AR15 Pistol SHORT FAQ : Please feel free to add comments and questions!

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - AR15 Pistol SHORT FAQ : Please feel free to add comments and questions! (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 1/27/2006 1:48:07 PM EDT

Folks
I opened my mouth a little too large, & offered to write a FAQ. I'm building a straight-pull, so there's a WHOLE lot I don't know. Below is my effort - don't take it as gospel.
Gig 'em,
backbencher

The Much-Shortened AR Pistol FAQ</center id=center>

Q: I'm tired of my AR-15 rifle and I want to build a pistol out of it. Can I do that?

A: Short answer? NO, you may NOT.

Long Answer: If you pay $200 to BATFE, fill out all the paperwork, & have it signed by your local chief of law enforcement (LEO), you may apply to turn your rifle into a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR). We'll point out here that in 2006, new pistol receivers (stripped, virgin) transferred as a firearm are running in the $100 range. If you're already going the SBR route, no problem. If you just want a pistol, it's cheaper & much, much easier to buy a pistol receiver & build off that. SBR folks can go to:

Link

for more SBR discussions.

Q: Oh, I don't want an SBR then, I just want a pistol.
A: Ok, you can build one from a stripped virgin receiver transferred to you as a pistol, or you can just buy a complete pistol.

Q: Wait a minute, I thought the Assault Weapons Ban banned AR-15 pistols?
A: Happily, the Assault Weapons Ban has expired and is no longer in effect.

Q: What about in the People's Republic of (name of blue state)?
A: Go to the Hometown forum:

Link

Q: Ok, they're legal in my state, I just want to buy a pistol.
A: Quite a few folks build AR-15 based pistols. Here are a few websites to check out:

Bushmaster Carbon15

Oly Arms OA Models

DPMS

And a not quite AR:
Kel-Tec

Q: Those cost too much/they're not exactly what I want/I'd rather build my own:
A: Then you need a virgin receiver.

Q: What's a virgin receiver?
A: A virgin receiver is one that has never been deflowered, of course :) Ie, it has never been built into a rifle. It was shipped to your FFL as a stripped receiver, and transferred to you on the yellow form as a pistol or stripped receiver.

link

Q: Ok, I'm gonna buy my virgin receiver next week from my buddy FFL, but I wanna get a barrel today at the gunshow, say, one of these real nice 7" ones that are on sale.
A: If you already have an AR-15 rifle at home, even a stripped rifle receiver, DON'T buy a pistol barrel!

Q: Why not? They're on sale. This barrel will be the perfect addition to my AR-15 family... Oh.
A: Yep, by possessing a pistol length (under 16") barrel without owning a pistol receiver, while owning a rifle receiver, you are in possession of a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) and are enrolling in the Federal Golf Improvement Progam - say, for like 10 years.

Q: Well, it would get me away from my future ex-wife.
A: Yes, but when you got out of prison you wouldn't be able to own any AR's.

Q: But I wasn't gonna put the pistol barrel on my rifle!
A: But without owning a pistol receiver, just the mere possesion of the parts and a compatible rifle receiver proves your intent to assemble a Short Barrel Rifle without paying the $200 tax, and you'll get the silver hookup.

Q: Nobody's gone to jail for this.
A: Oh, yes, they have:

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=170

link to Quarterbores Site

Q: Ok, I won't buy the barrel today. But I'm gonna turn this pistol into a rifle someday, so I'll go ahead & pick up this buttstock at the show.
A: As long as that's a spare part for your other AR-15 rifles, you're ok. But what if you don't have any AR-15 rifles?

Q: Ok, suppose I don't have any other AR-15 rifles. I'm gonna build my AR pistol into a rifle someday, so I need this buttstock I just bought. I'm getting my virgin receiver transferred to me as a pistol next week, and then at the next gun show, I'm gonna pick up a 7" pistol barrel. Oh.
A: Yep, when you buy that 7" pistol barrel, you are in possession of a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR). Because you already have a buttstock, and you don't have any other rifles that buttstock fits on - it only fits your 7" barreled pistol.

