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Posted: 3/30/2011 9:51:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2011 10:00:19 AM EDT by kentucky_smith]
Help me make up my mind, I'm torn between converting a spare upper to either a 6.5/264LBC or a .300 BLK.  Possible future use as a deer gun (although I do that just fine with a 7-08 and a 30-30).

The Grendel seems more practical for all applications, the 300BLK seems like a good AR alternative to x39, it uses a standerd .223 brass and bolt,  and easy to supress/sbr.    I could share suppressor between this and my 9mm upper.  

Who's making barrels for these?  I've got down CMMG, Delta Company, Les Baer.  Who else???
Link Posted: 3/30/2011 11:12:11 AM EDT
Wilson Combat, Black Hole Weaponry, Umlaut Industries, etc etc.  Given whitetail deer hunting in relatively thick cover and you are going to use it to go to a 100-300yd range say, I think the .300BLK is just less of a hassle than the 6.5G/264lbc-ar.  The ballistics are just fine for the hunting you do and that whole suppressed thing will be a breeze for you with nice heavy bullets.
Link Posted: 3/30/2011 2:16:34 PM EDT
Both are specialty calibers. I have a Grendel and love the accuracy it offers. It will be used as a deer gun this fall and if I happen to get a wild hair I will build a 300BLK but only when ammo prices fall considerably. The advantage the 65G offers is cheap reloadable brass Wolf ammo for around $13/20rds. AFAIK 300BLK is still in the $1+/rd category. There is Grendel ammo that costs that much but it loads Barnes, SMKs, and VLDs.

If you are a reloader and want a subsonic setup the 300BLK is probably the best choice. PMags, any reputable bolt manufacturer, no special firing pins, off the shelf 223 brass.  Downside––-you have to be a reloader or pay through the nose. Advantage Grendel.

It will be an excellent performer however a 762x39 carbine can run with quality parts and brass ammo can be found for $0.25/rd or less if you look hard.
Link Posted: 3/30/2011 5:37:43 PM EDT
Umm, both?    I've got a Grendel and a 300 Fireball and if I had to give one up I wouldn't be able to decide between the two.
Link Posted: 3/30/2011 6:13:24 PM EDT
Wow that is a difficult choice...Well if your shooting within 300 yards max I would really go w/ 7.62X40 WT Instead of 300 BLK, just gives a little better range.

If you need or are more comfortable w/ the longer range shots go w/ the 6.5 Grendel.
Link Posted: 3/31/2011 10:33:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LMTRocks:
Both are specialty calibers. I have a Grendel and love the accuracy it offers. It will be used as a deer gun this fall and if I happen to get a wild hair I will build a 300BLK but only when ammo prices fall considerably. The advantage the 65G offers is cheap reloadable brass Wolf ammo for around $13/20rds. AFAIK 300BLK is still in the $1+/rd category. There is Grendel ammo that costs that much but it loads Barnes, SMKs, and VLDs.

If you are a reloader and want a subsonic setup the 300BLK is probably the best choice. PMags, any reputable bolt manufacturer, no special firing pins, off the shelf 223 brass.  Downside––-you have to be a reloader or pay through the nose. Advantage Grendel.

It will be an excellent performer however a 762x39 carbine can run with quality parts and brass ammo can be found for $0.25/rd or less if you look hard.


6.5G still uses a standard firing pin and bolt carrier.  The bolt itself must be replaced.

And the bolts come with any barrel you buy, so it's not a huge deal unless you break one (which is highly unlikely, despite rumors to the contrary).  And even then it's $60 and you're back in the game.


OP, the advantage of the 6.5G is high ballistic coefficient of the projectiles.  The 300BLK performs very well subsonic.

Neither is of distinct advantage for deer hunting.  Both cartridges get you above minimum caliber restrictions, which is what you're really looking for, I'd think.  

So the tiebreaker is what the secondary use for the rifle will be.
Link Posted: 3/31/2011 11:54:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By LMTRocks:
Both are specialty calibers. I have a Grendel and love the accuracy it offers. It will be used as a deer gun this fall and if I happen to get a wild hair I will build a 300BLK but only when ammo prices fall considerably. The advantage the 65G offers is cheap reloadable brass Wolf ammo for around $13/20rds. AFAIK 300BLK is still in the $1+/rd category. There is Grendel ammo that costs that much but it loads Barnes, SMKs, and VLDs.

If you are a reloader and want a subsonic setup the 300BLK is probably the best choice. PMags, any reputable bolt manufacturer, no special firing pins, off the shelf 223 brass.  Downside––-you have to be a reloader or pay through the nose. Advantage Grendel.

It will be an excellent performer however a 762x39 carbine can run with quality parts and brass ammo can be found for $0.25/rd or less if you look hard.


