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Posted: 9/23/2003 5:29:21 PM EDT
Please add your personal experience with Winchester .223 ammunition to this thread. When you do, please give information about:
1) Ammunition used
2) Firearm used in
3) Approximate number of rounds fired.

We've covered Q3131A seperately. In this thread, I would like to limit discussion to all .223 loadings. I know this is kind of a broad area, but I don't want to create a zillion posts for every variant.

For more information about this ammunition, please visit the Winchester website.

I am trying to solicit only information about your PERSONAL experience with this ammunition. If you haven't used it, then please don't clutter up the thread. Information about proper functioning (or lack thereof) is obviously the most important, but factors such as the accuracy or other peculiarities you've noticed are informative also. If you have had problems with this ammo which were severe enough to cause you to stop using this ammo, then please describe them.

This post is part of a larger information-gathering effort I'm trying to start about ALL ammunition popular in AR's:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=169729.
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 5:33:42 PM EDT
ammo:  walmart 40 round value pack (winny white box)
rounds fired:~1k
firearm: JT kit on dmps lower A2 20"

i've had no problems with this ammo, and it's what i use when i go shooting.  strangely enough i seem to get my best groups with it.  mind you i haven't tried anything that runs more than about $4.50 per 20.  the barrel is a chromoly 1-9, with this ammo on a good day i'll get consistent 1-2" groups at 100 yards.

Link Posted: 9/23/2003 5:35:31 PM EDT
I guess I get to reply [s]first[/s] second on this one:

USA2232, 45gr JHP through my RRA A4 20". Seems to be pretty accurate - except that I'm a bad shot. No problems except some nasty FTF's which were traced to a bad magazine, not the ammo.
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 6:25:43 PM EDT

ammo: walmart 40 round value pack (winny white box) 55gr flavor.
rounds fired: ~500.
firearm: BM M4gery, full 16" bbl, blunt.

have had no feed, nor fire, nor extract problems whatsoever.  definitely less muzzle flash than Q3131A, somewhat less noise than Q3131A, but feels like fewer FPS than Q3131A as well.  no chrono data taken.  walmart price is OK but on the right day with the right vendor, Q3131A via UPS is roughly the same cost.  and so i shoot some win 223 when plinking, rather than using up my Q3131A (which is probably more effective for SHTF applications).

ar-jedi



Link Posted: 9/24/2003 9:26:25 AM EDT
Never seen a box of Crapchester that would shoot for shit.

Underloaded, and inaccurate. Multiple jams.  Their quality was so bad we even had to stop selling it due to customer complaints.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 11:01:17 AM EDT
I've shot a few hundred round of the Winchester 45gr BTHP, and I have to say that this stuff is VERY accurate, and I have had no reliability issues whatsoever.

I'm also working on a case of 55gr FMJ and it is also accurate (not as accurate as the 45gr)and I haven't experienced any problems. The only problem with this is last time I checked you could get Q3131A for cheaper so why not get the hot stuff.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 11:11:56 AM EDT
Win. 45 grn. HP - 200+, no problems
Win. 64 grn. PowerPoint Plus - 200+, no problems
Win. 55 grn. Q3131 - 1000+, no problems, but the Q3131A is hotter ammo

Mike
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 11:16:38 AM EDT
Obershutz,  maybe you got a bad lot or something because every round I have ever had of that Winchester 40 round value pack has been flawless.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 11:54:09 AM EDT
I have never tried the value packs.  I won't have that crap in my house.  We had to send at least half of their ammo back when we were still selling it because the brass was corroding in boxes that were less than 6 months old.
This goes for almost all calibers, not just .223.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 12:26:38 PM EDT
Winchester Ranger 64 gr. PP
During quals, we'll burn up to 1000 a day for 2-3 weeks, half of that is FA.  All problems have been weapon/mag/operator related.  Main problems are weapon(FTE-i.e. change out colt extractor spring for Wolf.) and when this happens it usually causes a double feed.  Since this is SP ammunition, the exposed lead tip is usually deformed.  The rounds are still usable if you just rip off the lead tip with your fingers.

But again, this is not the ammo's fault.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 12:35:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 3:39:27 AM EDT
I had some problems with late 90's vintage Win Q3131 from a 1:9 Eagle Arms.  Blown primers and failures to extract.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 3:41:57 AM EDT
I've only shot a half dozen or so boxes of the 40 round valu-pac, but it worked fine.

Hoppy
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 6:23:33 AM EDT
I've shot many boxes of WIN USA223R1 thru my Bushmaster 20" and my Eagle Arms 16".
No problems at all, none.

I have shot hundreds of WIN USA9MM through my Sig Sauer P226 and Colt 9mm AR.
No problems at all, none.

