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Posted: 3/14/2011 12:06:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2011 1:43:12 PM EST by sdailey5]
I posted a while back that I was having some fitment issues with my buffer tube.  If I threaded it in all the way to meet the retainer pin flushly, I could not seat the upper reciever into the lower. Short term solution was to back the tube out one turn, but then I encountered some stock wobble due to some slop in the groove with the pin.  This was all regardless of how much I torqued the castle nut.  

So. . . I was drinking a beer and decided to investigate the situation further.  My final conclusion was that the buffer tube was just too long.  Now what?  Well I'll tell you. I decided to have another beer and use a bench grinder for some "custom fitting".  I ground off approximately 1 thread on the tube, but didn't grind on the lip where the retainer pin fits in.  

From what I can tell, everything appears to be working normally.  I have not fired the gun yet though.

Was this a dumb ass move?


Link Posted: 3/14/2011 12:17:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2011 12:18:22 PM EST by Rockyriver]
If you know what needed fitting and you feel confidant about it, go for it. I have to make different parts fit all the time. The market is flooded with AR parts and sometimes they are a little out of spec.
The only thing I would leave alone would be the trigger group. Fo safetys sake.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 12:19:03 PM EST
It really depends on if you have enough beer to complete the job correctly or if you ran out mid operation...
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 12:21:29 PM EST
How many beers did you really have?
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 12:21:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By slappomatt:
It really depends on if you have enough beer to complete the job correctly or if you ran out mid operation...


There was enough for a correct job. I used a small file to round off the edges and clean everything up.  Had it been a part that was much more expensive than a buffer tube, I probably would not have done it.  I figured that if I messed it up, I would just get another one and hope it was better.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 12:21:37 PM EST
Are you sure you didn't thread it on too far? Can you post some pics?
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 12:22:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By commandowink:
How many beers did you really have?


3
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 12:22:15 PM EST
Good fix.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 12:22:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By Monkey_Wrench:
Are you sure you didn't thread it on too far? Can you post some pics?


With the way that the retainer pin seats into the tube, I didn't think that "in too far" was a possiblity. . .  Am I wrong?
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 12:40:23 PM EST
Sounds like a good fix.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 4:43:30 PM EST



Originally Posted By sdailey5:



Originally Posted By Monkey_Wrench:

Are you sure you didn't thread it on too far? Can you post some pics?




With the way that the retainer pin seats into the tube, I didn't think that "in too far" was a possiblity. . .  Am I wrong?


Yes. I'll say you went a bit too far.



Notching the bottom for the detent is not necessary, the tube only screws in enough to retain it on the edge.

Had you not cut that, the tube would not have extended past the receiver and the lower would have closed normally.



Thankfully, it's only a buffer tube you molested.



 
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 4:48:49 PM EST
I would try spray painting that "nude" edge so it doesn't rust or hat not.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 4:50:31 PM EST
Quick:  Post this in the staking the castle nut post.  We brought up staking, loctite, and double nut.  I think you just reduced weight of a double castle nut, avoided possiblity of having to heat the nut due to the wrong color loctite, and the possiblity of missing the prick punch and hitting your thumb.  

Actually, I think that is a pretty neat fix and great thinking out of the box!

RobF
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 4:54:16 PM EST
rule number one



always "adjust" the cheapest part




I once had a guy come into my bike shop with a frame.

He could not figure out how to remove the chain, so he hacksawed through the frame






Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:03:23 PM EST
Hate to say it but it looks like your lower is out of spec. The buffer retainer detent was drilled to close to the fcg pocket. You can tell that by the way the buffer is sticking into the action by an 1/8th inch or so.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:08:54 PM EST
Well, I feel a little better now. I had actually planned on buying a new, hopefully better tube, but then I decided I would circumcise this one first––if only just for spite. But I think it actually ended up working. I still need to hide the shine though.  Wouldn't want to get caught flashing in the sun during a tactical field strip.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:10:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By jjwheeler2:
Hate to say it but it looks like your lower is out of spec. The buffer retainer detent was drilled to close to the fcg pocket. You can tell that by the way the buffer is sticking into the action by an 1/8th inch or so.


