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Posted: 9/13/2009 10:02:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 10:13:04 AM EST by LaRue_Tactical]
That is the title of a thread posted in both Sniper's Hide and Calguns ...
Guy sounds pissed. 
CALL TO ARMS, TACTICAL CITY WILL NO LONGER SELL A.R.M.S. INC. PRODUCTS As a retailer we have very little power. We are at the mercy of our suppliers and the manufacturers of the products we sell. We have been treated very poorly by A.R.M.S. Inc., and the only thing we can do about it is make it public and stop carrying their products. A.R.M.S. Inc. is extremely aggressive when it comes to dealing with their competition, and they readily take out their disputes with their competition on us, a very low level vendor. We have had two run-ins with A.R.M.S. Inc. to back up our claim, we’ll start with the most recent. INCIDENT 1: THE MOST RECENT ABUSE OF POWER According to A.R.M.S. Inc, whom I spoke with via phone on September 11, 2009 at 11:59 am, they are in a dispute with Magpul over the design of the MAGPUL MBUS FLIP-UP REAR SIGHT. They feel Magpul made the sight too similar to their own. Fair enough, A.R.M.S. Inc. has a right to challenge Magpul directly on this. We have no problem with that. They can take Magpul to court and see who wins. However, they are not just taking their fight to Magpul, according the lady I spoke with at A.R.M.S Inc., they are taking it out on individual resellers such as myself for selling the Magpul MBUS Sights. One way they are doing this is by reporting any listing of Magpul BUIS Sights to EBAY as a copyright violation, not only getting the listings cancelled but jeopardizing the low level retailers account status. We have 8 listings cancelled for this reason and our compliance rating lowered from GOOD to VERY LOW, thus jeopardizing our account and threatening our ability to make a living. INCIDENT 2: OUR FIRST RUN-IN WITH A.R.M.S. In an effort to get a leg up on their competition A.R.M.S. has trademarked generic terms used to describe their products. One such term is “Throw Lever”. Now, we did our research after this incident, and from what we could tell this is a pretty generic engineering term. There is no way to anticipate it being a trademarked term unless you were previously informed of it. So it is only logical for someone to use this term to describe a ring or mount with such a device on it. Anyone who does so will be reported for trademark violation to eBay. No warning, just instantly reported. Let’s be clear. While we strongly disagree with putting a trademark on generic terms, that is not our complaint. Our complaint is that they did not give us the opportunity to resolve the problem without jeopardizing our eBay account status. A simple email explaining their complaint with our listing would have resulted in our immediate compliance. CONCLUSION A.R.M.S. Inc. deliberately tried to get our eBay account status lowered and possibly suspended because we are selling their competition's products. We consider this an unfair strong arm tactic and feel the need to let people know about it. We will NEVER buy or offer for sale another A.R.M.S. Inc. product. Sincerely, Joe Arrigoni Tactical City Gun & Knife Supply www.tacticalcity.com Clcik here for the .... " whole Sniper's Hide thread " ... and " here " for the Calguns thread ... They say misery loves company, but ain't the case here, what caught my eye was mention of a possible class-action suit a few posts down in the thread. 
Originally posted by Hasher:
I work for a large vendor on the gun show circut. We sell a LOT of Magpul. Some of the guys that buy from us are EBAY vendors. We from time to time also put Magpul and other products on EBAY. All of our ARMS orders have been cancelled. We will never buy or sell another product of theirs. They are simply butt hurt because of the lost market share to Magpul and the MBUS. This is underhanded and sleazy of them. Since they can not compete on a level playing field they are trying to destroy the competition not by going after them but by going after third party vendors instead. One of our resellers happens to be an attorney. He has told me he is already looking for redellers to join him in a class action lawsuit for tort interference. Hope he is successful. 
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Posted: 9/13/2009 10:16:49 AM EST
Tagscribe.
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USA
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Posted: 9/13/2009 10:17:21 AM EST
Mark
Aren't you afraid Metro-Goldwin Mayers will come after you on your oil can graphic on your mounts. saying the image was protected due to its previous use in 1939 in the movie Wizard of Oz to oil the Tin Man? |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 10:19:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 10:21:00 AM EST by Friendly_Crusader]
Double
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Posted: 9/13/2009 10:19:59 AM EST
Maybe I'm just dull but good for them, I replaced all 8 of my ARMS products because 3 of them broke I've never had any other brand of BUIS or aimpoint/accessory mounts break screw the swan |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 10:21:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By DasRonin:
Mark Aren't you afraid Metro-Goldwin Mayers will come after you on your oil can graphic on your mounts. saying the image was protected due to its previous use in 1939 in the movie Wizard of Oz to oil the Tin Man? Hmm, I know one of the gents that ran the studio (for twenty years) ... I'm clean. IIRC, throw levers are what the train guys use to wrestle the tracks over with ... yikes, they better get themselves a damn good lawyer. 