~ s0ulzer0
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 6:52:48 AM EDT
I have shot it on and off for 5 years or so.  I pick up what ever I can find cheap and is brass cased.  I never had any problems with it.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 12:00:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 9:18:29 PM EDT
USA223R1,3700 rds
Armalite 16" and 20", both chrome and moly.
DPMS 16" and 20" moly only
Flawless function, inside 3" at 100yds.
All recent mfg, fired June 2003 to date.
Link Posted: 10/4/2003 4:15:25 AM EDT
I have shot aprox 400rds of the 40 rd 55 gr value packs and 200 of same in 50rd packs,the
only minor complaint I have is a white powdery
residue on muzzle break and barrel. Wipes off easily but what is it??
Link Posted: 10/4/2003 8:46:39 PM EDT
I shoot the 45 grn JHP out of my DPMS 20", I would guess in the high hundreds or low thousands of rounds.  The only problem I ever had was with a NIW Colt 20 rounder that would not feed (maybe due to short OAL of the round and the magazine being at the high end of tolerances?).  It is the most accurate round I have found (under 1" at 100 yards), including all the "high end" rounds (Black Hills, etc.).
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 7:14:06 PM EDT
Ammo: 40 rnd wal mart value pack white box
rounds fired: approximately 600-800
rifle: RRA Lower, Model1sales 20 inch upper

Another absolutely no problems whatsoever. Accurate enough for plinking, though I'll second the idea that it is just plinking ammo, from what I've observed. Get it for your buddies to mag dump heh.
Link Posted: 10/7/2003 2:43:58 PM EDT
I just bought two 40 round "super clean" value packs at Wal-mart.No probs with any of the rounds. descent ammo.

80 rounds

bushmaster A2 sporter 16"
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 4:32:27 PM EDT
Winchester White Box 45GR. JHP

16" HBAR 1x9

Functions good, no problems

Accurate @ 100 yards 1.25 in.

80 rounds through rifle
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 5:19:12 PM EDT
I've shot 40/50 round value packs from Wally World, Galyan's, and BPS through a DPMS upper/Oly lower.  Never had a problem.  Love that shiney ammo look.  Curious, though, why some places had 50 round packs, and some only had 40?  The price was same per round, just weird.  

Ghost
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 6:33:57 PM EDT
The value packs from Wally World are very clean and cheap and accurate. What more could you ask for?
I have a new colt 45 ACP 1911 very tight, after 100 rnds with Israeli ammo it gets dirty and fails to go fully into battery.
But with the Winchester I shoot over 400 rnds no problem and the gun is very clean. I have two new DPMS AR-15 shoot over 500 rnds and rifles are still clean and no malfunction of any kind and some great groupings..
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 6:42:18 AM EDT
- 62gr USA223R3
- 200 rds
- DPMS Classic A2 20" 1x9

Good stuff. First try at 62gr in my 1x9. Consistent quality, consistent POI at 100m. Hope to try at 200m next shoot.
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 6:56:43 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
I had some problems with late 90's vintage Win Q3131 from a 1:9 Eagle Arms.  Blown primers and failures to extract.
View Quote


Yes, there were absolutely problems with many of the '99 lots of Q3131.  However, that ammo is M193-spec "5.56", and probably shouldn't be included with the ".223" reviews here, which AFAIK is talking about commercial loads vs. military loads.

-Troy
View Quote


[banghead] [banghead] [banghead]

Can someone [b]PLEASE[/b] tack this to the top!

Q3131 5.56mm: Anything before the 1999 lots is M193 made at Lake City [b]KICKASS AMMO.[/b]
Q3131 5.56mm: 1999 lots you take your chances [b]Maybe good maybe bad.[/b]
Q3131A 5.56mm: Made for Winchester by IMI. M193 ammo
[b]KICKASS AMMO.[/b]

Zhukov's poll is about [b]Winchester USA .223 ammo, not USA 5.56mm ammo![/b]
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 7:23:07 AM EDT
win value pack 55gr fmj=500+
win varmint value pack 45gr hp= 500+
for me the fmj stuff was flawless functioning but less than accurate
 the Varmint 45gr has proven itsself accurate
(under moa)but I did have a round misfeed (the bolt pushed the round from the mag into thebottom of the feedramp forcing the bullet into the case)
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:38:36 PM EDT
about 240 rounds worth of 50 and 55 grain balistic silvertip. no problems. pretty darn good stuff.

about 1000 rounds of the white box plinking fodder without problems. though its not very consistent or accurate.

