Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 8/3/2009 2:45:11 AM EDT
After months of research I finally decided on a what I thought was the Ultimate "Do it all" combat optic.

The Elcan SpecterDR, it was even on SFs block 2 approved optics list.  I figured if it was something SF wanted to upgrade to It must be "up to snuff".

The catch, If I could find one they cost $1800-$2200.

So I used a Millet DMS-1for my 1-4x needs on my AR back home, it took me only a couple months before the battery housing (It's glued on) came off and the illumination was no longer functional.

It did show me that a 1-4x illuminated optic can be very versatile for "tactical/speed" use.  

Then I deployed to Iraq, after a few months I ordered an Elcan SpectreDR from BoTach through an add on Gunbroker months ago, it took 2 months longer than it should have to get to me and there were many issues.  But for $1600 the price makes up for it I guess.

Bottom line.  Even if BlowTach has it in stock expect delays.

Here it is.



First thing I noticed is it is heavy.  However the weight is "all in one" In other words it is similar in weight to and EoTech, or Aimpoint with magnifier and mount.

Second is it looks bulky, again it is still a lot less bulky than the Optic/magnifier combos.

It uses 1 AA 1/3 battery that is common to the Aimpoint M2 and M3s.

Then I took a peak through it, this thing is crystal clear, on 1x there is some distortion around the edges when you have both eyes open using is as a CQB optic.  However it isn't as bad as the DMS-1 and is much "truer" to 1x.

The 4x is just as clear, here is a pic for refferance.



Here is a pic of the Dot illumination on 4 of the 6 settings.  The first 2 are IR and don't show up on camera.



As you can see it has very low "IR" and very high "daylight" settings.  It is very handy the the adjustment knob is marked for all levels of brightness as well as an off.  So unlike the Aimpoint and EoTech it takes the guess work out of knowing weather the optic is turned off or not.

Another great feature is the Cross hair illumination.



One less setting than the dot but I was very impressed with how sharp the lines are on full illum.

The next thing I tried was the 4x setting.  With a little forward and down "flick" of the lever the optic instantly go's from 1x to 4x.  Something very handy when you transition from inside a building to outside.



I like the size of the dot with the different settings.  The higher illumination pulls your eye to it and the lower levels give you more precision.  Outside the higher levels shrink quite a bit in the daylight.

The Cross hair illum was next.


Again crystal clear with plenty of brightness.

I really feel like the cross hair is the ticket with the optic on 4x.  I don't know how they could do it but the only way I could see making this optic much better would be to select the illum settings with the power settings.  IE Dot Illum on 1x and Hair illum on 4x.  But the dot on higher power is quickly growing on me.  I just "feel" faster with the dot.

The first operational "test" was to mount and unmount the optic about a dozen times and check for marring.



Hard to tell on this issued M4 as it is well worn but I didn't detect any marks from mounting or unmounting it.

Hmmm, not marring the rifle...  Maybe the rifle is marring the optic?



Not really...  Can't see it from the pic so much but looking at it I thought that the little scuff marks there looked a bit worse after the process...  They wiped off with a little CLP.




Well this is it for now, I need to put some rounds down range with it mounted, check re zero, and see if the POI shifts with the different power settings.  I'll probably have to wait for a range back at FT.  Bragg as we don't have a range at my current station.  Maybe I'll even get a chance to drag it through the dirt.  It will get some durability testing around here as it gets knocked around in vehicles and such.

Awww but how can you not be worried about scuffing you $1600 optic.

1.  I'm a shooter, I don't pay $1600 or more on optics and weapons for them to be safe queens.  I paid for reliability, accuracy, whatever, and I'm going to drag it through the dirt, shoot thousands of rounds with out cleaning, get it wet, muddy, bake it, freeze it, and treat it as a work horse.  I want to see what works and what doesn't when the S really HTF.

2.  Warrantys,  If you offer a warranty with your "tactical products" they should be soldier proof.  That is "normal ware and tare" better include anything a "normal grunt on the ground" might do to it.  In other words if it fails to work as advertised when I'm putting it through it's paces, the company that makes it better replace it.

As for input, grips, groans, complaints, wishes.

1.  A setting to match Dot Illum to 1x and Hair Illum to 4x.  (Don't even know if its possible)

2.  Maybe a lighter model?  (As it is I think I'd make my M4 non functional by throwing it around before the optic failed.  Maybe that's a good thing.)

3.  And the biggest complaint.  Larue doesn't make a replacement mount for it.  (Yes I love the Larue cool aid)

All in all none of the gripes are anything more than nitpicking (except for the lack of a Larue mount) and doing it different may be a turn off to most people.