Q: This is getting ridiculous.
A: I agree, but it's been the law since the 1930's, so there's no excuse to break it.

Q: Wait a minute. You said I could build a rifle from my pistol? But I can't build a pistol from a rifle?
A: Correct.

Q: What if I built it as a pistol first, then a rifle?
A: That's the only exception. If you build a pistol from a virgin receiver first, take some pictures and date them. Hang on to them. Then build your rifle. If you ever want to turn it back into a pistol, take the stock off FIRST, then put the pistol barrel back on.

Q: Who else jumps through these ridiculous hoops?
A: Thomson/Center Contender owners. We have them to thank that we can even switch back and forth:

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=169

another link to Quaterbores Site

Step away from AR-15s for a minute, and let's pretend you have a single shot T/C Contender with a 10" barrel, in say, .223. It's LOUD. But you want to nail some jackrabbits out there, so you need a little more accuracy and a little less drop.

Q: A longer barrel?
A: Yes, and in this case, let's say you want a shoulder stock. So you buy a 16" T/C barrel, and you buy the shoulder stock attachment. So you take the 10" barrel off FIRST, then you install the 16" barrel and shoulder stock. When you're done with jackrabbits and want your 10" barrel back on, you take the shoulder stock off FIRST and then swap out the barrels.

Q: So I can do the same thing with ARs?
A: Yes. Just never never NEVER build a pistol out of a rifle receiver.

Q: Ok, I won't do that. I've got my virgin receiver. I've got my parts kit. How long should my barrel be?
A: Personal preference. Keep in mind short barrels are LOUD. Long barrels are HEAVY. 16" and longer barrels can be used on a pistol or your rifle.

Q: I want the longest possible sight radius for my pistol. Can I have the front sight base at the very front of the barrel?
A: Short answer: No. You won't have sufficient gas pressure to operate the action.
Long answer: You could go with a mid-barrel gas system like on a Bushmaster Disapator:

link to Bushmaster

Or you could use a full length free float tube & mount your sight on that.

Q: Well how far forward CAN I have my front sight base/gas tap?
A: If you go as close as 3" to the muzzle, you'll need a larger gas port.

http://www.ar15barrels.com/prod/gas-systems.shtml

Q: Wait a minute. Aren't pistol caliber AR's blowback? I don't need no stinkin' gas port.
A: Then you're off to the Pistol Caliber forum:

link

Q: Wait a minute. I don't have a stock on this pistol, but the buffer tube is longer than my barrel. This looks silly, and doesn't the BATFE consider the rifle buffer tube a stock?
A: Yes, it can look silly, but no, the BATFE doesn't consider any length buffer tube a shoulder stock. If you're building a rifle later, you can save money by using the carbine or rifle buffer tube. It will be easier to make your gun run, as well.

link

Q: Short buffer tubes don't run as well as longer ones?
A: It's more difficult the shorter you go. Model 1 Sales used to have a really short one, but they've discontinued it - it was too much trouble. This is their replacement:

link to M1S

Links to tacked buffer tube threads:

link1

link2

Q: Who makes complete uppers for pistols?
A: Check out this tacked thread:

link

Q: I want one of those cool side operating handle AR uppers that doesn't use a buffer tube.
A: Olympic Arms is your friend - for a price:

Oly Arms

Q: How do I put all these pieces together?
A: You go to the Build It Yourself forum:

link

Q: Can I put a forward vertical grip on the forend of my pistol?
A: Short answer: No. Apparently BATFE doesn't like this, and the case law is unclear.
Long answer: You can pay $200 tax & jump through the AOW hoops, similar to Class 3. Or you can choose to be a test case - don't lose!

link to Quarterbore

link to sturmgewehr

Arfcom link

Q: Can I have a fully automatic AR pistol?
A: Back to the Class 3 forum with you:

M16 forum

Q: Can I put a silencer on my AR pistol?
A: Off to the Class 3 forum!