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Posted: 9/13/2009 10:23:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 10:27:57 AM EST by LaRue_Tactical]
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
Maybe I'm just dull but good for them, I replaced all 8 of my ARMS products because 3 of them broke I've never had any other brand of BUIS or aimpoint/accessory mounts break screw the swan Please say you don't have chest of drawers in mind.
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Posted: 9/13/2009 10:29:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By DasRonin:
Mark Aren't you afraid Metro-Goldwin Mayers will come after you on your oil can graphic on your mounts. saying the image was protected due to its previous use in 1939 in the movie Wizard of Oz to oil the Tin Man? Hmm, I know one of the gents that ran the studio (for twenty years) ... I'm clean. IIRC, throw levers are what the train guys use to wrestle the tracks over with ... yikes, they better get themselves a damn good lawyer.
No worries for you Mark.You have "The LaRue Latch". |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 10:37:37 AM EST
What an honorable company ARMS is.
The way they like to sue people makes me think the owner has mental issues. |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 10:52:25 AM EST
I replaced my ARMS #17 with a LaRue surefire mount. Maybe this is why I can't even sell the ARMS mount for $30.00!
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Posted: 9/13/2009 10:59:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 11:00:04 AM EST by myitinaw]
ARMS ....
Sinking, and the band plays on...
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2009 11:20:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By Wespe:
What an honorable company ARMS is.
The way they like to sue people makes me think the owner has mental issues. Ain't Real Mentally Stable 
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Posted: 9/13/2009 11:25:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tom-from-Michigan:
Originally Posted By Wespe:
What an honorable company ARMS is.
The way they like to sue people makes me think the owner has mental issues. Ain't Real Mentally Stable Don't think it's any of that ... my guess is the kids have taken over. If my research is correct, he blustered suing before, but never really did. Now that Techfacts may have the reins ... of the soft mount ... it's a whole nother ballgame. 
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Posted: 9/13/2009 11:33:38 AM EST
Mark, you should contact them and give them a chance to sell your products instead of ARMS.
Seriously. Just another way to stick it to Swan. |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 11:39:09 AM EST
Apparently they haven't heard the old adage "Dick Swan before he dicks you."
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Posted: 9/13/2009 11:44:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 11:49:51 AM EST by TNVC]
"......they are taking it out on individual resellers such as myself for selling the Magpul MBUS Sights.
One way they are doing this is by reporting any listing of Magpul BUIS Sights to EBAY as a copyright violation, not only getting the listings cancelled but jeopardizing the low level retailers account status. We have 8 listings cancelled for this reason and our compliance rating lowered from GOOD to VERY LOW, thus jeopardizing our account and threatening our ability to make a living....." I saw this on the hide early on. No matter how you look at it, this is wrong and not good business sense. This is also VERY concerning as dangerous precedence is being set here. Edited....Reminder to make phone calls tomorrow morning.....  
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Posted: 9/13/2009 11:44:44 AM EST
hmmmm Can anyone say "throw lever popcorn container"?
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Posted: 9/13/2009 12:20:02 PM EST
I just trademarked the word "the"... All of you are in big trouble
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Posted: 9/13/2009 12:22:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By cormorantslayer:
I just trademarked the word "the"... All of you are in big trouble teh. 
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Posted: 9/13/2009 12:24:32 PM EST
No class whatsoever, Mark. No class at all.
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Posted: 9/13/2009 12:32:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 12:32:31 PM EST by LaRue_Tactical]
All fun aside, this guy now has himself a tough and longer row to hoe.
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Posted: 9/13/2009 12:37:38 PM EST
These guys, from the little I hear of them, are plain lawsuit-crazy. WTF
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Posted: 9/13/2009 12:41:56 PM EST
Why bother to innovate when you can litigate?