I look forward to doing a shooting update and a few torture tests, maybe even a few down and dirty tactical shooting courses.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:08:11 AM EDT
Good review and thanks for your service !!

I bet the 7.62 version would be very nice on my FAL.

EMSflyer
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:29:03 AM EDT
Quoted:
Good review and thanks for your service !!

I bet the 7.62 version would be very nice on my FAL.

EMSflyer


I have a AR10-T that might get a carbine or SBR upper.  So I might need a Second one.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 4:01:02 AM EDT
4. And the biggest complaint. Larue doesn't make a replacement mount for it. (Yes I love the Larue cool aid)


My biggest complaint as well.  Come on Mark, get to work on a mount!
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 5:50:00 AM EDT
I was under the impression only the Dark Earth colored optic was equiped with IR settings.

How does one know which one has IR now?
Is it marked on the optic somewere?


Link Posted: 8/3/2009 9:21:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 9:23:44 AM EDT
Quoted:
We have a NIB 7.62 reticle version in stock if anyone needs one give us a call. We have ONE of these.

Vic


Do you know the answer to my question above about the IR capable models?


Link Posted: 8/3/2009 1:23:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:50:18 PM EDT
I am really happy you like it. Seriously. I am a block 2 enduser and in my unit the specter has not been well recieved. Most guys wont use it.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 4:04:04 PM EDT
Quoted:
I am really happy you like it. Seriously. I am a block 2 enduser and in my unit the specter has not been well recieved. Most guys wont use it.


Issues with the mount, external adjustments, weight and problems holding zero?

If there is anything else please tell those of us who are on the fence about this optic.

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 4:16:35 PM EDT
Thanks for the review it helps me narrow my search ..

Been looking at either the Elcan SpectreDR or the Nightforce 1- 4 NXS for my Noveske N4 rifle-I,ve decided it will be one or the other...
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 5:56:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 3:29:05 AM EDT
I am really happy you like it. Seriously. I am a block 2 enduser and in my unit the specter has not been well recieved. Most guys wont use it


Ok, can you please elaborate?
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 3:39:06 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am really happy you like it. Seriously. I am a block 2 enduser and in my unit the specter has not been well recieved. Most guys wont use it.


Issues with the mount, external adjustments, weight and problems holding zero?

If there is anything else please tell those of us who are on the fence about this optic.



You hit the nail on the head. Mostly the mount though.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 3:43:54 AM EDT
Quoted:
I am really happy you like it. Seriously. I am a block 2 enduser and in my unit the specter has not been well recieved. Most guys wont use it


Ok, can you please elaborate?


The mount (ARMS) is not very good like most ARMS products, and is on backwards- that is, the hardware is on the right (ejection) side. Arms mounts break as I have seen this happen 3x in combat. Also we dont like the bulk and ext. elevatio adjustment. Most guys will use the ACOG  and carry a eo tech or aimpoint  and change them out as needed.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 5:46:34 AM EDT
I could never figure this one out.  

What is the downside to the ARMS release levers being on the ejection side of the rifle?
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 11:27:55 AM EDT
Need a dealer account if you would like to advertise here
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 3:17:27 PM EDT
Quoted:
I could never figure this one out.  

What is the downside to the ARMS release levers being on the ejection side of the rifle?


I don't see any.

If you had the levers on the other side then they would be in the way of the 1x-4x adjustment lever.

Flip the lever to the opposite side and you have to use your firing hand to change magnification settings if your right handed.

I can't wait to see what Larue comes up with as a replacement mount when/if that day comes.

Probably something half the weight and twice as strong.  With a much better repeat zero.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 3:44:33 PM EDT



Removed






Since someone decided to advertise in my thread.





The Elcan SpecterDR can also be found in stock and for less than BlowTachs advertised price at the following distributors.





MDS Optics (but doesn't say calibration)


Dynamic Armament 7.62 calibration


Weapon Parts 5.56 calibration


Weapon Parts 7.62 calibration



 
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 5:13:28 PM EDT
I think the mount is too complicated for Larue to build one considering how many are out there.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 5:25:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 5:26:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 5:45:55 PM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:

3. Batteries. (No military optics use the same batteries as the SpecterDR. However putting a CR123 housing or a AA housing on it would make it much to bulky.)


You might want to check on that one bud.


ETA: yep, its the same batt thats in the Aimpoint M2/M3 and Leupy scopes.


Checked it too.  The off brand battery in the Aimpoint M3 threw me off.  Is is the same as the Duracell AA 1/3 that came with the SpecterDR.