Now I feel worse. . .
I figured my spikes lower would've been within spec
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:18:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By sdailey5:
Originally Posted By jjwheeler2:
Hate to say it but it looks like your lower is out of spec. The buffer retainer detent was drilled to close to the fcg pocket. You can tell that by the way the buffer is sticking into the action by an 1/8th inch or so.


Now I feel worse. . .
I figured my spikes lower would've been within spec


Looks the same as my Stag...

Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:37:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2011 5:38:01 PM EST by beavo451]
What lower is that?Nevermind saw that it was Spike's. I can't recall ever seeing a lower where the buffer retainer area was smooth like that. Plus, a tight castle nut should negate any wobble. Where is your takedown pin? I highly suspect there is something wrong with your lower.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:21:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Monkey_Wrench:

Originally Posted By sdailey5:
Originally Posted By Monkey_Wrench:
Are you sure you didn't thread it on too far? Can you post some pics?


With the way that the retainer pin seats into the tube, I didn't think that "in too far" was a possiblity. . .  Am I wrong?

Yes. I'll say you went a bit too far.

Notching the bottom for the detent is not necessary, the tube only screws in enough to retain it on the edge.
Had you not cut that, the tube would not have extended past the receiver and the lower would have closed normally.

Thankfully, it's only a buffer tube you molested.
 


Iv seen other tubes with the notch too, I think its a comm. tube
The tube is actually longer on the bottom edge too, then notched.



Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:31:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By mybronco2:
Originally Posted By Monkey_Wrench:

Originally Posted By sdailey5:
Originally Posted By Monkey_Wrench:
Are you sure you didn't thread it on too far? Can you post some pics?


With the way that the retainer pin seats into the tube, I didn't think that "in too far" was a possiblity. . .  Am I wrong?

Yes. I'll say you went a bit too far.

Notching the bottom for the detent is not necessary, the tube only screws in enough to retain it on the edge.
Had you not cut that, the tube would not have extended past the receiver and the lower would have closed normally.

Thankfully, it's only a buffer tube you molested.
 


Iv seen other tubes with the notch too, I think its a comm. tube
The tube is actually longer on the bottom edge too, then notched.





I have 1 rifle that has a comm buffer tube and it is not longer or notched!
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:34:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By mybronco2:
Originally Posted By Monkey_Wrench:

Originally Posted By sdailey5:
Originally Posted By Monkey_Wrench:
Are you sure you didn't thread it on too far? Can you post some pics?


With the way that the retainer pin seats into the tube, I didn't think that "in too far" was a possiblity. . .  Am I wrong?

Yes. I'll say you went a bit too far.

Notching the bottom for the detent is not necessary, the tube only screws in enough to retain it on the edge.
Had you not cut that, the tube would not have extended past the receiver and the lower would have closed normally.

Thankfully, it's only a buffer tube you molested.
 


Yes, commercial tube. It came notched like that.

And my takedown pin is right where it's supposed to be I would think. It lines up perfect with the upper receiver.

Iv seen other tubes with the notch too, I think its a comm. tube
The tube is actually longer on the bottom edge too, then notched.





Link Posted: 3/14/2011 11:22:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By DrPain762:
I would try spray painting that "nude" edge so it doesn't rust or hat not.


I wouldn't worry about rust since its aluminum, plus that blingin' edge makes a nice frame for the spikes logo on the buffer.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:23:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 5:29:19 AM EST by BeerBender]
Holy FUCK that is SO WRONG AND SCREWED UP!



Naturally this is a SPIKES TACTICAL.

This is seriously so beyond fucked up unacceptable I'm sitting here wanting to Slap somebody.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:32:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 5:33:35 AM EST by rgrprib]
You may want to try a PWS Enhanced Buffer Tube next time.



These things are great!
Prib
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:39:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By rgrprib:
You may want to try a PWS Enhanced Buffer Tube next time.

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/catalog/PWS_EBTs_L_1.jpg

These things are great!
Prib


This is exactly what will end up replacing the mess I made.  I've been eyeing them for awhile now.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:41:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By BeerBender:
Holy FUCK that is SO WRONG AND SCREWED UP!



Naturally this is a SPIKES TACTICAL.

