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Posted: 9/22/2010 3:57:12 PM EST
Greetings all,

Before we get started on this, please understand I AM NOT trying to start a brand war. I personally own an M6a2 and am very happy
But recently heard something that made me rather upset. I come to my brothers  for answers. Has anyone anywhere ever heard of any problems
with LWRC rifles having their piston spring breaking or the spring cup breaking causing failure of the whole piston system?. I have not !

Please chime in if you have had, or know of any problems with these.
Link Posted: 9/22/2010 4:01:27 PM EST
Never heard anything like that, and as an owner of the rifle, never experienced it either.
Link Posted: 9/22/2010 4:19:50 PM EST
Never heard anything like that as well. Well over 1k rounds with mine.

Check over in the LWRCI forums. Perform a search there, perhaps send an email to LWRCI-Jesse, or just call the office. I'd love to know as well.

Mike
Link Posted: 9/22/2010 5:04:48 PM EST
I have about a little over 3500 collectively through both my 10.5" M6A2 and my 8" PSD and neither one has experienced one failure thus far. I have total confidence in both rifles and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anyone.
Link Posted: 9/22/2010 6:35:13 PM EST
And what's bad a$$ about the LWRCI guys, the will fix it for free and usually pay for shipping on their dime.

MP
Link Posted: 9/22/2010 6:45:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2010 6:48:17 PM EST by LIONHART]
Yes, apparently this was a problem a while back. There was mention of it in SWAT magazine, the article I believe was written by Pat Rogers.
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 5:16:49 AM EST
Zero breakages in either of my LWRC rifles. When you disassemble the piston parts, it's easy to see they are built to last.
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 9:16:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2010 9:16:32 AM EST by skyungjae]
The M6A2 has changed quite a bit over the years.  I know some of the older ones did have problems with carrier tilt, and the carrier key screws would break.  That's all been addressed in the current design.  The new carrier with the cupped anvil is pretty genius from a physics stand point.
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 9:21:52 AM EST
My M6A2 is my duty rifle, and it's never had a problem, in fact I shot it recently completely dry (no oil whatsoever) just to see if it would hang up and I'm happy to say there was not one problem with it feeding/firing/ejecting...

100% confidence in my M6A2.
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 11:31:11 AM EST
The only time I've heard of an LWRC piston spring breaking, the gun just soldiers on and keeps firing and cycling.  IIRC, LWRC has tested their rifles with springs broken in multiple places, and they keep on truckin.
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 12:12:12 PM EST
No problems ever with my m6a2.
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 2:33:18 PM EST
I've got an A3.  Haven't had any problems with it whatsoever.  
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 2:48:57 PM EST
My Dept has 183 of the M6A1. first purchase was in 2006 168 units and 15 more a couple weeks ago.
The 2006 purchase have not had any issues. We shoot roughly 2,000 + / - rounds a year, through the depts training and quals. Those who wish to shoot on their own can pick up a 100 rounds a day in addition to that.

No one has had any issues.
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 3:46:09 PM EST
Ron, good to see you here.  

Has anyone had a problem with a Chevy taken to 10,000 rpm?  If it blows up it must be a piece of crap.  Anything will break if driven hard enough.

LWRC products have been tested by government entities far beyond anything that would be considered normal.  And passed with flying colors.

300LW
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 3:50:14 PM EST
i have owned a M6G for a month.  900 rds through her and zero problems
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 6:23:23 PM EST
Yes.  Piston cup breakage.





Not mine and I have nothing against LWRC.  Upper belongs to a reputable friend and shooter.  2nd failure in 18 months.
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 8:37:03 PM EST



Originally Posted By MartytW:


Yes.  Piston cup breakage.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/LWRC1.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/LWRC2.jpg



Not mine and I have nothing against LWRC.  Upper belongs to a reputable friend and shooter.  2nd failure in 18 months.


That's the spring cup, not the piston cup.  Did it keep running?



 
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 10:04:21 PM EST
that is interesting..i wonder what the round count was for something like that to happen
Link Posted: 9/24/2010 7:02:26 AM EST
Has your friend contacted LWRC with these pic's?
I'm sure they would want to examine the spring cup and want to know particlulars about the rifle, ammo, round count and etc.
Link Posted: 9/24/2010 1:55:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By MartytW:
Yes.  Piston cup breakage.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/LWRC1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/LWRC2.jpg

Not mine and I have nothing against LWRC.  Upper belongs to a reputable friend and shooter.  2nd failure in 18 months.