I have edited the OP to reflect the correct info.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 6:01:18 PM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:
I think the mount is too complicated for Larue to build one considering how many are out there.


Pretty much. The scope would have to take a vacation to TX for a week or 2 if LT came up with anything.


I'll disagree,  The "hinge" that locks the optic to the mount just needs a key for each side so it can be unscrewed and removed.

If a new Larue mount included these keys an end user could install it with no more difficulty than any Larue optic mount that requires a star key.
Link Posted: 9/26/2009 6:53:17 PM EDT
I purchased one last week. Compared to the ACOG there is no comparison. The Elcan has a big, wide, glass to stare through with both eyes open. No swinking the eye to see through it. Eyes wide open.
The glass is crystall clear and the red dot is the bomb. When you go to the 4x and the cross hairs, it's easy to see. I ordered the mini red dot mount and will try it out (because I have a Docter mini just sitting arond) but I don't think I'll need it.
The 1x is that easy to acquire. The eye reliefe from the Elcan is also much better then the ACOG. Just my 2 cents but I'm happy I have the Elcan.
Link Posted: 9/26/2009 7:54:28 PM EDT
On 1x it is clear enough and low distortion enough I can use my iron sights in a sort of bottom 1/4 co witness.
Link Posted: 9/26/2009 11:09:40 PM EDT
Quoted:
I purchased one last week. Compared to the ACOG there is no comparison. The Elcan has a big, wide, glass to stare through with both eyes open. No swinking the eye to see through it. Eyes wide open.
The glass is crystall clear and the red dot is the bomb. When you go to the 4x and the cross hairs, it's easy to see. I ordered the mini red dot mount and will try it out (because I have a Docter mini just sitting arond) but I don't think I'll need it.
The 1x is that easy to acquire. The eye reliefe from the Elcan is also much better then the ACOG. Just my 2 cents but I'm happy I have the Elcan.


Where did you order the red dot mount from?

Thanks,
~Augee
Link Posted: 9/27/2009 4:23:32 PM EDT
No light on your M4 SOC? That's crazy...
Link Posted: 9/28/2009 2:23:29 AM EDT
Quoted:
No light on your M4 SOC? That's crazy...


I subscribe to the.  "There is a lot of things I'd point a light at that I wouldn't want to point a rifle at."  Mentality.
Link Posted: 9/28/2009 12:51:35 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
No light on your M4 SOC? That's crazy...


I subscribe to the.  "There is a lot of things I'd point a light at that I wouldn't want to point a rifle at."  Mentality.


You don't have to point your light at something to illuminate it, especially indoor. The spill off of bouncing your light off the floor or ceiling is pretty bright. There are TTPs that can help mitigate muzzle sweeps when using a white light on a rifle.
Link Posted: 9/28/2009 2:47:53 PM EDT
I went through Ted at Armament technologies for the mount for the MRD

Ted Milner                     Armament Technology Incorporated |

|3045 Robie Street, Suite 113   E-mail:  [email protected]    |

|Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada   Tel:     (902) 454-6384 ext 221  |

|B3K 4P6                        Fax:     (902) 454-4641          |


I also ordered the bicini covers from them.

In addition, I got the scopecoat to protect it from http://www.scopecoat.com/


Quoted:
Quoted:
I purchased one last week. Compared to the ACOG there is no comparison. The Elcan has a big, wide, glass to stare through with both eyes open. No swinking the eye to see through it. Eyes wide open.
The glass is crystall clear and the red dot is the bomb. When you go to the 4x and the cross hairs, it's easy to see. I ordered the mini red dot mount and will try it out (because I have a Docter mini just sitting arond) but I don't think I'll need it.
The 1x is that easy to acquire. The eye reliefe from the Elcan is also much better then the ACOG. Just my 2 cents but I'm happy I have the Elcan.


Where did you order the red dot mount from?

Thanks,
~Augee


Link Posted: 9/28/2009 2:58:52 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No light on your M4 SOC? That's crazy...


I subscribe to the.  "There is a lot of things I'd point a light at that I wouldn't want to point a rifle at."  Mentality.


You don't have to point your light at something to illuminate it, especially indoor. The spill off of bouncing your light off the floor or ceiling is pretty bright. There are TTPs that can help mitigate muzzle sweeps when using a white light on a rifle.


A flashlight that bright is only going to be used by US forces.

It can be seen and identified from miles away.  Even if they spot your vehicles going into a particular aria they don know what house your in tell you turn on a surefire.