M16 forum

Q: I'm gonna build a rifle, but I want to preserve the "pistolness" of my virgin receiver before I deflower it by building my rifle. What's the cheapest way to do that?
A: Buy a used barrel cheap on the Equipment Exchange forum and saw it off to whatever length you desire. If you cut it less than 16" after purchasing your virgin receiver, either have another AR-15 rifle in the house or don't possess a buttstock. You now have a straight-pull bolt action AR pistol. Just remember to not vent the gas towards your face if you keep the front sight block on the barrel.

link

Q: How do you know so much?
A: I don't - I'm a complete newbie who complained about the length of the Pistol Information thread:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=122&t=200876]link

I'm still building that straight-pull pistol as I write this!

(1st edit 1/27/06 16:52 - 5 min after posting...)
(2nd edit 1/2706 4pm Pacific Time) Noner
(3rd edit 1/28/06 13:14 CST) backbencher - minor grammaticallistic error :)
(4th edit 1/30/06 18:32 CST) backbencher - free float tube/front sight addition
(5th edit 2/2/06 10:13 CST) backbencher - 1st Quarterbore link fix, more to come
(6th edit, 2/2/06 10:28 CST) backbencher - more Quarterbore, links fixed
(7th edit, 2/16/06, 00:14 CST) backbencher - Gas port location from Randall Rausch

Posted: 1/30/2006 4:13:22 AM EDT

[#1]

Q: I want the longest possible sight radius for my pistol. Can I have the front sight base at the very front of the barrel?
A: Short answer: No. You won't have sufficient gas pressure to operate the action.
Long answer: You could go with a mid-barrel gas system like on a Bushmaster Disapator:

link to Bushmaster

Q: Well how far forward CAN I have my front sight base/gas tap?
A: If you go as close as 2" to the muzzle, you'll need a larger gas port.

.

you could always use a longer freefloat tube with a forearm mounted front sight.

you could also defeat the purpose of an "ar pistol" and use a longer upper like a lot of others do, i dont see the point but they do.

Posted: 1/31/2006 7:45:58 PM EDT

[#2]

Note - Quarterbore links are broken - will revise as I have time.

Gig 'em,

backbencher

Posted: 4/14/2006 7:38:03 PM EDT

[#3]

I have a question about the weight of the pistol in a link the Quarterbore's site:
does this mean the Ar pistol must be 50 onces at least to be legal or is that just a category or classification aid?

Semiautomatic assault weapon {in the context of a pistol}

(c) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--

(1) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of
the pistol grip,

(2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash
suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer,

(3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm
with the nontrigger hand without being burned,

(4) A manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is
unloaded, and
(5) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm;

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182&highlight=weight

I have a CMMG lower and model 1 sales a3 upper with 7.5" barrel just waiting to get them and have fun.

Posted: 4/15/2006 2:21:03 PM EDT

[#4]

Weight is no longer an issue. (since the ban ended)

Posted: 4/15/2006 5:01:03 PM EDT

[#5]

thanks

Posted: 6/14/2006 8:36:11 AM EDT

[#6]

What is overal length of an AR pistol with a 12" barrel?

Posted: 6/15/2006 6:50:24 PM EDT

[#7]

What is the optimal size for the gas hole with a straight gas tube, CAR buffer and tube, and a 7-7.5 inch barrel??

My upper (used) should be on its way!

Posted: 6/26/2006 6:23:46 PM EDT

[#8]

TonsofFun,

Depends on the length of your buffer tube : )

Gig 'em,

backbencher

Posted: 6/26/2006 6:28:59 PM EDT

[#9]

sobrbiker,

It depends on where your gas tap is on your bbl:

http://www.ar15barrels.com/prod/gas-systems.shtml

Please note - it's a pain in the rear to plug up a gas port in the wrong spot - but you can always make a smaller one bigger.

Gig 'em,

backbencher

Posted: 6/26/2006 7:28:21 PM EDT

[#10]

Interesting link BB,
My port is approx 3" from muzzle, so hopefully my opening it to .093 will help since I have a shorter dwell time.