This is seriously so beyond fucked up unacceptable I'm sitting here wanting to Slap somebody.


Care to elaborate?  I don't kow what you mean. . .
The chop job or the lower?  If the lower, what's wrong with it?  This is my first one so I don't really have past experience to draw on here.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:00:46 AM EST
your receiver extension looks like it would have fit perfectly. the wobble you described is fairly normal until you tighten down the castle nut properly, you are using a castle nut wrench, correct?

all you've really done is used the buffer retaining pin to keep the receiver extension from moving. since you didn't fix the source of the problem, too much play in the receiver extension/endplate or not enough torque on the castle nut, eventually the soft bare aluminum is going to be wallowed out by the steel pin and you'll be back to square one.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 7:38:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By hellbound:
your receiver extension looks like it would have fit perfectly. the wobble you described is fairly normal until you tighten down the castle nut properly, you are using a castle nut wrench, correct?

all you've really done is used the buffer retaining pin to keep the receiver extension from moving. since you didn't fix the source of the problem, too much play in the receiver extension/endplate or not enough torque on the castle nut, eventually the soft bare aluminum is going to be wallowed out by the steel pin and you'll be back to square one.


Good point abou the aluminum on steel, I hadn't thought of that.  Yes, I used a castle nut wrench.  The big problem was that whenever I would get it tight enough to eleminate wobble, then the stock would have torqed a little bit too and the stock was no longer vertically in line with the gun.  It ended up sloping from right to left.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 8:10:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 8:11:02 AM EST by Monkey_Wrench]





Originally Posted By sdailey5:





Originally Posted By hellbound:


your receiver extension looks like it would have fit perfectly. the wobble you described is fairly normal until you tighten down the castle nut properly, you are using a castle nut wrench, correct?





all you've really done is used the buffer retaining pin to keep the receiver extension from moving. since you didn't fix the source of the problem, too much play in the receiver extension/endplate or not enough torque on the castle nut, eventually the soft bare aluminum is going to be wallowed out by the steel pin and you'll be back to square one.






Good point abou the aluminum on steel, I hadn't thought of that.  Yes, I used a castle nut wrench.  The big problem was that whenever I would get it tight enough to eleminate wobble, then the stock would have torqed a little bit too and the stock was no longer vertically in line with the gun.  It ended up sloping from right to left.



Did you install your end plate?



And if you did, why didn't you install the takedown pin?





 
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 8:50:27 AM EST
Yep, got the endplate on there. Take down pin is present too, just not in the picture.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 9:05:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By sdailey5:
Originally Posted By hellbound:
your receiver extension looks like it would have fit perfectly. the wobble you described is fairly normal until you tighten down the castle nut properly, you are using a castle nut wrench, correct?

all you've really done is used the buffer retaining pin to keep the receiver extension from moving. since you didn't fix the source of the problem, too much play in the receiver extension/endplate or not enough torque on the castle nut, eventually the soft bare aluminum is going to be wallowed out by the steel pin and you'll be back to square one.


Good point abou the aluminum on steel, I hadn't thought of that.  Yes, I used a castle nut wrench.  The big problem was that whenever I would get it tight enough to eleminate wobble, then the stock would have torqed a little bit too and the stock was no longer vertically in line with the gun.  It ended up sloping from right to left.


you have to hold it straight while tightening it if there is that much play in the receiver extension kit...

you can't just torque something down and "wish it" to line up.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 9:11:33 AM EST
Biggest thing that stands out to me is that the OP was expecting the extension tube to butt all the way up to the retaining pin when it only needs to screw in just deep enough to "retain" the pin which means simply enough to overlap the ede of of your retaining pin.  Had you done that your extension would not have protruded so far as to make it hard to seat the upper receiver.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 9:45:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By wahoo95:
Biggest thing that stands out to me is that the OP was expecting the extension tube to butt all the way up to the retaining pin when it only needs to screw in just deep enough to "retain" the pin which means simply enough to overlap the ede of of your retaining pin.  Had you done that your extension would not have protruded so far as to make it hard to seat the upper receiver.


This pretty much sums it up.  When I did it this way (as stated above) everything fit properly, but I was having stock wobble issues––which meant I should've focused more on the castle nut than the tube.  Oh well, looks like I'll be buying a PWS Enhanced Buffer Tube now. Darn.

