapon felt rough but there was no visible rust however, when I cleaned it the metal felt smoother and the white surgical sponge I used to clean had a very light brownish tint. The finish still looked perfectly fine.

Some of these products may be perfectly fine lubes especially in a pinch to keep the rifle running however I'm pretty sure the EWL, CLP and now Eezox will be in my cleaning kits for now on. If I were in a situation where I used and cleaned my weapon daily I think the lubricating and cleaning properties would be more important to me.

I think I'll have to run one more test on the EWL just to see some reproducibility.

Stay tuned for the update on the indoor test.

11July10: (day 28)
Indoor 22:35 T:73 H:70





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

21Aug10:
(day 69) Rust starting to form on the non protected areas (corners, control, and in between areas) and surprisingly on the area protected by Bob Marvels
Indoor 18:46 T: 77 H: 76




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~

26Nov10: 5 months
Indoor



Link Posted: 7/3/2010 2:20:24 AM EDT
Quite a write-up.

What are you going to use now?
Link Posted: 7/3/2010 3:25:41 AM EDT
.

SoCal,
Thanks again for all of your work. Very well done & informative.

To me, what's really telling is how bad some common oils did at the 4-day mark. I think that is an important time because you might have shot in the rain, got home late (or whatever) and you didn't have time to clean your guns right away. Your info might put some urgency into some peoples cleaning routine.

For the overall ratings, according to the pics, looks like the best 3 in this order are: Slip2000 EWL, EEzox, CLP Collector. Seeing it live, Is that how you would rate them?

I was surprised to see that TW25B grease did so poorly. I always thought "grease" was the best??

I'm sure you'll get another pile of "sugestions", so let me get mine in early. Next test, take 3 or 4 of the best oils from this test, put each oil on a different one of the fine looking AR's in the pictures, and see how they hold up. Don't forget to have one for the "control"! Now THAT would be taking one for the team...

Seriously though, great job. Thanks a lot!

.
Link Posted: 7/3/2010 6:03:32 AM EDT
Thanks for the info I found the results a little shocking, some of my old stand by's did not do so good makes a person really think things over.
Link Posted: 7/3/2010 1:35:43 PM EDT
Thanks for the great work.

TAG.
Link Posted: 7/3/2010 3:38:37 PM EDT
So Cal this is a fantastic write up and experiment......this is the stuff that I like to read about....as an engineer in the machinery business and R&D department, your approach to the problem is great, the control specimen and etc is great.....

I use Slip 2000 and I was glad to see it fared well.....I was disappointed in the Mobil 1, as I work for the BIG company that makes the stuff.

77
Link Posted: 7/4/2010 7:46:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2010 7:49:26 AM EDT by kaos]
Great write up, the photos were a dramatic indicator.

Thanks for the time and effort expended.

I too was surprised by the results of the outside test.

Link Posted: 7/4/2010 7:47:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2010 7:48:34 AM EDT by kaos]
Damn.


Link Posted: 7/8/2010 5:19:39 AM EDT
Excellent write up, perhapse the difference in the test times in the CLP and EWL could be tested by doing two more plates with multiple samples of each.

The average would take out some of the variability.

However at this point its like splitting hairs
Link Posted: 7/9/2010 3:42:35 AM EDT
Very good read, thank you
Link Posted: 7/9/2010 7:06:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2010 7:07:51 AM EDT by RRichie09]
I noticed in your frist test the plates got pretty wet. This could have washed away the EWL leaving the metal unprotected.

If you are going to retest, maybe you should protect one sample treated with EWL from direct moisture.

Although I live in California, I have spent several years in MA, NY, and NJ. I understand why you are so concerned about rust haha.


Thanks for taking the time to do these tests. While, as you mentioned, they are not scientific in the truest sense, they are still informative. We don't use our guns in labortories afterall.
Link Posted: 7/11/2010 7:02:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RRichie09:
I noticed in your frist test the plates got pretty wet. This could have washed away the EWL leaving the metal unprotected.

If you are going to retest, maybe you should protect one sample treated with EWL from direct moisture.

Although I live in California, I have spent several years in MA, NY, and NJ. I understand why you are so concerned about rust haha.


Thanks for taking the time to do these tests. While, as you mentioned, they are not scientific in the truest sense, they are still informative. We don't use our guns in labortories afterall.