Could we have some details on the conditions leading to the breakage?
was it used full auto?  number of rounds?  lubrication?   thanks

Link Posted: 9/24/2010 4:09:19 PM EST
Thanks for the correction re spring cup v. piston cup (makes more sense from the pictures)

Shooter indicated second failure of these components in 18 months - so yes, he has been in contact with LWRC as they had to have replaced the parts the first time

I will inquire as to shooting conditions, but IIRC he is shooting 77 gr loads suppressed, low rate of fire, low volume of fire.
Link Posted: 9/24/2010 8:10:21 PM EST
Hi Marty, Hi arfcom folks

I am the aforementioned former owner of the M6A2 that had the failed oprod spring cup.

To be fair LWRC recommends that this be changed every 3000 rounds. I don't have a precise round count but I am pretty sure that the gun saw about that much.

None the less the actual and published MTBF for these parts should have at least A LITTLE wiggle room.


More interesting is this failure that I had with the same rifle only after a couple of months:

http://i.imgur.com/I4w8O.jpg


LWRC was gracious enough to pay for shipping and replaced the GB with a sturdier model used on the PSD model. The burning question, however, is "Why on earth did they not do that in the first place?"

This coupled with its tendency to destroy the rims of brass (I reload) basically lead to my selling the rifle and going back to DI after less than 2 years.  Since I use a suppressor the piston gun was just as dirty and the added weight and failures basically tipped the scales for me.

I am not saying that piston guns suck, they are simply not for me.

My preferred load is 24.5gr RE15, 77gr smk, 2.260" COAL.

The thing that really burns me, more than anything else, is that I feel that I paid a tad over $2k to beta test a rifle. I am sure that the newer LWRC's are much nicer, I was reading about the new features and they seem quite impressive. I just can't help but feel like the poor saps that bought an Apple Quadra 840av the week before the PowerPC architecture was announced.

jcw
Link Posted: 9/24/2010 8:11:34 PM EST
I use MGL and apply it liberally and frequently to my guns.

This is a semi-auto model, 16" M6A2.
Link Posted: 9/25/2010 9:29:46 AM EST
Guess I'll be ordering some oprod spring cups. I know that our dept rifles are well over that round count.
Link Posted: 9/25/2010 2:03:52 PM EST
JC,

If I can ask, Do you remember the ser # range of the riflr you had?. If so, maybe we could  keep track of some of the problems noted by some members.



T.
Link Posted: 9/25/2010 2:53:27 PM EST
Term:

I should have the paperwork for it in my safe, I'll go and have a shufti next time I run upstairs (which should be soon as I have about 300 .458 SOCOM cases to resize). If I find the papers I'll give you a sanitized SN (I'll knock out the last 2 digits).

-jcw
Link Posted: 9/25/2010 2:55:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By peanut1705:
Guess I'll be ordering some oprod spring cups. I know that our dept rifles are well over that round count.


Get springs, as well.

If you notice the springs forward end getting peened or unwinding I would replace it then and there. I would make inspecting it part of regular cleaning/maintenance.
Link Posted: 9/25/2010 3:04:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By jcwaters:
Originally Posted By peanut1705:
Guess I'll be ordering some oprod spring cups. I know that our dept rifles are well over that round count.


Get springs, as well.

If you notice the springs forward end getting peened or unwinding I would replace it then and there. I would make inspecting it part of regular cleaning/maintenance.


I was thinking springs also, just didn't type it.

Inspections are part of the cleaning/maintenance..

Look for peening and unwinding, got it.

Thanks JC.

Link Posted: 9/25/2010 4:06:31 PM EST
sn: 01-15xx
Link Posted: 9/25/2010 4:07:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2010 5:10:23 PM EST by jcwaters]
Sure thing peanut!

Since you appear to use these in a professional capacity thanks and keep up the good work!

EDIT: DLaw seems to have one in a professional capacity, got my forum names mixed up, whoops
Link Posted: 9/25/2010 8:50:59 PM EST
Thanks JC!!!
Link Posted: 9/26/2010 7:49:45 PM EST
No problems with mine.
Link Posted: 9/27/2010 4:59:54 PM EST
JC

I was noticing, and my m6 is in the same ser # range as yours. No probs yet, but i havent reached the 3000 round mark yet.
Ill keep you guys posted.


T.
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