On the other hand, does anybody else have any input on the lower receiver being out of spec?!?!?  The thought never crossed my mind until people started talking about it.
But the gun functions fine, so even if it were out of spec, apparently it doesn't matter?
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 11:49:58 AM EST
sdailey5, are you using a commercial, or a mil-spec tube?
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 12:39:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By sdailey5:
Originally Posted By wahoo95:
Biggest thing that stands out to me is that the OP was expecting the extension tube to butt all the way up to the retaining pin when it only needs to screw in just deep enough to "retain" the pin which means simply enough to overlap the ede of of your retaining pin.  Had you done that your extension would not have protruded so far as to make it hard to seat the upper receiver.


This pretty much sums it up.  When I did it this way (as stated above) everything fit properly, but I was having stock wobble issues––which meant I should've focused more on the castle nut than the tube.  Oh well, looks like I'll be buying a PWS Enhanced Buffer Tube now. Darn.

On the other hand, does anybody else have any input on the lower receiver being out of spec?!?!?  The thought never crossed my mind until people started talking about it.
But the gun functions fine, so even if it were out of spec, apparently it doesn't matter?


I doubt it's out of spec. The buffer pin hole can't get any closer to the edge. The problem was probably just that you've got a tube with a grove. You don't need to go spending a crap ton on a fancy buffer tube. I'd venture to guess millions of ARs have been built with regular ass tubes. Just sharpie the crap out of your "custom" tube and call it a day. If you're really kicking yourself over the whole thing, buy a cheap mil-spec tube and try again. Here's my go to receiver extension: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=27440/Product/CAR_15_M4_RECEIVER_EXTENSION_TUBE (Out of Stock)
Here's another link: http://www.dsarms.com/DSA-US-Made-Mil-Spec-AR15-M4_CAR-6-Position-Mil-Spec-Buffer-Tube––––-MAM4BFR6/productinfo/MAM4BFR6/
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:15:58 PM EST
Thats not a Spikes Lower. Its a Spikes buffer, but not a Spikes Lower!



Originally Posted By beavo451:

What lower is that?Nevermind saw that it was Spike's. I can't recall ever seeing a lower where the buffer retainer area was smooth like that. Plus, a tight castle nut should negate any wobble. Where is your takedown pin? I highly suspect there is something wrong with your lower.




Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:56:44 PM EST
You should NOT have to do this to a receiver extension (a.k.a. buffer tube).  Those that think this is a good "solution", or whatever, shouldn't be working on these guns.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 3:15:32 PM EST



Originally Posted By krichbaum:


You should NOT have to do this to a receiver extension (a.k.a. buffer tube).  Those that think this is a good "solution", or whatever, shouldn't be working on these guns.


Agreed.
Originally Posted By Mobius38:


Thats not a Spikes Lower. Its a Spikes buffer, but not a Spikes Lower!





Sure looks like one!





(From his photobucket, same album)
 
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 3:51:23 PM EST
You did good.

Remember the rules of home gunsmithing:

Measure it with a micrometer,
mark it with chalk,
cut it with a torch/dremel,
grind it to fit,
paint it to match!
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 3:52:45 PM EST
From the opening post there was no indication that the lower was a Spikes Lower. The only thing visible that even looks related to Spikes Tactical is the buffer. The OP did not even mention that the lower was a Spikes Tactical lower. If you had to go into his photobucket account to do so then my recommendation to the OP is to first password protect his photobucket account to keep unwanted people out. Second is to replace that buffer tube since that is the cause of the issue.



Originally Posted By Monkey_Wrench:





Originally Posted By krichbaum:

You should NOT have to do this to a receiver extension (a.k.a. buffer tube). Those that think this is a good "solution", or whatever, shouldn't be working on these guns.


Agreed.
Originally Posted By Mobius38:

That's not a Spikes Lower. Its a Spikes buffer, but not a Spikes Lower!





Sure looks like one!

