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Posted: 4/29/2022 11:19:33 AM EDT
[#1]
Looking forward to Molon's data on this barrel for sure.
On the tapered bore front... I have 3 barrels advertised to have tapered bores and all easily shoot MOA groups with most match ammo. The only video I have is on the Centurion one below but they all shoot about the same which is to say -- very well.  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 4/29/2022 11:47:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I probably should have been more specific in my response. My response was more directed at Hodge being more accurate due to a tapered bore. Hodge has "huge" demand and little supply as well as higher prices and supposedly top quality. I'm not saying he stuff isn't nice or doesn't function well, but I'm in the camp of his prices are higher due to hype. If he claims his barrels are more expensive (and more accurate) due to the tapered bore, I was just trying to show that there are more accurate, quality barrels out there for a better deal. A tapered mandrel may very well add to the cost of production for a tapered bore, or his specs for the manufacturer, but I don't see the benefit in the linked tests based on price. I'd like to know this as well. It's gotta be an incredibly fine taper which I imagine does make the manufacturing of the mandrel more costly. I’ve always understood the price to be more about durability than accuracy. |
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Posted: 4/29/2022 12:08:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve always understood the price to be more about durability than accuracy. Still other very reputable companies selling hammer forged, chrome lined barrels for at least $100 less than Hodge. Centurion, Criterion, BCM, Colt, etc. Not trying to derail this from Geissele, but they have hopefully now entered that category as well. Their Super Duty rifle's and uppers shoot well, so I'm looking forward to these results. |
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Posted: 4/29/2022 12:31:19 PM EDT
[#4]
The engraving on the barrel is nasty. It looks like a dullard used a soldering iron on a piece of plastic.
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Posted: 4/29/2022 2:00:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I probably should have been more specific in my response. My response was more directed at Hodge being more accurate due to a tapered bore. Hodge has "huge" demand and little supply as well as higher prices and supposedly top quality. I'm not saying he stuff isn't nice or doesn't function well, but I'm in the camp of his prices are higher due to hype. If he claims his barrels are more expensive (and more accurate) due to the tapered bore, I was just trying to show that there are more accurate, quality barrels out there for a better deal. A tapered mandrel may very well add to the cost of production for a tapered bore, or his specs for the manufacturer, but I don't see the benefit in the linked tests based on price. I'd like to know this as well. It's gotta be an incredibly fine taper which I imagine does make the manufacturing of the mandrel more costly. There are Hodge threads here |
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Posted: 4/29/2022 3:55:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looking forward to Molon's data on this barrel for sure. On the tapered bore front... I have 3 barrels advertised to have tapered bores and all easily shoot MOA groups with most match ammo. The only video I have is on the Centurion one below but they all shoot about the same which is to say -- very well.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3myEt3jGc-U@mrgunsngear I know at one point you posted a short video of a Geissele super duty and stated a full review was coming. Are you still planning on doing a full review? |
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Posted: 4/29/2022 4:17:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @mrgunsngear I know at one point you posted a short video of a Geissele super duty and stated a full review was coming. Are you still planning on doing a full review? I've been told one will arrive one of these days for review but that has yet to materialize.... |
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Posted: 4/29/2022 6:56:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Chris from SAS had to borrow one of the Super Duty rifles from a friend to review it. He doesn't really do accuracy tests, though.