Next question-

Do I ditch the pigtail tube I have (came with upper I bought) and go with a straight tube?

Posted: 7/5/2006 9:06:47 AM EDT

[#11]

sobr,

Haven't gotten around to using gas operation yet, so you'd best post somewhere else in this forum w/ that question.

FARMERS FIGHT!

backbencher

Posted: 7/5/2006 2:58:17 PM EDT

[#12]

Have done,

Here's the info I got
From the AR15 Pistol forum
and
From the Troubleshooting forum

Posted: 7/6/2006 4:13:48 AM EDT

[#13]

Links updated in first post for the M-16 forum

Posted: 7/17/2006 6:26:51 AM EDT

[#14]

so as soon as you put a collapasable stock on an ar pistol it becomes as sbr. correct??

thanks
-blue

Posted: 7/21/2006 1:51:13 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
so as soon as you put a collapasable stock on an ar pistol it becomes as sbr. correct??

thanks
-blue

I had this question as well. My guess is "yes".

Posted: 7/26/2006 7:17:50 PM EDT

[#16]

What about a STRAP hanging at the front part of the forearm of an AR pistol, it doesn't resemble nor is it called a "GRIP", it's a strap - something like this:

Posted: 8/30/2006 7:31:43 AM EDT

[#17]

ok is there any regulations on how long a barrel can be when attached to a pistol?

Posted: 9/1/2006 5:45:45 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
ok is there any regulations on how long a barrel can be when attached to a pistol?

No,
You can make the barrel as long (or short) as you want.

But once the barrel is over 16" you can legally add a stock which would make it a rifle.

Posted: 9/7/2006 7:54:20 AM EDT

[#19]

So if i'm reading this correctly then i can BUY a pistol and then buy a rifle upper and a stock and convert it back and forth, but not BUY a rifle and do the opposite to create a pistol?

gunnmen01

Posted: 10/11/2006 2:52:45 PM EDT

[#20]

A question for any law "experts" out there...

How will the proposed rule (see the link below) on the revised definition of what a pistol is, affect AR-15 pistols, specifically centered around the Thompson Center ruling and being able to configure your AR pistol as a Rifle, then change back again?

Notices of Proposed Rulemakings

Notice No. 7P - Machine Guns, Destructive Devices, and Certain Other Firearms; Amended Definition of "Pistol" (Note the comment period is over... so they will take whatever comments they received as of May 9, 2005 and create new ATF "law"... but at this point, only God knows how long it will take for them to create this new rule and when it will take effect)

www.atf.gov/forms/notices/05-6932.pdf

Posted: 10/11/2006 3:27:21 PM EDT

[#21]

Another question...

What about all these AR pistols with lowers marked "pistol only" or other minor variations... is that a state thing or are manufacturers doing that to protect themselves and/or their customers?

Posted: 10/19/2006 7:45:10 AM EDT

[#22]

I looked under california and can't find if the ar pistol is legal in CA. if it is what is the process of myself making a CA legal pistol. Thanks for all the help.

Posted: 11/7/2006 7:16:38 AM EDT

[#23]

One part that I really grabbed a hold of from BigBore's letter is the last paragraph about possessing a buttstock which could be readily installed COULD constitute a SBR. Like many of us, I have extra parts all over and how could I ever prove that I couldn't attach a spare buttstock? I guess I'll have to either go with a Gunsmoke buffer or make sure all of my spare stocks are attached to other receivers.

I'm sorry if this is a dupe but I did try to search for other opinions on this. Thanks in advance.

Posted: 1/4/2007 9:09:22 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I looked under california and can't find if the ar pistol is legal in CA. if it is what is the process of myself making a CA legal pistol. Thanks for all the help.

An AR pistol is classified as an "Assault Weapon" in California. No chance of it being legal.

Posted: 2/14/2007 1:20:48 PM EDT

[#25]

I've been searching, couldn't find, so I'm asking:

What's the velocity outta the short barrels?