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/sdailey5/buffer.jpg

(From his photobucket, same album)









Link Posted: 3/15/2011 3:55:17 PM EST



Originally Posted By Mobius38:


From the opening post there was no indication that the lower was a Spikes Lower. The only thing visible that even looks related to Spikes Tactical is the buffer. The OP did not even mention that the lower was a Spikes Tactical lower. If you had to go into his photobucket account to do so then my recommendation to the OP is to first password protect his photobucket account to keep unwanted people out. Second is to replace that buffer tube since that is the cause of the issue.







You seemed very confident calling it a non Spike's lower.



Un-protected photobucket is there for the whole internets to see. I'd also recommend closing it.



 
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:06:59 PM EST
only worry about 'in too far' is if the stock doesn't latch on it's most collapsed position.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:12:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mobius38:
From the opening post there was no indication that the lower was a Spikes Lower. The only thing visible that even looks related to Spikes Tactical is the buffer. The OP did not even mention that the lower was a Spikes Tactical lower.


Originally Posted By Mobius38:
That's not a Spikes Lower. Its a Spikes buffer, but not a Spikes Lower!


Originally Posted By sdailey5:
Now I feel worse. . .
I figured my spikes lower would've been within spec


Well Mobius38, if you will look at the OPs quote above, or go back and read post #17 of this thread you will see that the OP DID in fact indicate that the lower was a Spikes lower.


Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:13:58 PM EST
From what I can see in the OP pictures I don't see anything "wrong" with the solution.  The buffer tube came from the factory with the notch and the tube is threaded in far enough so the protruding pin is in and at the back of the notch.  If the castle nut is torqued correctly it will work.   It appears that the tube had excess  front lip material and would not let the upper fit correctly.  

One should not have to trim any parts and a call to the supplier probably would have gotten a replacement on the way for free, but I don't know and my luck with getting bad parts replaced may be different than the OPs.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:30:13 PM EST
Looks to me like you screwed that buffer tube too far in; if you would've done it correctly, no dremeling would've been necessary.





Is the buffer tube Milspec or Commercial? If it was a Milspec tube then you screwed up, if it was a commercial tube, then perhaps your screwup would not be as bad, but a screwup nonetheless. Lucky for you, milspec buffer tubes are easy to find and you did not go medieval with the lower; then you'd really be up sh*t creek without a paddle.

Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:38:25 PM EST
soon you going to wear the top of your buffer from the upper pushing it back when you close the door....but if it works then dont fix it yet..
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:44:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By jdoming728:
soon you going to wear the top of your buffer from the upper pushing it back when you close the door....but if it works then dont fix it yet..


The carrier is supposed to push the buffer slightly back when you close the two receiver halves together.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:08:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 5:11:40 PM EST by sdailey5]
Ok, let me answer some questions here:

The receiver extension in a commercial one.

Yes, it is indeed a Spikes lower.

I didn't know my imageshack account was going to get plundered, but I don't really mind.  On the other hand, I didn't know that could happen and I will probably lock it just becasue I don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry rifling through my pics and making a list of what I own.

I'm probably going to scrap the tube that I raped and buy a mil-spec version.  Kinda sucks since my CTR stock is made to commercial spec though, but I didn't know about the whole "mil-spec" vs. "commercial" when I started the build.  If I had known, I probably would've gone mil-spec just because it seems more logical.

Somebody posted some good pics of other lowers (don't recall who Black-Tiger, but thanks!) and the only difference I see is the location of the hole for the retainer pin and the the threading going all the way into the lower.  I assume that's not a problem for me though.

Seriously guys, I appreciate all the input.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 8:24:02 PM EST
Hey sdailey5,

If you need a new commercial buffer tube I have one that I will send you free of charge. That way you can still use your CTR stock without having to buy all new stuff. If you want it, answer my PM, or send me a new one and include your address.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 10:50:41 PM EST
I'm thinking the Buffer tube is out of spec. This also leads me to think that the stock will probably have some wiggle to it. Yes there is a differance between brands. You don't need the expensive PWS tube to fix this. Order a new one from Bravo. Reread the instructions on the sticky  of this forums on building a Ar. Install with the plate and castle nut. It make take acouple of tries when to tighten the castle nut to get the tube straight.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Milspec-Receiver-Extension-Buffer-Tube-p/bcm%20milspec%20receiver%20extension.htm

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782
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