If it will wash away then it might not be the best gun preservative after all.
Link Posted: 7/11/2010 8:31:40 AM EDT
Some one should also try the old LSA lube..that stuff is pretty thick and always stays put.
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 2:42:59 AM EDT
Well done SoCalTrojanSoldier!! I'm glad that my two mainstays for my safe queens came out on the top end. Definitely reassured me of my choices. Thanks again for the hard work!!
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 3:28:43 AM EDT
EWL is the best lube I have ever used, bar none. I use it exclusively here in Afghanistan. I use it on my M4, M249, M9, M240, and M2 .50 cal. It works extremely well in all of these aplications. It doesn't burn off easy, and best of all it doesn't attract dust. My m4 and M2 will stay relatively dust free on the insides and be able to go without rigorous cleaning after protracted patrols and even sandstorms. Wipe down the outside and the inside is still clean. I love this stuff, and the best thing is, they sent it to me for free. Before I deployed they asked if they could send me a bunch of lube for my unit to deploy with, I said absolutely and they sent me a ton of it. They are stand up guys with an incredible product. Can't recommend it enough.
Link Posted: 7/13/2010 7:46:54 AM EDT
Nice job SoCal!


I like seeing that EWL did so well because that's what I use more than anything. I'm trying out some TW25B and was pretty surprised at how it performed. I was kind of expecting it to do better than some others being a grease and all.

Thanks for posting this! This was very interesting and informative.
Link Posted: 7/13/2010 8:10:49 AM EDT
Tag. Nice write up. I've seen other tests like this. I'm surprised Break-Free CLP did not do better. It'd performed closer to Eezox in the other tests I have seen.

I'm curious––Did you use the same kind of steel in both tests? I suspect direct exposure to the weather explainst the differences between your tests, but it would be interesting to do the same test with the steels and finishes used in ARs (e.g. parked 4150, 8620, etc.).

Good job. Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/13/2010 9:14:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Essayons:
Tag. Nice write up. I've seen other tests like this. I'm surprised Break-Free CLP did not do better. It'd performed closer to Eezox in the other tests I have seen.

I'm curious––Did you use the same kind of steel in both tests? I suspect direct exposure to the weather explainst the differences between your tests, but it would be interesting to do the same test with the steels and finishes used in ARs (e.g. parked 4150, 8620, etc.).

Good job. Thanks.

Thanks everyone for your input. The indoor test is still ongoing. I used the same steel plates from Lowes but I don't know the quality...just welders grade.

The indoor ones don't show any rust yet. This week it's been really hot and humid. We'll see.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 10:50:38 PM EDT
apparently the old fashioned Breakfree CLP still works pretty good.
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 4:17:42 PM EDT
Updated indoor test in OP
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 4:25:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 4:27:56 PM EDT by Forgetfull]
Thanks a lot!

Off topic but how does your Cav Arms compensator work?
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 5:38:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 6:30:55 PM EDT by SoCalTrojanSoldier]

Originally Posted By Forgetfull:
Thanks a lot!

Off topic but how does your Cav Arms compensator work?

As you can see, I live in a ban state and thus have to use a compensator rather than a FH/FS. The Cav Arms compensator is on my LWRC and this is the loudest and most offensive of the compensators that I have. It seems to work just as well as the PWS FSC556 in controlling muzzle rise but has a larger concussion when standing behind and to the side about 5'. My POF has the POF compensator has the worst concussion when directly next to the shooter. And the most of the rest of my rifles have the PWS FSC556 which seems to have the least concussion and is the least offensive to other shooters to the side.

It seems that the pistons are louder and have a larger concussion than the gas DI.

Link Posted: 8/21/2010 7:23:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 7:24:18 PM EDT by Forgetfull]

Originally Posted By SoCalTrojanSoldier:

Originally Posted By Forgetfull:
Thanks a lot!

Off topic but how does your Cav Arms compensator work?

As you can see, I live in a ban state and thus have to use a compensator rather than a FH/FS. The Cav Arms compensator is on my LWRC and this is the loudest and most offensive of the compensators that I have. It seems to work just as well as the PWS FSC556 in controlling muzzle rise but has a larger concussion when standing behind and to the side about 5'. My POF has the POF compensator has the worst concussion when directly next to the shooter. And the most of the rest of my rifles have the PWS FSC556 which seems to have the least concussion and is the least offensive to other shooters to the side.

It seems that the pistons are louder and have a larger concussion than the gas DI.


Thanks for the info. As far as the test, do you think the reason the outside test failed a lot faster was because the rain washed away the lubes? It's interesting that earlier tests of Slip2000 show it not being very rust resistant but this current one shows otherwise. Maybe they altered the formula slightly?

It seems that the inside test is going to last a long long time. Heck the control isn't even rusted at all.

Link Posted: 8/21/2010 7:30:49 PM EDT
I'm also confused with the performance of the Slip EWL. I plan on doing the test again but just with the Slip EWL and the BF CLP. These are the lubes I use the most. I was thinking that possibly I did not shake the Slip EWL before the first test and definitely the snow probably had something to do with it.

For the weapons that really don't get used much I'll be using the EEZOX. I have a NIB Colt 1911 reproduction that actually got me thinking about doing the test.
Link Posted: 8/22/2010 5:40:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Merdoc:
Thanks for the great work.

TAG.

