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Link Posted: 4/12/2011 9:03:47 AM EDT
[#1]
Please excuse my vernacular but HOLY CRAP. Glad the guy is still in one piece. Worst I have ever seen, by far. That WAS a nice rifle, ACOG, Timney trigger, etc.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 9:05:32 AM EDT
[#2]
I was just thinking what your face would look like if that happened in a bullpup.  Glad not one got seriously injured with that one.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 9:20:36 AM EDT
[#3]
glad to see the acog survived
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 9:28:33 AM EDT
[#4]
Dam, that is a bad Kboom.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 9:31:02 AM EDT
[#5]
He can buy another rifle from the cost savings from reloading.



He is lucky to only sustain minor injuries.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 9:49:31 AM EDT
[#6]




Quoted:

He can buy another rifle from the cost savings from reloading.

Not if he keeps reloading like that he won't
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 10:03:46 AM EDT
[#7]
This is reason numero uno why I don't grip the mag-well while shooting.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 10:04:35 AM EDT
[#8]
I long ago adopted the rule that I don't have pistol and rifle powder out on the bench at the same time, or more than one can of powder in use at any time, regardless of type.  One powder gets put away completely before another comes out of the powder storage area.  I guess stuff like this is why that rule was invented.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 10:06:56 AM EDT
[#9]
Stupid is as stupid does.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 10:08:29 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 10:13:30 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
i am going on a limb and saying this is more than an obstructed bore. that pressure spike was WAYYYYYY above and beyond.


You don't have to go out on a limb, just read up ^
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 10:18:54 AM EDT
[#12]
to bad cav is not around fix/replace the lower per their lifetime warrentee guess it was cavs lifetime  will not take up reloading a few beers and i can see fail ,to add i shot my cav for the first time yesterday
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 10:19:19 AM EDT
[#13]



Quoted:


Stupid is as stupid does.


Yep.

 
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 10:20:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
i am going on a limb and saying this is more than an obstructed bore. that pressure spike was WAYYYYYY above and beyond.


You don't have to go out on a limb, just read up ^

+1

Aside from the destroyed barrel extension, the barrel had no visible damage to it.  There was no obstruction.  The round fired and cleared the barrel.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 10:33:56 AM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 10:56:58 AM EDT
[#16]
I gotta ask:  being there, what did it sound like?  An explosion, or a louder-than-normal shot?  

I wonder what the muzzle velocity of the projectile was...
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 11:00:54 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
And that is why you need to know what you are doing when reloading


I agree, but I'll add that reloading isn't really that difficult or dangerous.  The hardest part is PAYING ATTENTION.  25 grains of Bullseye in a .223 case would result in a pretty lousy day.  If you follow published loads, you'll be fine.

But then, some people can't even make blue box macaroni and cheese correctly.  


When I reload there is no one else in my shop but me, and no TV, just at the most, a MP3 player.

Link Posted: 4/12/2011 11:03:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Now what would have happened if he had a magwell grip?

I usually get flamed when I point out that magwell grips are a bad idea for this reason

I will have to agree, that's the most severe AR KB I've ever seen.  That shattered barrel extension, amount the rest of the damage, is eye popping for sure.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 11:05:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 11:15:00 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I gotta ask:  being there, what did it sound like?  An explosion, or a louder-than-normal shot?  

I wonder what the muzzle velocity of the projectile was...


Several of us were standing around at the PRG 3 Gun match waiting to shoot, not watching what happened.  I can't recall it sounding louder than the brake on his rifle, because none of us turned around to look until we heard the shooting stopped and we heard someone asking the shooter if he was ok.  The rifle was in pieces on the ground.

I've never seen a bolt carrier come apart like that, split sure, but never fragmented.  I've also never seen a barrel extension cracked like that, or an upper split apart like an aluminum can.


I'm impressed that the shooter was relatively unscathed.  From the look of the pieces, it was a fairly customized rifle with high end parts in it.  Do you happen to know the manufacturer of the upper or the BCG?
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 11:20:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Holy shit that is the worst KB I've ever seen.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 11:21:52 AM EDT
[#22]
Damn!
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 11:26:06 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
i am going on a limb and saying this is more than an obstructed bore. that pressure spike was WAYYYYYY above and beyond.


You don't have to go out on a limb, just read up ^

+1

Aside from the destroyed barrel extension, the barrel had no visible damage to it.  There was no obstruction.  The round fired and cleared the barrel.


I bet it had a pretty flat trajectory compared to a normally loaded .223
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 11:27:34 AM EDT
[#24]
I was standing 10 feet behing him loading mags.  The shot was no different than any other shots.  I only looked up because the RO was yelling for assistance.

