User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 9:03:47 AM EDT
[#1]
Please excuse my vernacular but HOLY CRAP. Glad the guy is still in one piece. Worst I have ever seen, by far. That WAS a nice rifle, ACOG, Timney trigger, etc.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 9:05:32 AM EDT
[#2]
I was just thinking what your face would look like if that happened in a bullpup. Glad not one got seriously injured with that one.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 9:20:36 AM EDT
[#3]
glad to see the acog survived
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 9:28:33 AM EDT
[#4]
Dam, that is a bad Kboom.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 9:31:02 AM EDT
[#5]
He can buy another rifle from the cost savings from reloading.
 He is lucky to only sustain minor injuries. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 9:49:31 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Not if he keeps reloading like that he won't He can buy another rifle from the cost savings from reloading. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 10:03:46 AM EDT
[#7]
This is reason numero uno why I don't grip the mag-well while shooting.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 10:04:35 AM EDT
[#8]
I long ago adopted the rule that I don't have pistol and rifle powder out on the bench at the same time, or more than one can of powder in use at any time, regardless of type. One powder gets put away completely before another comes out of the powder storage area. I guess stuff like this is why that rule was invented.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 10:06:56 AM EDT
[#9]
Stupid is as stupid does.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 10:08:29 AM EDT
[#10]
i am going on a limb and saying this is more than an obstructed bore. that pressure spike was WAYYYYYY above and beyond.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 10:13:30 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
i am going on a limb and saying this is more than an obstructed bore. that pressure spike was WAYYYYYY above and beyond. You don't have to go out on a limb, just read up ^ |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 10:18:54 AM EDT
[#12]
to bad cav is not around fix/replace the lower per their lifetime warrentee
 guess it was cavs lifetime will not take up reloading a few beers and i can see fail ,to add i shot my cav for the first time yesterday
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 10:19:19 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Stupid is as stupid does. Yep. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 10:20:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
i am going on a limb and saying this is more than an obstructed bore. that pressure spike was WAYYYYYY above and beyond. You don't have to go out on a limb, just read up ^ +1 Aside from the destroyed barrel extension, the barrel had no visible damage to it. There was no obstruction. The round fired and cleared the barrel. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 10:33:56 AM EDT
[#15]
I was present when this happened. It was by far the worst KB I've ever seen. Normally the bolt cracks, and the upper bends out a little and the mag comes apart. I'd never seen anything like this before in 9 years of customer service on AR pattern guns. I have seen the aftermath of KBs in multiple CAV-15s, and usually just the front mag well would split/fragment. I think the fact the lower came apart saved the shooter from more serious injury giving the gas more places to go.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 10:56:58 AM EDT
[#16]
I gotta ask: being there, what did it sound like? An explosion, or a louder-than-normal shot?
I wonder what the muzzle velocity of the projectile was... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 11:00:54 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
And that is why you need to know what you are doing when reloading I agree, but I'll add that reloading isn't really that difficult or dangerous. The hardest part is PAYING ATTENTION. 25 grains of Bullseye in a .223 case would result in a pretty lousy day. If you follow published loads, you'll be fine. But then, some people can't even make blue box macaroni and cheese correctly.  When I reload there is no one else in my shop but me, and no TV, just at the most, a MP3 player. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 11:03:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Now what would have happened if he had a magwell grip? I usually get flamed when I point out that magwell grips are a bad idea for this reason 
I will have to agree, that's the most severe AR KB I've ever seen. That shattered barrel extension, amount the rest of the damage, is eye popping for sure. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 11:05:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I gotta ask: being there, what did it sound like? An explosion, or a louder-than-normal shot? I wonder what the muzzle velocity of the projectile was... Several of us were standing around at the PRG 3 Gun match waiting to shoot, not watching what happened. I can't recall it sounding louder than the brake on his rifle, because none of us turned around to look until we heard the shooting stopped and we heard someone asking the shooter if he was ok. The rifle was in pieces on the ground. I've never seen a bolt carrier come apart like that, split sure, but never fragmented. I've also never seen a barrel extension cracked like that, or an upper split apart like an aluminum can. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 11:15:00 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I gotta ask: being there, what did it sound like? An explosion, or a louder-than-normal shot? I wonder what the muzzle velocity of the projectile was... Several of us were standing around at the PRG 3 Gun match waiting to shoot, not watching what happened. I can't recall it sounding louder than the brake on his rifle, because none of us turned around to look until we heard the shooting stopped and we heard someone asking the shooter if he was ok. The rifle was in pieces on the ground. I've never seen a bolt carrier come apart like that, split sure, but never fragmented. I've also never seen a barrel extension cracked like that, or an upper split apart like an aluminum can. I'm impressed that the shooter was relatively unscathed. From the look of the pieces, it was a fairly customized rifle with high end parts in it. Do you happen to know the manufacturer of the upper or the BCG? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 11:20:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Holy shit that is the worst KB I've ever seen.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 11:21:52 AM EDT
[#22]
Damn!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 11:26:06 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
i am going on a limb and saying this is more than an obstructed bore. that pressure spike was WAYYYYYY above and beyond. You don't have to go out on a limb, just read up ^ +1 Aside from the destroyed barrel extension, the barrel had no visible damage to it. There was no obstruction. The round fired and cleared the barrel. I bet it had a pretty flat trajectory compared to a normally loaded .223
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 11:27:34 AM EDT
[#24]
I was standing 10 feet behing him loading mags. The shot was no different than any other shots. I only looked up because the RO was yelling for assistance.