Details would be nice, like for various barrel lengths from 7 to 12 inches, with bullet weights from 40 to 62 grains.

Thanks.

Posted: 4/14/2007 10:02:33 PM EDT

[#26]

Okay, here's a hypothetical question: it's clear that having a short barreled upper not attached to a lower receiver is a no-no when you also have a rifle lower, but what if you have a pistol upper and lower, and a rifle upper and lower, but none of them are attached? I'm thinking about picking up a pistol lower so I can have a short barrel for 6-12 months until I move out west to a SBR friendly state, but when I drive to go shooting I like to have my upper in the trunk and the lower in the back seat in case I happen to get pulled over or something. If I had a pistol and they were all broken down together, would I be okay, or in trouble?

Posted: 4/16/2007 1:24:35 PM EDT

[#27]

Okay,

I picked up a lnew, stripped ower receiver from my ffl today. It is unbuilt and he transferred it to me as a pistol. I have a sales receipt that states this. Am I good to go for my pistol build or do I still need a letter from the manufacturer? Thanks for any input

Edit* I have answered my own question. I bought an Ameetec Arms receiver and they cannot or will not tell me if it left their shop unbuilt by the serial number. That being the case, even though I had it transferred to me by my ffl as a virgin unbuilt pistol receiver, I cannot build it as a pistol because Ameetec will not verify that it left them unbuilt. They claim they have no way of knowing. No pistol for me I guess

Posted: 5/3/2007 10:44:03 AM EDT

[#28]

height=8

I cannot build it as a pistol because Ameetec will not verify that it left them unbuilt. They claim they have no way of knowing...

IF it is 'the law' that we should have this documentation, shouldn't the manufacturer be compelled by law to provide this?

Experiencing a similar problem with Double Star. Looks like I might end up having to pawn that mess and buy one from someone that provides this documentation, like Stag.

Posted: 5/4/2007 5:10:06 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Okay,

I picked up a lnew, stripped ower receiver from my ffl today. It is unbuilt and he transferred it to me as a pistol. I have a sales receipt that states this. Am I good to go for my pistol build or do I still need a letter from the manufacturer? Thanks for any input

Edit* I have answered my own question. I bought an Ameetec Arms receiver and they cannot or will not tell me if it left their shop unbuilt by the serial number. That being the case, even though I had it transferred to me by my ffl as a virgin unbuilt pistol receiver, I cannot build it as a pistol because Ameetec will not verify that it left them unbuilt. They claim they have no way of knowing. No pistol for me I guess

If you are sure it is a new lower, who cares if you don't have a letter from Ameetec. The law does not require this letter. It requires the first build be from a virgin lower, which you have. Hypothetically, if you were to be charged with something they would have to have proof that the lower was a rifle FIRST. Most people who build pistol do not have the letter you want. Good luck.

Posted: 5/15/2007 12:24:52 PM EDT

[#30]

Hell yeah. Just what I was looking for.

I didn't know you could go back and forth from pistol to rifle and back! Nor did i know you could put a barrel longer than 16" on a pistol. That's what I get for listening to shit for brains arm chair commandos bullshitters at gunshops

. I knew in the back of my mind they didnt know what they were taking about. I see a Virgin lower in my future

. thanks for taking the time to put this short answer to pistol questions together. now getting a FFL to do this. Most will think I am up to something illegal. I had one FFL tell me it was illegal for him to transfer me a stripped AR15 lower and he was a gunsmith.

Posted: 5/30/2007 9:14:45 AM EDT

[#31]

I have heard a lot of different bits and pieces of information - including phone conversations with the ATF - which produce a, perhaps, conflicting account of what constitutes AR pistol eligibility in the case of a virgin receiver.

Again, in the case of a virgin receiver, I have heard that...

1) What really matters is what is entered into the bound-books of the transferring FFL and the manufacturer - whether it has been built into anything or not is besides the point.

2) What really matters is not what it is entered as into any bound-book, just that the receiver has never yet been assembled into a rifle.

So my question is this:

Can anyone provide me a link to whatever law(s), administrative statements from the ATF, or case law, which would help to clarify this issue?