It feels like Geissele is notoriously stingy on issuing products for review. |
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Posted: 4/29/2022 8:05:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Chris from SAS had to borrow one of the Super Duty rifles from a friend to review it. He doesn't really do accuracy tests, though. It feels like Geissele is notoriously stingy on issuing products for review. I don't know about the past, but probably because they're selling the crap out of them currently. |
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Posted: 4/29/2022 8:54:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For comparison, a Larue 16" mid-length barrel has a gas port diameter of 0.082". https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/pin_gauge_in_gas_port_of_larue_barrel_00-2362875.jpg .. Gotcha, I grabbed 6 or 7 models from "the list" that were .071 to .074, there are quite a few 16" MLs on there. I was trying to list the comparable barrels (DD, Triarc, etc.) Aero/BA has a few fatties on there at .078 to .079 A better average would be about .076 for the list I have |
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Posted: 4/30/2022 12:28:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A copy/paste of a response from Monty at Centurion: it is also the same barrel material and process used on the 1/2moa sniper rifles FN won the FBI contract with and that are still in service. The FN SPR sniper rifles use hammer forged hard chrome lined taper bore barrels to get ½ moa accuracy Quote HistoryQuoted: A copy/paste of a response from Monty at Centurion: it is also the same barrel material and process used on the 1/2moa sniper rifles FN won the FBI contract with and that are still in service. The FN SPR sniper rifles use hammer forged hard chrome lined taper bore barrels to get ½ moa accuracy Gaurenteed by FN, by the way..every single FBI spec rifle, not just a one in a million miracle. Quoted:FN hands down manufactures the best machine guns in the world and there isn’t even a close second in this field there isn’t even any two companies you can combine that has as much institutional knowledge as they do in making beltfed machine guns. The same could (and rightfully should) be said about FN's CHF/CL AR barrels specifically. Steyer is likely the only manufacturer with more experience in CHF/CL barrels in general, considering any other weapon system. Regardless FN has been CHF/CL barrels for use in widely issued weapons by legitimate, first world militaries for decades. |
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Posted: 4/30/2022 2:19:09 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looking forward to Molon's data on this barrel for sure. On the tapered bore front... I have 3 barrels advertised to have tapered bores and all easily shoot MOA groups with most match ammo. The only video I have is on the Centurion one below but they all shoot about the same which is to say -- very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3myEt3jGc-UThat Centurion rifle is incredible. I know the Geissele Super Duty is fancier, but man that setup and that kind of accuracy would be hard to pass up if you could only choose one. |
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Posted: 4/30/2022 11:15:47 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That Centurion rifle is incredible. I know the Geissele Super Duty is fancier, but man that setup and that kind of accuracy would be hard to pass up if you could only choose one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looking forward to Molon's data on this barrel for sure. On the tapered bore front... I have 3 barrels advertised to have tapered bores and all easily shoot MOA groups with most match ammo. The only video I have is on the Centurion one below but they all shoot about the same which is to say -- very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3myEt3jGc-UThat Centurion rifle is incredible. I know the Geissele Super Duty is fancier, but man that setup and that kind of accuracy would be hard to pass up if you could only choose one. I wish I would have grabbed one when they were $999! Big mistake |
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Posted: 4/30/2022 12:37:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Centurion makes great stuff. Solid, nothing too flashy.
There is a reason his bbl’s are usually OOS. Everything I have ever bought from them has had a hand written thank you on the invoice. Good people |
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Posted: 4/30/2022 1:08:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Words stollen… Anyway, I’d love to see someone else with proper pin gauges check another 16” barrel. Just out of curiosity. In for more great Molon info. Pin gauges are best, but I use a complete numbered drill set. I find the last one that fits, and take a measurement on that one, and then a measurement on the next one that would not fit. Gets you "close". Drill's are in small increments. 
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Posted: 4/30/2022 1:11:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For comparison, a Larue 16" mid-length barrel has a gas port diameter of 0.082". https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/pin_gauge_in_gas_port_of_larue_barrel_00-2362875.jpg .. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yep, that is pretty small by about .010 on average from other barrel brands in that size/gas length For comparison, a Larue 16" mid-length barrel has a gas port diameter of 0.082". https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/pin_gauge_in_gas_port_of_larue_barrel_00-2362875.jpg .. In my experience, all my LaRue PredaTAR barrels are really, really strongly gassed in practical shooting as well. You can see it when playing with different spring weights, buffer weights, and ejection patterns. Never had it cause a problem though. |
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Posted: 4/30/2022 7:09:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been told one will arrive one of these days for review but that has yet to materialize.... Great. I’m looking forward to it. 
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Posted: 5/4/2022 5:59:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Pulled the trigger on the last one Midway had in stock. Between Geiselle direct and Midway, these may not be in stock for a while, but who knows. It was calling me. I'm a sucker for CHF barrels...