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Posted: 9/13/2009 12:42:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By steelcomp:
No class whatsoever, Mark. No class at all. Uhhhh....what? |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 1:28:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 1:39:12 PM EST by LaRue_Tactical]
Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Originally Posted By steelcomp:
No class whatsoever, Mark. No class at all. Uhhhh....what? Steelcomp is hard in the "other" camp. Nuttin' we do at LT seems to suit him ... he ain't sw-punisher, but he's close. For instance, here's his response on page one of the OSR thread ... Originally Posted By steelcomp:
I agree about the 16" "sniper" rifle, but it does say different barrel lengths available. It's an intereting looking piece. I wonder if the continuous top rail is a seperate piece, or part of the front handguard. Also interesting looking at the handguard attachment at the reciever. I wonder how (or if) that integrates into the barrel nut. Also don't know why you'd need the little side picatinny's on a sniper rifle. It's like they really didn't want to commit to a true sniper like an AR10T variant. |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 2:03:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Originally Posted By steelcomp:
No class whatsoever, Mark. No class at all. Uhhhh....what? Steelcomp is hard in the "other" camp. Nuttin' we do at LT seems to suit him ... he ain't sw-punisher, but he's close. For instance, here's his response on page one of the OSR thread ... Originally Posted By steelcomp:
I agree about the 16" "sniper" rifle, but it does say different barrel lengths available. It's an intereting looking piece. I wonder if the continuous top rail is a seperate piece, or part of the front handguard. Also interesting looking at the handguard attachment at the reciever. I wonder how (or if) that integrates into the barrel nut. Also don't know why you'd need the little side picatinny's on a sniper rifle. It's like they really didn't want to commit to a true sniper like an AR10T variant. Maybe for THIS reason? 
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Posted: 9/13/2009 2:14:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Got a link to that thread?
Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Originally Posted By steelcomp:
No class whatsoever, Mark. No class at all. Uhhhh....what? Steelcomp is hard in the "other" camp. Nuttin' we do at LT seems to suit him ... he ain't sw-punisher, but he's close. For instance, here's his response on page one of the OSR thread ... Originally Posted By steelcomp:
I agree about the 16" "sniper" rifle, but it does say different barrel lengths available. It's an intereting looking piece. I wonder if the continuous top rail is a seperate piece, or part of the front handguard. Also interesting looking at the handguard attachment at the reciever. I wonder how (or if) that integrates into the barrel nut. Also don't know why you'd need the little side picatinny's on a sniper rifle. It's like they really didn't want to commit to a true sniper like an AR10T variant. |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 2:19:04 PM EST
Not taking sides at all just providing the link:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=404162 |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 2:20:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 2:24:10 PM EST by LaRue_Tactical]
Originally Posted By steelcomp:
<snip> Got a link to that thread? Search gizmos ... ... read and learn yourself up on 'em ... they're dang handy.
ETA - I see CTBuilder done slapped one down ... a link that is. |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 2:58:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 3:01:00 PM EST by steelcomp]
Not sure where I said anything really negative, there, Mark. I'm not sure why you felt the need to quote that.
You realy don't have much respect for people's "opinions" do you, unless of coures they fall in line with your own. I don't think I've ever said anything really negative about any of your products. In fact, I think I've said thy're good. You, sir, on the other hand, come across as a real tool. Again, JMO. |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 3:19:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
Maybe I'm just dull but good for them, I replaced all 8 of my ARMS products because 3 of them broke I've never had any other brand of BUIS or aimpoint/accessory mounts break screw the swan Please say you don't have chest of drawers in mind.
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Posted: 9/13/2009 4:00:38 PM EST
Here I thought the side rail was for an extra grip so that you could blade you rifle.... at a 45!
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Posted: 9/13/2009 4:05:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By steelcomp:
Not sure where I said anything really negative, there, Mark. I'm not sure why you felt the need to quote that. You realy don't have much respect for people's "opinions" do you, unless of coures they fall in line with your own. I don't think I've ever said anything really negative about any of your products. In fact, I think I've said thy're good. You, sir, on the other hand, come across as a real tool. Again, JMO. lighten up man.. he can dish it and take it, can you? |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2009 4:19:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
Originally Posted By steelcomp:
Not sure where I said anything really negative, there, Mark. I'm not sure why you felt the need to quote that. You realy don't have much respect for people's "opinions" do you, unless of coures they fall in line with your own. I don't think I've ever said anything really negative about any of your products. In fact, I think I've said thy're good. You, sir, on the other hand, come across as a real tool. Again, JMO. lighten up man.. he can dish it and take it, can you? I have a suspicion that Mark can be a dick when he wants to be–– just like me and most of you. But Mark makes a quality product, he takes care of his customers–– going above and beyond, and he is a patriot. Let's not forget.... Vendors ARE a manufacturer's customers. Mark takes care of his. ARMS seems to be trying to put one of theirs OUT OF BUSINESS. If ARMS has a valid case against Magpul, let them sort it out in court, and leave everyone else out of it. Ruining a customer???? Now THAT is REAL classy.... BTW Mark... thanks all the stuff you sent with my LR-308's mount. I'll be ordering an Aimpoint and mount from you as soon as I find out where my wife hit my wallet. –– John |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 4:25:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
Originally Posted By steelcomp:
Not sure where I said anything really negative, there, Mark. I'm not sure why you felt the need to quote that. You realy don't have much respect for people's "opinions" do you, unless of coures they fall in line with your own. I don't think I've ever said anything really negative about any of your products. In fact, I think I've said thy're good. You, sir, on the other hand, come across as a real tool. Again, JMO. lighten up man.. he can dish it and take it, can you? Yeah, what he said - lighten up Francis.