+1, awesome test!

i've always loved Eezox
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 2:24:31 PM EDT
Thanks for the test!
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 7:02:58 PM EDT
Nothing much to say that hasn't already been said, great write up!

I just wish it could have included gunzilla to see how well it protects against rust.
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 6:28:16 AM EDT
Cheap wd40 aint that bad
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 9:54:49 AM EDT
One I would have liked to see is balistol. I use synthetic motor oil, like mobile 1. oz
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:45:52 PM EDT
I recently had a handgun that was lubed with TW25B oil rust on me.

First time for everything.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 9:59:02 PM EDT
Looks like I'll be sticking with Slip!! Thanks for the write up!
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:25:22 AM EDT
If you do another test i suggest you include the new M-Pro7 LPX.
Thanks for taking the time to do the two tests.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:12:07 AM EDT
I realize you can't test every product but I'm curious as to why Weapon Shield wasn't tested.
Link Posted: 10/19/2010 6:21:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By oz1:
One I would have liked to see is balistol. I use synthetic motor oil, like mobile 1. oz


X2. I am interested in seeing ballistol as well.
Link Posted: 10/19/2010 9:26:06 PM EDT
I am impressed with the testing methodology except the "wiping down to a sheen" part.

I would prefer the draw down method where a set amount of product is pulled by an apparatus.

Otherwise, a great comparo.
Link Posted: 10/20/2010 11:20:05 AM EDT
Thank you for an excellent job on this Test.
Link Posted: 10/20/2010 2:46:35 PM EDT
Nice project keep up the good work.
Link Posted: 10/20/2010 3:11:51 PM EDT
Thanks for the test!

Would have liked to have seen Red Lithium wheel bearing grease though... That's what I use on everything.
Link Posted: 10/20/2010 7:05:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2010 7:10:47 PM EDT by shineit]
This testing was with light weight oils and lubes unless I missed something. There were no thick products used or tested like a Red Lithium wheel bearing grease. That would not be comparing apples to apples that would be like comparing apples to oranges. If a guy wanted to test out greases and only grease that would be a fare comparrision. The consistancy of grease being so thick would have to be applied at a pre-determined thickness and then all others would follow suit. Grease should outlast almost any of these thinn lubes used in this test. Might be fun to try for the fun of it..


Sorry, guess I did miss the TW25 Grease. Wow had not noticed this. Oh well, dosnt look like it did very well anyway. A grease test may just be in the works here for me..
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 2:42:21 AM EDT
Wow, I just found this. This should be locked at the top of this topic.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 9:08:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2010 9:08:40 AM EDT by ucrt]
Originally Posted By shineit:
This testing was with light weight oils and lubes unless I missed something. There were no thick products used or tested like a Red Lithium wheel bearing grease. That would not be comparing apples to apples that would be like comparing apples to oranges. If a guy wanted to test out greases and only grease that would be a fare comparrision. The consistancy of grease being so thick would have to be applied at a pre-determined thickness and then all others would follow suit. Grease should outlast almost any of these thinn lubes used in this test. Might be fun to try for the fun of it..


Sorry, guess I did miss the TW25 Grease. Wow had not noticed this. Oh well, dosnt look like it did very well anyway. A grease test may just be in the works here for me..


=======================================

I did a "grease test" of my own and was shocked at how bad grease did overall. Don't know why but thin EEZox and BF Collector easily beat the greases I tried.

.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 7:25:48 PM EDT
i really like this test. kinda funny if you think of it in a ounce vs dollar thing wd 40 did not do to bad.
Link Posted: 11/18/2010 6:02:19 PM EDT
Well done sir. For the price WD40 does a good job for a every day spray lube.
Link Posted: 11/21/2010 7:37:17 PM EDT
I vote sticky
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 5:25:08 PM EDT
great work
Link Posted: 11/27/2010 1:25:31 PM EDT
Great stuff! Hopefully you can try the other stuff out there to see how it performs. Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/28/2010 4:30:25 AM EDT
Good work.

I use CLP for normal storage and Breakfree Collector for long term storage, in lieu of Cosmoline.

The CLP washed off in your test. It's pretty thin to begin with and moves around very easily. Collector is much thicker and stays where you put it.

In any case, no one is going to leave their guns out in the rain for days on end without cleaning, so IMO CLP is still the winner overall.
Link Posted: 11/28/2010 7:48:59 AM EDT
New update in OP indoor test 5+ months.
Link Posted: 11/28/2010 9:57:30 AM EDT
Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/28/2010 3:57:34 PM EDT
Interesting that your Nov 26 plates show different rust patterns for control on plate one and plate two.
Link Posted: 11/28/2010 4:00:51 PM EDT
I agree. I was thinking the same thing. Same metal, pretreated the same. I haven't touched the plates since the start and I might be surprised to see whats on the other side.
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