6.5G still uses a standard firing pin and bolt carrier.  The bolt itself must be replaced.

And the bolts come with any barrel you buy, so it's not a huge deal unless you break one (which is highly unlikely, despite rumors to the contrary).  And even then it's $60 and you're back in the game.


OP, the advantage of the 6.5G is high ballistic coefficient of the projectiles.  The 300BLK performs very well subsonic.

Neither is of distinct advantage for deer hunting.  Both cartridges get you above minimum caliber restrictions, which is what you're really looking for, I'd think.  

So the tiebreaker is what the secondary use for the rifle will be.


You're doing it wrong.  You're supposed to tell him to get both!  
Link Posted: 3/31/2011 12:00:02 PM EDT
About the same diff as a 6.5G and a 7.62x39.

6.5G for better long range out to 350 yds or so.
300 BLK out to 150 yards and for heavy bullets, subsonic etc.

That said a 300 BLK loaded hot with a 110 gr TTSX should be good for 250-300 just guessing.

The 300 BLK should feed better and you dont have that ridiculous AA trademark to deal with.

Link Posted: 3/31/2011 12:05:24 PM EDT
I went .300BLK.  I haven't even touched the rifle yet (I'm in Iraq, and also waiting on my F4 to be approved), but the interchangeabliity with current parts made the difference for me.  I ordered a Noveske.  They also sell barrels.  I would like to find a 20" BBL to mate to an upper and have a .30cal AR that is not subgun size for a little bit longer range.  



The prospect of me not having to buy specialized magazines (I have ~200 metal mags and ~40 PMags) was the big decision maker for me.
Link Posted: 3/31/2011 12:49:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cvtrpr:
I went .300BLK.  I haven't even touched the rifle yet (I'm in Iraq, and also waiting on my F4 to be approved), but the interchangeabliity with current parts made the difference for me.  I ordered a Noveske.  They also sell barrels.  I would like to find a 20" BBL to mate to an upper and have a .30cal AR that is not subgun size for a little bit longer range.  

The prospect of me not having to buy specialized magazines (I have ~200 metal mags and ~40 PMags) was the big decision maker for me.


The mag aspect is definitely a huge plus for me as well...
Link Posted: 3/31/2011 4:45:33 PM EDT
I have a 300 BLK and would NEVER consider hunting deer with it.  There are so many calibers that do
a better job at hunting.....

6.8 G
6.8 SPC II
6x45
7.62x40

That is just to name a few.  They all have their benefits and short comings.  The all need specialty
bolts and mags (or at least modified ones).  But they all are heads and shoulders above the 300 BLK
when it comes to hunting medium game.  

The 300 BLK, in my opinion, is a great gun for sub sonic use.  If I was on a short range tactical hog
hunt, I would love to see what the 220 gr. subs do to a hog at close range.  When you move up to
the super sonic (light or heavy) bullets, the 300 BLK gives up so much to the other rounds, its not
even close.  

Believe me I am NOT a hater of the 300 BLK.  I love it and I shoot it a lot.....but I realize its potential
and where it shines......and that is in SUB SONCS.

My 300 BLK (Noveske 10")
Link Posted: 3/31/2011 5:47:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Overton-AR:
I have a 300 BLK and would NEVER consider hunting deer with it.  There are so many calibers that do
a better job at hunting.....

6.8 G
6.8 SPC II
6x45
7.62x40

That is just to name a few.  They all have their benefits and short comings.  The all need specialty
bolts and mags (or at least modified ones).  But they all are heads and shoulders above the 300 BLK
when it comes to hunting medium game.  


The 300 BLK, in my opinion, is a great gun for sub sonic use.  If I was on a short range tactical hog
hunt, I would love to see what the 220 gr. subs do to a hog at close range.  When you move up to
the super sonic (light or heavy) bullets, the 300 BLK gives up so much to the other rounds, its not
even close.  

Believe me I am NOT a hater of the 300 BLK.  I love it and I shoot it a lot.....but I realize its potential
and where it shines......and that is in SUB SONCS.

My 300 BLK (Noveske 10")
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/yfz450air/DSC00062.jpg


Your right the 300 BLK is a great gun for subsonic use but I would really like to know how you classify the other guns listed as head and shoulders above it? The ballistic tables I am looking at put most within 200 fps and less than 150 foot pounds difference between the blackout and all the other rifles. When you considered the variety of bullets available for the blackout from bonded/partitioned/hollow point/match to polymer tipped I can't imagine a more versatile deer hunting rifle without loading a true 7.62 X 51.

If what your worried about is take down at long range then the .308 cartridge is the only true round that is head and shoulders above all the rounds listed above. Plus there are plenty of magazines/rifles/production/mil surp ammo to make all of those wildcats look insignificant.