I've received a lot of advice from a bunch of people and, though I trust them, I would rather see something official and in writing which - should I ever be approached by an ATF agent - would show standing for the legality of building my receivers into a pistol.

Thank you,

_MaH

ETA: I just found this:

www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter7.txt

Nice to see the ATF stating that a virgin receiver, never built into a rifle, can be built into a handgun.

So where does the bound-book stuff come in if at all?

Found what I'm looking for - the letter to Big-Bore was a lot more recent than the above link and since it didn't mention bound-books - but did mention the 4473's - I feel much more confident now

Now I just gotta convince the manufacturer to send me that "never built" letter... I'll read up more on what my options are if they won't issue it.

_MaH

Posted: 8/21/2007 9:54:08 PM EDT

[#32]

Hi. The problem with making a pistol from an AR lower is also the weight. The Kel Tec and BushMaster pistols are light carbon frame units under 3.5 pounds with short or no buffer tube where you probably dont want one .. I want to get a kelTec but i dont know if they shoot as well as the Bush 21S unit i have. All this stuff is soon to be banned i think...

Posted: 12/13/2007 9:29:54 AM EDT

[#33]

Ok, I've read the FAQ and would like some help clarifying a few things.

I'm getting a stripped lower soon, and I would like to "preserve its pistolness," even though I'm gonna build a rifle out of it. My ffl agreed to log it out as a pistol. Now, I'd like to make sure this set of steps will work legally. I already have a 16" DPMS AR-15 rifle.

1) get the lower, install in the parts kit, and only the buffer tube, without ever installing the actual stock.
2) install the full size upper from my preexisting rifle, making it a pistol with a 16" barrel
3) take pictures/documentation/whatever
4) then do whatever I want, including put on a stock.

Does installing a 16" barrel upper, but without a shoulder stock, count as building a pistol? Will this plan get me a dual pistol/rifle receiver, or will it land someone a nice stay in federal prison?

Posted: 1/6/2008 5:03:08 PM EDT

[#34]

I was looking for info on balistics with the 7 in as compared to a 10.5 in out to 150yards. If i used a 7 inch with a stock, with a fore handle, on a bench, would it be a grouping of larger than two inches if u cancle out user error Plus or minus an aimpoint optic.

Posted: 1/7/2008 9:55:07 PM EDT

[#35]

Hi, does anyone know if we can build an AR-15 pistol in California? I know we can build an AR-15 but with a fixed mag. or a few other things to make it legal. If it's legal to own an AR-15 pistol, what are some brands to get?

Posted: 1/11/2008 3:13:44 PM EDT

[#36]

I have a touchy question as follows:
I have a friend who has one ar15 rifle, one ar lower (stripped) and another lower with the lower kit already installed and a M4 buttstock also attached.
Ok so far so good. He is planning to buy a pistol receiver at the next gun show and then order a upper pistol kit from a well known retailer.

Is the possesion of two receivers without any uppers as well as a complete rifle with its respective lower and buying a pistol receiver and then a pistol upper will send out alarms and red flags resulting in a midnite visit form the good boys from the Alphabet organization?

Posted: 1/11/2008 9:43:23 PM EDT

[#37]

No, but get the pistol lower before the pistol upper, so it doesn't look like constructive possesion of an SBR.

Posted: 2/19/2008 4:53:02 PM EDT

[#38]

see below

Posted: 3/1/2008 12:13:09 PM EDT

[#39]

Hello,
A lower receiver less buttstock http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_parts_lower_receivers.asp#ALOWWOSTK can be purchased and registered as a pistol receiver with ATF. None of the lower receivers we sell has ever been built into a complete rifle so we do not certify that.
Thank you,

Jim Eden
Technical Support
Bushmaster Firearms International, LLC
Office: 1-800-883-6229 ext. 277
Fax: 207-892-8068

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Posted At: Friday, February 08, 2008 5:21 PM
Posted To: Tech Support Email
Conversation: XM-15 pistol
Subject: XM-15 pistol

Do you sell the Bushmaster XM15-E2S Lower Receiver Assembly with Pistol Grip with a certificate of virginity from the manufacturer, which states you never assembled the receiver as a rifle before you ship it to my FFL dealer? I know that you sell a Carbon 15 pistol, I had a Carbon 15 rifle before and it did not work. It had fail to feed, fail to fire, and double fires, so I don't have any faith in it. I now have a Bushmaster XM15-E2S Shorty AK and love it, I would like to build a pistol out of your receiver. I would be thankful for any info you could tell me.