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Posted: 5/6/2022 9:00:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gotcha, I grabbed 6 or 7 models from "the list" that were .071 to .074, there are quite a few 16" MLs on there. I was trying to list the comparable barrels (DD, Triarc, etc.) Aero/BA has a few fatties on there at .078 to .079 A better average would be about .076 for the list I have Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For comparison, a Larue 16" mid-length barrel has a gas port diameter of 0.082". https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/pin_gauge_in_gas_port_of_larue_barrel_00-2362875.jpg .. Gotcha, I grabbed 6 or 7 models from "the list" that were .071 to .074, there are quite a few 16" MLs on there. I was trying to list the comparable barrels (DD, Triarc, etc.) Aero/BA has a few fatties on there at .078 to .079 A better average would be about .076 for the list I have The smallest gas port on a 16" mid-length that I've ever gauged at this point, was 0.0695" on the TRIARC Track 2.0. So the Geissele is still running close to 0.008" smaller than that.  .... |
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Posted: 5/6/2022 9:09:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The smallest gas port on a 16" mid-length that I've ever gauged was 0.0695" on the TRIARC Track 2.0. So the Geissele is still running close to 0.008" smaller than that. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/triarc_barrel_gas_port_diameter_002_resi-2285314.jpg .... Damn! I have a new Track 2 11.5 I am putting together. I wish I had a set of pin gauges. It will be suppressed 100% of the time. I don't have any data for the 11.5 |
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Posted: 5/6/2022 9:20:24 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The smallest gas port on a 16" mid-length that I've ever gauged was 0.0695" on the TRIARC Track 2.0. So the Geissele is still running close to 0.008" smaller than that. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/triarc_barrel_gas_port_diameter_002_resi-2285314.jpg .... How does it shoot? |
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Posted: 5/7/2022 9:13:45 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Aero/BA has a few fatties on there at .078 to .079 My Criterion CORE is also near the larger end of the spectrum. I might eventually put a BRT gas tube on it.  ... |
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Posted: 5/7/2022 9:38:27 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My Criterion CORE is also near the larger end of the spectrum. I might eventually put a BRT gas tube on it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/criterion_core_barrel_gas_port_gauge_001-2140823.jpg ... Not great not terrible. 14.5 or 16”? |
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Posted: 5/7/2022 10:35:38 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not great not terrible. 14.5 or 16”? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My Criterion CORE is also near the larger end of the spectrum. I might eventually put a BRT gas tube on it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/criterion_core_barrel_gas_port_gauge_001-2140823.jpg ... Not great not terrible. 14.5 or 16”? 16" mid-length. |
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Posted: 5/7/2022 10:43:50 AM EDT
[#25]
I bought a Daniel Defense 16" Lightweight Mid-length CHF Barrel back in 2011 and it had a gas port size of .072.
 Attached File Attached FileIDK what the deal with the label is but the barrel definitely has a mid length gas system. |
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Posted: 5/7/2022 10:58:41 AM EDT
[#26]
Is there a formula that roughly calculates gas flow? could you reasonably estimate gas flow based on port, dwell length, and gas port distance? Assuming using basic ammo
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Posted: 5/7/2022 11:41:36 AM EDT
[#27]
Measured some of my barrels.....
All 16", ML, .750" gas journal: DD 9089 - 0.072" Spikes Optimum - 0.075" FN Optimum profile - 0.078" 16", ML LaRue PredaTAR, .625" gas journal - 0.084" |
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Posted: 5/7/2022 12:03:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Off to order pin gauges...I want to play!
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Posted: 5/7/2022 2:13:54 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 5/7/2022 2:47:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Forgive my ignorance, but what part of the barrel is this?  https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/22392/9C9B7B8D-45A7-442E-BD0B-4CA76A12A2CE_jpe-2375357.JPG Muzzle end with a straightness gauge in the bore. |
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Posted: 5/7/2022 2:48:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Muzzle end with a straightness gauge in the bore. “Straightness gauge in the bore” might be measuring straightness, but that sounds kinda gay
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Posted: 5/7/2022 2:59:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “Straightness gauge in the bore” might be measuring straightness, but that sounds kinda gay Hah, true. It's a worthless measurement unless you're measuring concentricity with a muzzle device/suppressor. CHF barrels are hammered around a mandrel and not drilled anyway, leading to straighter bores. |
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Posted: 5/7/2022 3:18:53 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Muzzle end with a straightness gauge in the bore. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Forgive my ignorance, but what part of the barrel is this? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/22392/9C9B7B8D-45A7-442E-BD0B-4CA76A12A2CE_jpe-2375357.JPG Muzzle end with a straightness gauge in the bore. Okay, now I understand WTF I am looking at. That picture completely had me puzzled. But, of course it would, as I don’t have any tools/equipment like that and don’t put ARs together. I just shoot them.