Parts list.
Cav-arms mk2 lower in tan + lower parts kit.
Custom trigger pins.
Compass lake 18" govt profile douglas premium airguaged stainless steel barrel with matched bolt.
Ameetec cam pin, firing pin, firing pin retainer pin, slick side upper receiver. 
Charging handle
USGI 30rd aluminum magazine with Magpul follower, and Magpul magpul in OD green.
Miculek brake
YHM low profile gas block, gas tube
Clark custom forearm, carbon fiber lightweight tube
Young mfg bolt carrier.
Timney trigger


Parts destroyed:
upper, lower receivers.
BCG: total loss
Forearm
barrel, gas tube, gas block, muzzle brake,
LPK: mag release, bolt release, custom trigger pins, take down pins.
charging handle is bent.
USGI mag with magpul follower and ODgreen magpul.

Parts salvaged:
sling, bipod, buffer, buffer spring, selector(safety), timney trigger(maybe I have not tested it yet), ACOG.

The target showed 4 hits, the 4th rd KABOOM'D the rifle.  There were 26pcs of ammo on the deck after the rifle exploded.  A piece of the exploded cartridge is still in the chamber of the barrel.  The barrel extension split into 3 major pieces with smaller pieces cutting the left inside forearm. 

This rifle had just over 3k rds fired.  It had been cleaned the evening before, including a full chamber and bore scrubing.  He had already fired one stage that day(long range) with no issues at all. 

Link Posted: 4/12/2011 11:41:24 AM EDT
[#25]
I wonder if the flexability of the polymer helped some with the lower not fragmenting like the upper? kinda like a rubber hull on a hand grenade would really limit fragments.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 11:42:00 AM EDT
[#26]
holy hell
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 12:11:32 PM EDT
[#27]



Quoted:


Lol, I was wondering how we got 700+ views on that  thread overnight.  Sure enough it got cross-posted here.



Cause was a binary pistol/rifle powder charge on a reload.  There was no barrel obstruction.



My 2nd favorite pic:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00129-20101226-1008.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00128-20101226-1008.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00127-20101226-1007.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00125-20101226-1007.jpg



How did that happen?  If it were a Dillon, he would have to adjust the measure, throwing MULTIPLE loads and weighing them.  And most likely, the charge bar would have to be replaced, you don't do that with any powder in the measure.  Same thing with other brands.



This sounds like someone returned the wrong powder to the container.  Observation is key to reloading.  



 
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 3:25:28 PM EDT
[#28]



Quoted:


I was standing 10 feet behind him loading mags.  The shot was no different than any other shots.  I only looked up because the RO was yelling for assistance.







From your perspective, do you think a left hand shooter would have been injured more?



 
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 3:41:47 PM EDT
[#29]
TRUE CARNAGE!!!!  
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 3:55:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:

Quoted:
I was standing 10 feet behind him loading mags.  The shot was no different than any other shots.  I only looked up because the RO was yelling for assistance.



From your perspective, do you think a left hand shooter would have been injured more?
 


I wasn't even watching.  He was down this short barricade "hallway" on the stage, so no one but the R.O. really saw what happened.

It was probably more like 30 feet now that I think of where he was on that stage when it happened.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 3:57:57 PM EDT
[#31]
The smartest people learn from other's mistake, intelligent people learn from their own mistakes and fools repeat the same behaviour over and over again. Let's try to fall into the first two categories here.

Unless it was an intentional duplex load (which I doubt) powder was either left over but not visible in the hopper, or left over but not recognized as being the wrong powder, or the wrong powder was added to the mix by mistake during the loading process. The previous poster was right when he said never have more than one type powder (the one you are using) on the bench at any given time.

Duplex loads are mentioned from time to time in reloading forums and they do not get the proper ass chewing they deserve. This is what can happen. Because some yahoo thinks he knows better than the chemists that create this stuff and has tried it without killing himself or others does not make it safe let alone sane.

This serves as a message loud and clear to tighten up my vigilance!

Link Posted: 4/12/2011 4:09:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Ill say this im gld no one got seriously hurt..one other thing the youngs carrier..for a carrier key that was not staked it stayed on pretty well when everything around it  got destroyed.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 4:23:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Considering the damage to the upper I would say that CavArms lower held up remarkably well.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 5:21:00 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
The smartest people learn from other's mistake, intelligent people learn from their own mistakes and fools repeat the same behaviour over and over again. Let's try to fall into the first two categories here.

Unless it was an intentional duplex load (which I doubt) powder was either left over but not visible in the hopper, or left over but not recognized as being the wrong powder, or the wrong powder was added to the mix by mistake during the loading process. The previous poster was right when he said never have more than one type powder (the one you are using) on the bench at any given time.

Duplex loads are mentioned from time to time in reloading forums and they do not get the proper ass chewing they deserve. This is what can happen. Because some yahoo thinks he knows better than the chemists that create this stuff and has tried it without killing himself or others does not make it safe let alone sane.

This serves as a message loud and clear to tighten up my vigilance!



The voice of reason.
I'm not anal, but I have a strict routine when reloading, part of which is a deep and thorough cleaning of the powder measure and or dispenser when finished or changing powders, including upside down shaking and flashlight inspection. I don't like suprises at the firing line.....

Link Posted: 4/12/2011 5:21:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Lol, I was wondering how we got 700+ views on that  thread overnight.  Sure enough it got cross-posted here.