Thanks
Mark Sechler

Copy of email I sent to Bushmaster. My FFL will sell it to me as a pistol, so I get in my hands 1st, then order the upper from Model1. Then put it all together.

I'll be legal, right?

Posted: 3/31/2008 12:08:46 PM EDT

[#40]

OK, I didn't see it covered in the FAQ, so I'll ask:

Are there any issues with having multiple short uppers (for pistols) if you just have one pistol lower? Or should you have a "mate" for each short upper?

I'm looking at getting a pistol receiver transferred to me in the next few weeks. I'd then get my short/pistol upper, but at some point down the road, I'd like to get a Noveske Diplomat.

Posted: 4/1/2008 6:24:57 PM EDT

[#41]

height=8

Quoted:
Do you sell the Bushmaster XM15-E2S Lower Receiver Assembly with Pistol Grip with a certificate of virginity from the manufacturer, which states you never assembled the receiver as a rifle before you ship it to my FFL dealer? I know that you sell a Carbon 15 pistol, I had a Carbon 15 rifle before and it did not work. It had fail to feed, fail to fire, and double fires, so I don't have any faith in it. I now have a Bushmaster XM15-E2S Shorty AK and love it, I would like to build a pistol out of your receiver. I would be thankful for any info you could tell me.

Thanks
Mark Sechler

Copy of email I sent to Bushmaster. My FFL will sell it to me as a pistol, so I get in my hands 1st, then order the upper from Model1. Then put it all together.

I'll be legal, right?

That is so funny, I had called a guy in Bushmaster's tech support just yesterday to ask this very same thing.

I would like an answer to this one as well. I am planning on building two lowers (one pistol, one for a Varmint rifle) both are going to be identical, except for the stock. Then turn around and buy a pre-built pistol upper, and a 20" Bushmaster Predator Upper for the rifle.

I know in what order I need to buy and build things, I would just like to make sure I can enjoy my pistol, and my rifle. Instead of "Bubba" enjoying me!

So, can I just buy two virgin rifle receivers and just build a pistol out of one? Or must it be registered as a pistol from the word go?

Posted: 4/1/2008 11:31:52 PM EDT

[#42]

height=8
Quoted:
That is so funny, I had called a guy in Bushmaster's tech support just yesterday to ask this very same thing.

I would like an answer to this one as well. I am planning on building two lowers (one pistol, one for a Varmint rifle) both are going to be identical, except for the stock. Then turn around and buy a pre-built pistol upper, and a 20" Bushmaster Predator Upper for the rifle.

I know in what order I need to buy and build things, I would just like to make sure I can enjoy my pistol, and my rifle. Instead of "Bubba" enjoying me!

So, can I just buy two virgin rifle receivers and just build a pistol out of one? Or must it be registered as a pistol from the word go?

height=8
Quoted:
Q: Wait a minute. You said I could build a rifle from my pistol? But I can't build a pistol from a rifle?
A: Correct.

Q: What if I built it as a pistol first, then a rifle?
A: That's the only exception. If you build a pistol from a virgin receiver first, take some pictures and date them. Hang on to them. Then build your rifle. If you ever want to turn it back into a pistol, take the stock off FIRST, then put the pistol barrel back on.

Or could I just order both of them as pistol receivers, and just build a rifle out of one?