This becomes very bad if your in A-stan and it's a mortar team that spots you.

It will wash out all NODs and kill your natural night vision.

Red filters or the key fob lights are better in most cases.  White is minimal use only and I have a dedicated pen light for that.

I do have a surefire on a mount if I need it on my rifle.  For the last 10 months I haven't been in a situation where I wished I had it.
Link Posted: 9/29/2009 6:04:27 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No light on your M4 SOC? That's crazy...


I subscribe to the.  "There is a lot of things I'd point a light at that I wouldn't want to point a rifle at."  Mentality.


You don't have to point your light at something to illuminate it, especially indoor. The spill off of bouncing your light off the floor or ceiling is pretty bright. There are TTPs that can help mitigate muzzle sweeps when using a white light on a rifle.


A flashlight that bright is only going to be used by US forces.

It can be seen and identified from miles away.  Even if they spot your vehicles going into a particular aria they don know what house your in tell you turn on a surefire.

This becomes very bad if your in A-stan and it's a mortar team that spots you.

It will wash out all NODs and kill your natural night vision.

Red filters or the key fob lights are better in most cases.  White is minimal use only and I have a dedicated pen light for that.

I do have a surefire on a mount if I need it on my rifle.  For the last 10 months I haven't been in a situation where I wished I had it.


You're absolutely right - mission drives the gear.

I was just referencing your statement that you did not like to point your muzzle at things you might not want to shoot.

Link Posted: 9/29/2009 2:41:04 PM EDT
Great review by the OP. Here's my experience with them...I have a three SpecterDR's (two are the SOCOM FDE version the third is the commercial version...same as the OP's) and a S&B Short Dot CQB. I have to say, the SpecterDR's is a great optic (as is the S&B Short Dot). The only two negatives I've found is that they're heavier than say my ACOG's or Aimpoints (but I think about the same as the Aimpoint with a magnifier and all the mounts) and the eye relief isn't as generous as the Short Dot...definitely need to shoot ACOG-like NTCH if you mount a BUIS under the SpecterDR. If you run the DR w/o a BUIS and move it as far back as possible, you can shoot the wrong way (non-NTCH). Also, you can't run a lower third co-wit BUIS due to the eye relief (and that's true on the Short Dot too...it's got a long ER, but not long enough to run a BUIS)

I've used all three in many carbine training courses and treat them no different than any other piece of gear (no babying), mounted/unmounted onto different rifles, etc., etc...they've worked flawlessly. As for S&B vs. SpecterDR...in the ARF.com tradition, I bought BOTH (and then some). Honestly, I'd have to flip a coin, I would have no problems if I was issued either one. The Short Dot does have the ability to run at magnifications between 1.1x and 4x so you can say run it at 2x if you prefer....SpecterDR is 1x or 4x only but I haven't found this to be a negative for me.

Also, I've never had the zero go out (the elevation knob has a lock in case people don't know and the windage "knob" isn't easy to turn since you need a coin or something similar). Zero from 4x to 1x are on with all three units. I only seem to hear second hand "problems" with the SpecterDR's or problems with no backup data so I don't know what to say about that. FWIW, out of the dozen SpecterDR's that I have access to (like ones owned by friends and such), I've never heard of a SINGLE issue.
Link Posted: 9/29/2009 4:47:57 PM EDT
Quoted:
We have a NIB 7.62 AND 5.56 reticle version in stock if anyone needs one give us a call or email. We have them IN Stock .


[email protected]


Link Posted: 9/29/2009 4:57:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2009 5:13:45 PM EDT

Quoted:



Quoted:



















Were not these guys bounced from the ARFCOM?






That's what I thought...
 
Link Posted: 9/29/2009 5:14:33 PM EDT
So does anyone have a photo of the SpecterDR mounted on an FAL?

Just wondering,

EMSflyer
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 2:47:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 10:49:51 AM EDT
So how is it holding up? All I've read from the "experts" is that these are junk, even though that info is usually second hand and contrary to what actual users say.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 12:39:00 PM EDT
I have been very happy with mine. Just bench shooting so far, but I did drop the entire rifle pretty much right on the optic after sighting it in initially at 50 yards. When I took it back out to move back to 100 yards it was still very much on target. Also didn't have a problem hitting a 16x9 steel plate at 300 yards. The drawback that I do see is when you cannot get a good cheekweld/eye relief such as supine or other stances... As others have mentioned the reticle lines are thick, but see above. It also does weigh a ton, 1.3lbs+. Still if I had to do it over again, I'd still buy it.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:44:38 PM EDT
Mine is holding up fine being beat around in MRAPS and so on.  Needs a shooting test.  I'll be trying it out on mt AR-15 and AR-10 once I'm home as well as my FAL once I finish building it.
Link Posted: 1/12/2010 2:07:12 PM EDT
Elcan SpecterDR AAR.