Link Posted: 12/27/2003 10:27:51 AM EDT
I tried a few hundred rounds of the white box 55gr FMJ. I needed a FMJ to shoot turkeys and not blow them up. It went bang every time, cycled every time, but the accuracy in a proven varminter bushmaster was terrible. I think it was approaching 3 moa. I rolled a box of ammo to judge runout with a dial indicator and there was the problem. Runout on the ojive was severe. I rolled a box of wolf blasting ammo that was much better. The wolf papered just over 1 MOA. I got my turkeys.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 9:44:24 PM EDT
I Run LCM193 and Q3131A exclusively for defense/all purpose ammo. 6 digit round counts-NEVER A FAILURE WITH EITHER.

Plinking/range ammo is usually the "WinWally"
55gr. FMJ USA223R1VP 40 rounders. It's clean cheap,accurate,low pressure,reliable.

1000's of rounds never a failure.
Link Posted: 2/2/2004 3:58:34 PM EDT
I have fired about 1000 rounds of the 55gr. FMJ USA223R Win / White Box 40 rnd Value Pack.
Worst thing I have found.......... having to shop at Wal-Mart. I hate that place.
The 1000 rnds were flawless.

Oly / Car97
Link Posted: 2/6/2004 3:48:53 PM EDT
Rifle 16" mid length RRA upper and bolt, Bushy Lower naked muzzle 700 1000 rounds no problems at all except that gold colored lube they put on the rounds I didnt find it on all of them but the majority of the 40 round value packs 55 grn fmj that I got were covered in turned my fingers, mags, trigger and everything else I turned golden colored
Link Posted: 2/7/2004 7:23:57 PM EDT
Winchester usa2232 varmint 45gr.jhp; 150rds fired. 40rds. crimped like coke bottle tops, I was concerned about using them. Accuracy in my rifle fair for price, [1.25"] Might be good volume varmint round in light/no wind if you get a better lot. I'm going to pass on these though.
Link Posted: 2/7/2004 10:14:10 PM EDT
ammo: walmart 40 round value pack, Q3131(no A), and the R1 stuff
rounds fired:almost 3k
firearm: RRA 16 inch M4gery and 20inch Oly HBAR

Winchester is the stuff I like the best. I try to buy it whenever I can; it is a bit more expensive than others, though. I have never had a bit of problems with any of their ammo and find as accurate as I need it to be.
Link Posted: 2/8/2004 11:08:37 AM EDT
400-500 rounds of the 40 and 50 round 55 grain Winchester white box value packs through my 20" Bushmaster HBAR. Good accuracy, 0 problems.

It doesn't seem that hot, but fine for the range, and good brass to reload.
Link Posted: 2/13/2004 3:13:38 AM EDT
This pertains to Winchester 223 REM 45Gr. JHP Varmint 40 round value packs bought at a local gun range.

Out of 80 rounds, 2 or them the bullet was pushed in to the casing causing a jam during feed. There are 40 more rounds left which I will try in another AR this weekend.

Will not be buying this ammo again.
Link Posted: 2/14/2004 5:35:25 PM EDT
White Box 55 grainers was getting hundred yard 5 shot groups less than quarter size last time out when sighting in scope seriously last time out.

No problems otherwise.  About 500 rounds.

Bought some 40 grainers will try for shits and grins next time.  Don't expect as good as a little light for twist.

1/7 Colt Sporter H-Bar
Link Posted: 2/14/2004 8:50:27 PM EDT
Wal-Mart 40rd. value pack
Colt M16
Several thousand rounds

Absolutely no problems. Accurate and consistent.
Link Posted: 3/29/2004 9:19:36 AM EDT
No problems.
RRA 20" chrome-moly HBAR

I like this stuff because I get 50 rds for  8.49/8.99 at Gander Mtn. (169.80/179.80 per 1000)  which is comparable to anything I can order online (except Wolf).  I usually pickup a few boxes a week to stockpile.  Very convenient.

I have only tried 55 grain
I plan to try the soft points and 62 grain varieties.
Link Posted: 5/2/2004 6:32:26 AM EDT
1) Winchester White Box .223 - 800rnds in 50 rnd boxes purchased at Gander Mountain.
2) Bushmaster 20" HBAR upper on an Essential Arms reciever.
3) ~300.

No problems whatsoever. Chrony'd 2951fps +/- 16.4fps (0.56% stndev).  Brass appears to be good quality.  Accuracy data not reported in my logbook (odd that) but no complaints.
Link Posted: 5/2/2004 6:37:46 AM EDT
1) Malaysian 1980's production 223 (very rare creature these days I'm afraid) 55 gr.
2) Bushmaster HBar 20" upper on Essential Arms Lower - standard A2 configuration
3) 200