Nevermind, I got a hold of a local class 3 dealer, he answered my questions. Unfortunately, his store is out of state, so I must still find a FFL holder to receive my receiver.. NO PUN

Posted: 5/4/2008 1:00:46 PM EDT

[#43]

I don't know much about all of this, i'm just learning, but I emailed RockRiver about building a pistol, and asked the question about converting it to a rifle at a later point of time. And they said NO, absolutely not. Once a pistol, Always a pistol. Is RockRiver Arms incorrect?

Posted: 5/16/2008 7:36:50 AM EDT

[#44]

So having read this FAQ and many other posts regarding legality of building a pistol, I still have a question.

I currently have a complete 16" CAR rifle and just got 3 more lowers yesterday - one of them was registered as a pistol by the FFL.

The other 2 receivers will be rifle builds - a SPR and possibly a future SBR.

If I build the SPR first and have two complete rifles, will I get in trouble for having a short barreled upper (7.5") because I have the ability to put it on the rifle lowers, even though it would be attached to the registered pistol lower with buffer tube?

What happens when I get my SBR tax stamp and I build that - I will then have two short barreled uppers capable of being mated with rifle lowers, even though all the weapons will be fully assembled at all times apart from cleaning.

Anyone see a problem with this?

Posted: 5/16/2008 6:04:58 PM EDT

[#45]

As long as you have a legal use for the upper, your pistol
lower in this case, you should be good to go. Just don't have
any 'extra' short uppers lying around with unfinished lowers
that aren't pistol or SBR. Hope this clears things up for you.

Posted: 5/16/2008 6:49:11 PM EDT

[#46]

So if I have a couple stripped rifle lowers lying around, as well as a couple (stripped or complete) pistol lowers lying around, could I have one or two [complete] shorty uppers laying around?

Posted: 7/11/2008 4:33:11 AM EDT

[#47]

Ok, I've read a the FAQ's here, and I just want to make sure I'm clear on everything as I'm looking to build a shorty.

1. I cannot use a pre-existing AR15's lower on a different upper if it makes a SBR.

2. If I want to use a rifle type lower for a SBR, it must be virgin, and I must fill out the form requesting permission to build and register a firearm, as well pay a $200 tax.

Is this all correct?

Posted: 7/28/2008 9:28:28 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Ok, I've read the FAQ and would like some help clarifying a few things.

I'm getting a stripped lower soon, and I would like to "preserve its pistolness," even though I'm gonna build a rifle out of it. My ffl agreed to log it out as a pistol. Now, I'd like to make sure this set of steps will work legally. I already have a 16" DPMS AR-15 rifle.

1) get the lower, install in the parts kit, and only the buffer tube, without ever installing the actual stock.
2) install the full size upper from my preexisting rifle, making it a pistol with a 16" barrel
3) take pictures/documentation/whatever
4) then do whatever I want, including put on a stock.

Does installing a 16" barrel upper, but without a shoulder stock, count as building a pistol? Will this plan get me a dual pistol/rifle receiver, or will it land someone a nice stay in federal prison?

Did this get answered or did I miss it?

I have the same question.

Thanks.

Lacey

Posted: 7/28/2008 11:00:54 AM EDT

[#49]

Pistols can have 16"+ bbls, so you should be good to go.

That said, I am by no means the world's authority on AR pistols, as I'm just building my first one myself, so you should probably wait for confirmation from someone else.

Just me being paranoid, I would probably document the stripped [pistol lower] lower, then installation of LPK, then buffer tube, then upper, all on the same day as the FFL transfer.

And make sure the date/time stamp on my camera was working.....

But again, that's just paranoid ol' me.

Posted: 7/28/2008 11:01:55 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
So if I have a couple stripped rifle lowers lying around, as well as a couple (stripped or complete) pistol lowers lying around, could I have one or two [complete] shorty uppers laying around?

And by "a couple" rifle lowers, I mean five or six.

ETA: I guess what I'm asking is: If I have one proper pistol lower for every one shorty upper, am I good-to-go against the threat of constructive possession?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - AR15 Pistol SHORT FAQ : Please feel free to add comments and questions! (Page 1 of 3)

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