Well It survived Iraq, It got banged around quit a bit and even dropped off the top of the MRAP  But even then the "scuffs" just whipped off of it.

Was able to zero it at a local range in Iraq.  Only took 9 rounds.  (3 sets of 3 shot groups, it was less than 3 moa off POI)



Next up will be here in North Carolina, plenty of freezing cold, rain, mud, etc. to torture this thing with.

I will have to take it easy on the "Throw Levers" as it has been proven time and again in a Larue thread that, if you try they will break.
Link Posted: 1/12/2010 3:54:44 PM EDT
Thanks for the review Soc.  All the other reviews I have read about this optic were from people who had just bought one or dealers.  I am happy to hear that it is GTG.  Thanks for your service
Link Posted: 1/12/2010 4:07:53 PM EDT
Do the screws used on the current build of the scope still rust if you take your gun out in the rain and don't bother to dry it off?
Link Posted: 1/12/2010 11:14:43 PM EDT
Quoted:
Do the screws used on the current build of the scope still rust if you take your gun out in the rain and don't bother to dry it off?


It's hot and dry in Iraq, so I haven't seen any rust.

Right now I'm in North Carolina, humid, cold, wet.  I'll be sure to test that.
Link Posted: 1/17/2010 12:43:28 PM EDT
How does the SpecterDr, when set on 4X, compare with an ACOG?  Eye relief, clarity, speed of target acquisition, ect. ect?
Link Posted: 1/17/2010 8:31:01 PM EDT
Quoted:
How does the SpecterDr, when set on 4X, compare with an ACOG?  Eye relief, clarity, speed of target acquisition, ect. ect?


The SpecterDr is everything the ACOG wishes it could be but with a weight penalty.

Wider FOV

A larger "Sweet spot" for eve relief.

Crystal clear (Both are clear but the DR seems to gather more light.

Speed DR has a wider FOV larger sweet spot and illumination that is independent of external light.

Multiple brightness settings, DOT or Cross hair.

No annoying squint-o-vision unlike the ACOG.

1x power setting.  Built in back up sights.



Only a couple - for DR.  It is twice the weight of even the larger 4x ACOG.  Mount is made by ARMS with no aftermarket mount available.
Link Posted: 1/17/2010 8:55:54 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
How does the SpecterDr, when set on 4X, compare with an ACOG?  Eye relief, clarity, speed of target acquisition, ect. ect?


The SpecterDr is everything the ACOG wishes it could be but with a weight penalty.

Wider FOV

A larger "Sweet spot" for eve relief.

Crystal clear (Both are clear but the DR seems to gather more light.

Speed DR has a wider FOV larger sweet spot and illumination that is independent of external light.

Multiple brightness settings, DOT or Cross hair.

No annoying squint-o-vision unlike the ACOG.

1x power setting.  Built in back up sights.



Only a couple - for DR.  It is twice the weight of even the larger 4x ACOG.  Mount is made by ARMS with no aftermarket mount available.


The ACOG actually has a wider field of view, contrary to impressions.
Link Posted: 1/17/2010 11:00:29 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How does the SpecterDr, when set on 4X, compare with an ACOG?  Eye relief, clarity, speed of target acquisition, ect. ect?


The SpecterDr is everything the ACOG wishes it could be but with a weight penalty.

Wider FOV

A larger "Sweet spot" for eve relief.

Crystal clear (Both are clear but the DR seems to gather more light.

Speed DR has a wider FOV larger sweet spot and illumination that is independent of external light.

Multiple brightness settings, DOT or Cross hair.

No annoying squint-o-vision unlike the ACOG.

1x power setting.  Built in back up sights.



Only a couple - for DR.  It is twice the weight of even the larger 4x ACOG.  Mount is made by ARMS with no aftermarket mount available.


The ACOG actually has a wider field of view, contrary to impressions.


The 3x ACOG has a wider FOV than the DR

I'm assuming a 4x ACOG to get closer to apple vs apple.
Link Posted: 1/18/2010 12:51:56 PM EDT
SOC, what kind of battery life are you getting? I've had mine for 4 months now with 7+ trips to the range on it, not sure on total hours though...
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
An error occurred on the server when processing the URL. Please contact the system administrator.

If you are the system administrator please click here to find out more about this error.