Since I also know many people who have taken deer with the blackout I can't see why anyone with any skill as a hunter would have a problem putting down a good size animal with the 300 BLK. The bonus being you can do it very quietly if your chose.

Link Posted: 3/31/2011 10:54:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2011 11:27:32 PM EDT by bradl45]
The Blackout is a blast to shoot, most of my rounds down range have been in an AR pistol, not really a hunting gun, but it's great fun shooting many IPSC targets scattered about, and I've bagged many coyotes with a 16 inch gun, big difference between a yote and a pig though.

For hunting:
300 Blackout 125 BT going 2250 FPS gives approx 1450 Foot lbs Energy
6x223(45)      85 GR           2800 FPS                    1480 FPE
7.62x40         125 BT going 2400 FPS                    1600 FPE
6.5G              107gr            2700 FPS                    1730 FPE
6.8 SPC, Wilson 95gr TTSX 2950fps                       1800 FPE(out of an AR, NICE)

For comparison, I've shot many Muley's with a 308, 165 BT at 2700 fps  2700 FPE, but damm that AR10 is heavy(usually lugged a bolt gun,lol)

Pick your power level.

Maybe someday I can buy some 300 Blackout ammo from Wilson, 125 BT or maybe a lighter 110 TTSX, it will be good predator(it won't matter how many legs either) ammo.

Which upper, both of course, and which ever one gathers dust, sell it off.
Link Posted: 4/1/2011 6:52:29 AM EDT
Just ordered a 7.62x40 from Wilson.  
Link Posted: 4/1/2011 10:44:06 AM EDT
Nice,

Only draw back I can see with that is shooting subsonic with a heavy 220SMK and the x40's 1/12(or is it 1/11) twist barrel.  Blackout's use a 1/8 twist and shoot subs great.  Since you have a 9mm can, I'm sure you'd like to shoot some quite rounds.
Link Posted: 4/1/2011 6:34:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bradl45:
Nice,

Only draw back I can see with that is shooting subsonic with a heavy 220SMK and the x40's 1/12(or is it 1/11) twist barrel.  Blackout's use a 1/8 twist and shoot subs great.  Since you have a 9mm can, I'm sure you'd like to shoot some quite rounds.


From what I understood you cant load a 220 SMK into the X 40's because the case is to long and the ogive sets back behind the top of the neck?
Link Posted: 4/1/2011 7:15:21 PM EDT
I think the experimenters will find a way for Subs, Maybe the brass can be trimmed back enough, maybe a 208 Amax will work(or another 225gr bullet), HK mag will let you load longer etc.

I think the OP will like the x40, it's not as stout as his 7-08, but it fits in an AR15 size package, and the 308 has an almost endless supply of different bullets to try.  I'd bet someone comes up with a 125 ballistic tip load over 2500FPS out of a 16 inch barrel soon.
Link Posted: 4/1/2011 8:42:01 PM EDT
It would seem the biggest problem with the x40 and heavy bullets is the 1:12 twist rate.  Correct me if I'm wrong but that twist won't stabilize those 200+ grain bullets.  OP, hope you like your new rifle!

As far as not being a hunting round (300 BLK that is):  What??

Thread w/ 100+ lb Deer and 200+ lb Hog kills
Link Posted: 4/2/2011 7:27:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tammons:
About the same diff as a 6.5G and a 7.62x39.

6.5G for better long range out to 350 yds or so.
300 BLK out to 150 yards and for heavy bullets, subsonic etc.

That said a 300 BLK loaded hot with a 110 gr TTSX should be good for 250-300 just guessing.

The 300 BLK should feed better and you dont have that ridiculous AA trademark to deal with.



Uhhmmmm OK? Buyers dont really have to deal with the trademark, you just buy the stuff. Not the easiest thing in the world to find but not really difficult either. Not really knocking the 300 but really is not a huge gain over the AK round. The accuracy gain in using the AR platform is awesome though. If you shoot with suppresors it rocks! The 6.5 is good for deer way out there and has taken Elk out to 450 yards or so. For targets it is good to a grand.
Link Posted: 4/2/2011 7:48:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kentucky_smith:
Just ordered a 7.62x40 from Wilson.  


Good move...Best of luck w/ it...Post some pics and stuff (range report) when you get it...

Thanks.
Link Posted: 4/2/2011 4:15:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2011 4:24:37 PM EDT by EWP]
Originally Posted By agBQ08:
It would seem the biggest problem with the x40 and heavy bullets is the 1:12 twist rate.  Correct me if I'm wrong but that twist won't stabilize those 200+ grain bullets.  OP, hope you like your new rifle!

As far as not being a hunting round (300 BLK that is):  What??

Thread w/ 100+ lb Deer and 200+ lb Hog kills


                         
Try this again with a pic

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