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Posted: 5/7/2022 4:51:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hah, true. It's a worthless measurement unless you're measuring concentricity with a muzzle device/suppressor. CHF barrels are hammered around a mandrel and not drilled anyway, leading to straighter bores. Barrels are heat treated/straightened post forging. Barrels are drilled. Daniel Defense makes an AR barrel, starting with steel rod, drilling a pilot hole, gundrilling the bore hole, then running it on the GFM machine, profiling it, chambering, etc. |
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Posted: 5/8/2022 12:30:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hah, true. It's a worthless measurement unless you're measuring concentricity with a muzzle device/suppressor. CHF barrels are hammered around a mandrel and not drilled anyway, leading to straighter bores. Not Geissele but your mentioning of CHF reminded me of this video. Starts at 32:14 but I thought that this was really interesting that there's even a guy who makes sure that HK's CHF barrels are are all straight. Not sure if necessary or just a last redundant step with German over engineering.  THE BUNDESWEHR ARMOURY: Weapons - How German infantry fights in battle | WELT Full HD Documentary |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 12:54:05 AM EDT
[#36]
So, threw the new barrel on an upper this weekend and went out for a test shoot to see how it grouped. After only a dozen shots or so, I called it a day because not one round cycled correctly. They would eject, but the carrier would not pick up another one.
The ejection pattern was about 3 o'clock (H1 buffer) and consitent for every load in used. The lower and upper have been used before with zero hiccups. Shot 3 different types of ammo, including 75g Match grade Hornady, and full powered IMI M193 and M855.... And Nothing worked. In fact, the final round didn't even eject. The bolt remained closed and I had to manually charge it to eject. Now yes, this could have all been from a misaligned gas block... But it wasn't. The gas block was perfect. It was aligned directly over the dimple and attached. The gas setup was also just used on another 16", mid-length setup to perfection on a BA nitirded barrel. It functioned flawlessly there, but was a cycling nightmare with the Geissele Barrel. I'm not even sure what to do now. I guess I'm going to have to call Geissele or Midway to try to get a refund, because this is not acceptable. If the barrel will only work with a suppressor, then Geissele should have declared that in their description. I have also not heard of any cycling problems with the Geissele Super Duty rifles, which this 16" barrel is supposed to be modeled after... Only the gas length change for more home build parts compatibility. Anyone know what else could be wrong? I'm pretty perplexed and perturbed here. I guess I will try another gas block and BCG combo as soon as I get the chance to change them out, but I doubt it's going to help. All I know is, it shouldn't be this finicky to shoot full powered mil spec ammo. That M855 is some very very high pressure stuff and this should not be happening. |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 1:24:28 AM EDT
[#37]
How worn is the gas tube bulb?
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Posted: 5/16/2022 9:43:32 AM EDT
[#38]
Yeah I had my doubts about .062” on a 16” mid.
Have the port opened up to .073” and it’ll run like a top. |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 9:56:56 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have the port opened up to .073” and it’ll run like a top. Id probably just try a lighter buffer first. Id also make sure on the gas block, unless its a G too, I have had mix and match gasblock/barrels that have not lined up even on the dimple. |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 9:57:08 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah I had my doubts about .062” on a 16” mid. Have the port opened up to .073” and it’ll run like a top. Absolutely. Wonder how many of these got mis-drilled in the rush to get them to market while making two 16" barrels with different gas system lengths? |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 10:10:27 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Id probably just try a lighter buffer first. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Have the port opened up to .073" and it'll run like a top. Id probably just try a lighter buffer first. Double and then triple-check gas block alignment, lots to go wrong there. Check out the used gas tube funtion and installation. Moving back, does gas tube align properly with carrier key? And on and on and on. But still, step 1 is test a carbine buffer. |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 5:14:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Or just get Geissele on the phone and they may admit to nobody's surprise that they released a bunch of mid-length barrels that got drilled for carbine-length gas ports.