Best milsurp ammo ever fired.  Chrony'd 3395 fps +/- 14fps (0.42% stndev).   (hot stuff - maybe too hot).  Accuracy data again not recorded (wierd, thought I was keeping better records) but recall that accuracy was exceptional - at least one cloverleaf pattern is remembered.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 1:53:35 PM EDT
Bushy 16" pre-ban M4 uppper with 300+ rounds of Winnie white-box VP USA223R1VP shot through it.  This is all I've used so far and never had a problem.  However, lately the boxes have changed.  Now the ammo has annealing marks on it, crimped primers, occasional sealed primers, box no longer has "USA" in a circle printed on the front, and it says "MADE IN ISRAEL" on the bottom in lower left corner.  Haven't paid attention to whether these feel hotter or not, but will try to take the chrony out to the range next time and check it out.  This is the cheapest ammo around locally and it is getting harder and harder to find it in stock at Wallmart--have to get there on a Friday before the weekend, otherwise it is all gone by Sunday.  They don't seem to be keeping much in stock
Link Posted: 6/29/2004 7:40:15 AM EDT
I had excellent performance and accuracy with the Walmart 40rnd value packs in my Bushmaster 24" Varmiter.  I shot about 400 rnds of lot VB73 (I think).  The cartridges were annealed and seemed to perform quite well.
However,  I just bought some new ones and they are from a different lot (VB22) and they seem to be a lot more inconsistent in the loading.  There is no annealing marks on the cases.  I had a few that only landed 6 inches from the rifle after extraction (they usually fly 2-3 feet) and had considerable drop at 100 yds.  I'm hoping they all aren't like this, because the other lot was excellent.
- Nealio
Link Posted: 6/30/2004 2:07:43 PM EDT
Have bought more of the stuff than I can keep track of.

45gr HP value packs and grey box 55gr PSP is the best varmint ammo around IMO.


Link Posted: 7/11/2004 7:47:43 AM EDT
Winchester USA2232 45 grain, Walmart white box 40 round value pack.

Rifle is a Bushmaster Varminter with a BSA scope on it.

I've only fired about 60 rounds so far, but the results were quite satisfactory.  I had initially been using Federal AE223 and was getting groupings in the 2" range at 100 yards.  With the USA2232 I didn't have any group over .75", with several too small for me to measure.  Not to shabby for factory ammo.
Link Posted: 7/12/2004 7:20:29 PM EDT
Couple hundred rounds of WWB .223 through my RRA shorty without any problems. Great plinking stuff.
Link Posted: 7/27/2004 8:35:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:33:36 PM EDT
RRA 16" upper, screens @ 10 ft, upper 80s & humid:

USA223R1VP, 55gr FMJ
Lot VB22, made in Israel
"clean" brass (no annealing discoloration)
red primer sealant
"Winchester" headstamp
5 shots:
Avg = 2979.9,  SD = 29.4,  ES = 67.8,  Hi/Lo = 2015.4/2947.7
10 shots:
Avg = 2939.5,  SD = 21.1,  ES = 67.7,  Hi/Lo = 2969.5/2904.8
[5 shot string, then 10 shot string later the same day]


USA2232, 45gr JHP
Lot 07VB52
"clean" brass (no annealing discoloration)
no primer sealant
"Winchester" headstamp
5 shots:
Avg = 3196.9,  SD = 15.3,  ES = 40.9,  Hi/Lo = 3216.7/3175.8
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 12:34:42 PM EDT
I purchased some Winchester USA223R1F, Made in Isreal, Lot VD81. I pulled one of the bullets, the bullets are FMJBT with exposed lead at bottom and are sealed with a black tar like substance. The primers are sealed with a red sealer and are not crimped in. The necks don't have any annealing coloration.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 11:35:08 AM EDT
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=193785

Summary: Winchester White box (40 rd value pack) 45gr JHP was the most accurate out of a 16" 1/9 Olympic Arms barrel - better than some Black Hills 68gr Match (Reman), though the velocity was subpar (avg 3111 fps, high extreme spread).

Total group of 10 was 1.4MOA, best 7 of 10 (disregard my own errors, please) was 0.69MOA - at 200 yards.

No problems.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 7:54:57 AM EDT
All Bushmaster 16" crowned muzzle, approx. 600 rounds, all wally world 40rd. value packs.  No malfunctions of any kind as of yet.  Held groups of 1-2" at 100yds consistantly.  In my opinion, it's not that dirty either.  My only complaint would be standing at the sporting goods counter in wal-mart waiting a half hour to get the rounds. Edited to add:  I've passed the 1k mark and have yet to have a malfunction of any kind.  Aside from 1 20 rd. box of S&B 55gr I tried out of curiosity, the Win. is all I have put through the rifle.  60 45 jhps, the rest were all 55gr fmj.  I backed it up today to 200yds. since I was trying a variable scope for the first time, and was able to hold my shots on a 6" steel plate consistantly.  I'm no super sniper but considering the ghetto scope I used and the $ for the ammo, I was satisfied with the results.
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