Cause was a binary pistol/rifle powder charge on a reload.  There was no barrel obstruction.

My 2nd favorite pic:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00129-20101226-1008.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00128-20101226-1008.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00127-20101226-1007.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00125-20101226-1007.jpg




WOW


that is crazy indeed
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 7:16:07 PM EDT
[#36]
I want to see what powder that guy used. Obviously the other rounds he has sitting there were most likely made the exact same way.

You have to be real fucking stupid to load rifle rounds with pistol powder.   There are only a few pistol powders that even have the consistency of rifle powder.

EDIT: The only way I can understand is if there had been a small amount of pistol powder still in the powder measure when he filled it with rifle powder, but I think he would have noticed when he went to set the powder charge weight.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 7:18:54 PM EDT
[#37]
Damn.  Sucks about his expensive rifle.   I guess it's a small price to pay.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 8:05:19 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
And that is why you need to know what you are doing when reloading


I agree, but I'll add that reloading isn't really that difficult or dangerous.  The hardest part is PAYING ATTENTION.  25 grains of Bullseye in a .223 case would result in a pretty lousy day.  If you follow published loads, you'll be fine.

But then, some people can't even make blue box macaroni and cheese correctly.  


+1
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 8:15:51 PM EDT
[#39]
I'm impressed that the ACOG apparently made it through unharmed.

I was thinking about buying one anyway.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 8:16:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 8:20:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 8:45:39 PM EDT
[#42]
What I want to know is if this was an intentional duplex round.  He had already shot a stage, so was he shooting these same rounds then?  Were the first 3 shots prior to this one also duplex loaded?  You hear of commercial ammo manufacturers using "blended powders".  Are those considered duplex as well?  Someone school me on this.  Definitely won't be playing around with any intentional duplex rounds here.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 9:37:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
What I want to know is if this was an intentional duplex round.  He had already shot a stage, so was he shooting these same rounds then?  Were the first 3 shots prior to this one also duplex loaded?  You hear of commercial ammo manufacturers using "blended powders".  Are those considered duplex as well?  Someone school me on this.  Definitely won't be playing around with any intentional duplex rounds here.


No, these were not intentional.  There was a batch of 1000 or so rounds.  When they were pulled, there were 4 rounds that had pistol powder mixed in with rifle powder.  The person who loaded these rounds screwed up.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 10:03:58 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What I want to know is if this was an intentional duplex round.  He had already shot a stage, so was he shooting these same rounds then?  Were the first 3 shots prior to this one also duplex loaded?  You hear of commercial ammo manufacturers using "blended powders".  Are those considered duplex as well?  Someone school me on this.  Definitely won't be playing around with any intentional duplex rounds here.


No, these were not intentional.  There was a batch of 1000 or so rounds.  When they were pulled, there were 4 rounds that had pistol powder mixed in with rifle powder.  The person who loaded these rounds screwed up.


Who DID reload it? I think we're assuming it was the rifle owner, but your post makes me think it was someone else.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 10:25:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Like other said - never seen a bolt split like that.  Never seen a bolt carrier split like that.  NEVER seen an exploded barrel extension!!!  DAAAAYUM!!!    Never seen anything like this before.  Glad the shooter is okay.

Also, it amazes me that people would post in a topic like this and not read the whole damn thing first.   Darwin is gonna get their ass, someday.  
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 10:52:54 PM EDT
[#46]
Expensive reloading lesson. Could've been a lot worse with medical bills or lawsuits from fragging your neighbor.
Link Posted: 4/12/2011 11:34:07 PM EDT
[#47]



Quoted:


Like other said - never seen a bolt split like that.  Never seen a bolt carrier split like that.  NEVER seen an exploded barrel extension!!!  DAAAAYUM!!!    Never seen anything like this before.  Glad the shooter is okay.



Also, it amazes me that people would post in a topic like this and not read the whole damn thing first.   Darwin is gonna get their ass, someday.  


I have.  Well, not nearly as dramatic but I have had a case head failure (thin web 1990s era FC American Eagle).  Here is the case:







Notice the case head and the flange on the lower part of the case, this is from the chamber chamfer.



Now for the bolt:







There is a fine crack in the middle of the bolt, centered in the extractor cut







Also a crack in the 5:00 position



Finally, web thickness:







The ones on the left are suspect cases.  Webs less than 0.170" are weak, these measured 0.155".  The case blew out right above the web.



Also not pictured, the magazine was ballooned out, follower, spring and base plate blew out.  Load was a moderate (2 grains under maximum) load of AA2520 and a Sierra 80 which had been fine at 1/2 grain more in LC brass.  The first three were within 3/4" at 300 yards, the 4th shot which was the KB one hit a few inches lower.
 
Link Posted: 4/13/2011 4:51:28 AM EDT
[#48]
Just wow...
Link Posted: 4/13/2011 6:29:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Makes me want to buy an ACOG!
Link Posted: 4/13/2011 7:30:00 AM EDT
[#50]
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