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Posted: 9/13/2009 6:06:41 PM EST
Suing magpul for this would cost a lot and gain little. Going after the resellers in this manner even less so... WTF?! All thats going to do is speed their demise even more than their shoddy QC is doing already. When AR's first caught my eye, ARMS looked like the shit. They had whiz bang adaptors and rails for every possible need. Then I started reading arfcom, where I learned that their shit breaks down, and their rail systems double as boat anchors. It seems to me their only hope at staying in business is this "offensive" advertising, where you keep competitors products out of the public eye rather than try to sell your own. If your products sucks compared to the competition, but people don't know about the competition, you still get the sale. Lame.
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Posted: 9/13/2009 8:41:36 PM EST
Good thing I never found ARMS mounts appealing...
This is one customer that will never buy ARMS shit!! Too bad to, I just caught an awful case of BRD and needs mounts ASAP
LT i guess
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Posted: 9/14/2009 3:27:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By AFA:
Good thing I never found ARMS mounts appealing...
This is one customer that will never buy ARMS shit!! Too bad to, I just caught an awful case of BRD and needs mounts ASAP
LT i guess Be careful. You let one or two of those things in the house and they start multiplying. I'm starting to find this out. 
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Posted: 9/14/2009 3:58:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2009 4:11:24 AM EST by timpryor]
FDS
Mark and Company have more than proven thier products for me, and the fact that they go above and beyond on every order I have ever placed through them, not to mention Marks undying support for our troops. Not to mention all they do for ARFcom |
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Posted: 9/14/2009 4:09:36 AM EST
I once bought a used aimpoint with an arms mount on it. I had previously heard about their bullS^&t harassment of LaRue, and sold it just as fast as I could get it off the optic. I hope everyone drops them like they are hot.
Innovate, back up your product, or die a stagnant economic death. Lead, follow, or get out of the way ARMS! |
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Posted: 9/14/2009 5:28:11 AM EST
That's shitty.
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Posted: 9/14/2009 8:32:24 AM EST
Innovate or Die. Wait that's trademarked also
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Posted: 9/14/2009 8:59:14 AM EST
I appreciate Mark LaRue keeping us informed, it doesn't matter to me that this is a "Competitor" of his (if you can seriously call A.R.M.S. that).
Besides the fact that LaRue provides the FINEST mounts on the market, he also 'hangs around" here! I was considering the A.R.M.S. 41B folding front sight, this made up my mind, I'll spend my money with decent companies. My .02 PursuitSS |
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Posted: 9/14/2009 12:00:41 PM EST
Wow.
Glad I sold all my ARMS stuff several years ago.
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Posted: 9/14/2009 12:34:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By steelcomp:
No class whatsoever, Mark. No class at all.
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Posted: 9/14/2009 12:40:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2009 12:41:48 PM EST by chromeluv]
This will have to be the first thing ive ever agreed with Mark on.
Fuck ARMS and anything Swan. Everyone loves capitalism until it happens to them. Welcome to the "big leagues" ARMS. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2009 12:54:27 PM EST
Well, to be fair, ARMS is trying to make a profit and run a company, and if no one is going to buy his products, he has to get the money from somewhere! And the proceeds from one successful suit can fund 3 or 4 more lawsuits!
Dick Swan has been hammering Troy with suits for years. Was just awarded 1.8 mil for one of them, too. |
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Posted: 9/14/2009 1:18:41 PM EST
I need a Cash for ARMS clunkers program to rid myself of my ARMS stuff.
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Posted: 9/14/2009 2:35:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2009 2:37:32 PM EST by yekimak]
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
I need a Cash for ARMS clunkers program to rid myself of my ARMS stuff. That would be cool. I want to replace my 40L but selling it would just prevent someone from buying a BUIS from a better company. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2009 2:59:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By yekimak:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
I need a Cash for ARMS clunkers program to rid myself of my ARMS stuff. That would be cool. I want to replace my 40L but selling it would just prevent someone from buying a BUIS from a better company. Maybe form a 'donation' group to recoup all those ARMS mounts, and then either have one person box them all up and ship them back to ARMS, or 'donate' them to someone who can use them for something useful. Modern art, boat anchor... I wonder how much they are worth in recylcable material? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/14/2009 3:01:58 PM EST
God he's a fucking goofball...didnt he learn from the last time he tried this shit.
I need to put a copyright in on the word "The"...I'll own you all... Let's see, he owns 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19....ect, and now "throw lever". what a freaking nutjob. |
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