Here's a large sample of industry barrels.  0.062" on mid-length is definitely "oops we did these wrong" sizing. Time for a refund/replacement. Another Geissele quality control masterpiece. Don't waste your time diagnosing a solution to someone's mistake, especially one you paid for. It's neat that they're doing barrels, and it'll be good when they're doing it right. |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 5:33:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Ooof
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Posted: 5/16/2022 10:11:14 PM EDT
[#44]
I enhanced a 16” middy G barrel photo from Midway, and measured it out with a ruler. I measured the black hole of the gas port is roughly 9.8% of the width of the barrel. So 9.8% of .750” gives us 0.074” should be the original gas port width. Of course this ain’t scientific with pin gauges but I bet I’m close within a couple pixels or two.
 Attached FileEdit: Virtual Pin Guage TM  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 10:21:57 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: I've been told one will arrive one of these days for review but that has yet to materialize.... I have a new in box 16 inch 40mm super duty I’d be more than happy to loan to you for a review.  Attached Filehttps://www.ar15.com/forums/General/i-found-this-interesting-Geissele-Super-Duty-/5-2553167/ Hope a review would also help clear this up as well. |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 11:07:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Confirmed from Bill…. In the other thread in GD.
.062” is the Quoted: Quoted: There are reports that some recently purchased 16” mid length G barrels are arriving with really small gas ports…. Possibly misdrilled as if they were carbine length Nope, .062" is the correct size. Guns run just fine. No more eyefuls of gas. Especially with a suppressor. |
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Posted: 5/17/2022 1:44:36 AM EDT
[#47]
It’s a suppressor use only barrel?
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Posted: 5/17/2022 5:32:04 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a new in box 16 inch 40mm super duty I’d be more than happy to loan to you for a review. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/503939/51C25804-1330-4955-A1C8-F626CBADE244_jpe-2386704.JPG https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/i-found-this-interesting-Geissele-Super-Duty-/5-2553167/ Hope a review would also help clear this up as well. Awesome. Hope he takes you up on it. 
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Posted: 5/17/2022 11:54:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, threw the new barrel on an upper this weekend and went out for a test shoot to see how it grouped. After only a dozen shots or so, I called it a day because not one round cycled correctly. They would eject, but the carrier would not pick up another one. The ejection pattern was about 3 o'clock (H1 buffer) and consitent for every load in used. The lower and upper have been used before with zero hiccups. Shot 3 different types of ammo, including 75g Match grade Hornady, and full powered IMI M193 and M855.... And Nothing worked. In fact, the final round didn't even eject. The bolt remained closed and I had to manually charge it to eject. Now yes, this could have all been from a misaligned gas block... But it wasn't. The gas block was perfect. It was aligned directly over the dimple and attached. The gas setup was also just used on another 16", mid-length setup to perfection on a BA nitirded barrel. It functioned flawlessly there, but was a cycling nightmare with the Geissele Barrel. I'm not even sure what to do now. I guess I'm going to have to call Geissele or Midway to try to get a refund, because this is not acceptable. If the barrel will only work with a suppressor, then Geissele should have declared that in their description. I have also not heard of any cycling problems with the Geissele Super Duty rifles, which this 16" barrel is supposed to be modeled after... Only the gas length change for more home build parts compatibility. Anyone know what else could be wrong? I'm pretty perplexed and perturbed here. I guess I will try another gas block and BCG combo as soon as I get the chance to change them out, but I doubt it's going to help. All I know is, it shouldn't be this finicky to shoot full powered mil spec ammo. That M855 is some very very high pressure stuff and this should not be happening. Yeah, that’s pretty shitty on Geissele’s part. I had a factory FN barrel that showed up with a .060 port…found out the hard way. I have some carbide drill bits that will open it up to .073 and it will be perfect. I’d be glad to send you one if you end up getting stuck with the barrel and need a fix. |
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Posted: 5/19/2022 6:27:59 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Forgive my ignorance, but what part of the barrel is this? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/22392/9C9B7B8D-45A7-442E-BD0B-4CA76A12A2CE_jpe-2375357.JPG It's a muzzle brake threaded on to the barrel with a straightness gauge running through the barrel and the muzzle brake. It can give you an idea of how concentric the muzzle threads are to the bore.  .... |
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