Parts list. Cav-arms mk2 lower in tan + lower parts kit. Custom trigger pins. Compass lake 18" govt profile douglas premium airguaged stainless steel barrel with matched bolt. Ameetec cam pin, firing pin, firing pin retainer pin, slick side upper receiver. Charging handle USGI 30rd aluminum magazine with Magpul follower, and Magpul magpul in OD green. Miculek brake YHM low profile gas block, gas tube Clark custom forearm, carbon fiber lightweight tube Young mfg bolt carrier. Timney trigger Parts destroyed: upper, lower receivers. BCG: total loss Forearm barrel, gas tube, gas block, muzzle brake, LPK: mag release, bolt release, custom trigger pins, take down pins. charging handle is bent. USGI mag with magpul follower and ODgreen magpul. Parts salvaged: sling, bipod, buffer, buffer spring, selector(safety), timney trigger(maybe I have not tested it yet), ACOG. The target showed 4 hits, the 4th rd KABOOM'D the rifle. There were 26pcs of ammo on the deck after the rifle exploded. A piece of the exploded cartridge is still in the chamber of the barrel. The barrel extension split into 3 major pieces with smaller pieces cutting the left inside forearm. This rifle had just over 3k rds fired. It had been cleaned the evening before, including a full chamber and bore scrubing. He had already fired one stage that day(long range) with no issues at all. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 11:41:24 AM EDT
[#25]
I wonder if the flexability of the polymer helped some with the lower not fragmenting like the upper? kinda like a rubber hull on a hand grenade would really limit fragments.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 11:42:00 AM EDT
[#26]
holy hell
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 12:11:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Lol, I was wondering how we got 700+ views on that thread overnight. Sure enough it got cross-posted here. Cause was a binary pistol/rifle powder charge on a reload. There was no barrel obstruction. My 2nd favorite pic: http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00129-20101226-1008.jpg http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00128-20101226-1008.jpg http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00127-20101226-1007.jpg http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00125-20101226-1007.jpg How did that happen? If it were a Dillon, he would have to adjust the measure, throwing MULTIPLE loads and weighing them. And most likely, the charge bar would have to be replaced, you don't do that with any powder in the measure. Same thing with other brands. This sounds like someone returned the wrong powder to the container. Observation is key to reloading. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 3:25:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: I was standing 10 feet behind him loading mags. The shot was no different than any other shots. I only looked up because the RO was yelling for assistance. From your perspective, do you think a left hand shooter would have been injured more? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 3:41:47 PM EDT
[#29]
TRUE CARNAGE!!!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 3:55:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was standing 10 feet behind him loading mags. The shot was no different than any other shots. I only looked up because the RO was yelling for assistance. From your perspective, do you think a left hand shooter would have been injured more? I wasn't even watching. He was down this short barricade "hallway" on the stage, so no one but the R.O. really saw what happened. It was probably more like 30 feet now that I think of where he was on that stage when it happened. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 3:57:57 PM EDT
[#31]
The smartest people learn from other's mistake, intelligent people learn from their own mistakes and fools repeat the same behaviour over and over again. Let's try to fall into the first two categories here.
Unless it was an intentional duplex load (which I doubt) powder was either left over but not visible in the hopper, or left over but not recognized as being the wrong powder, or the wrong powder was added to the mix by mistake during the loading process. The previous poster was right when he said never have more than one type powder (the one you are using) on the bench at any given time. Duplex loads are mentioned from time to time in reloading forums and they do not get the proper ass chewing they deserve. This is what can happen. Because some yahoo thinks he knows better than the chemists that create this stuff and has tried it without killing himself or others does not make it safe let alone sane. This serves as a message loud and clear to tighten up my vigilance! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 4:09:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Ill say this im gld no one got seriously hurt..one other thing the youngs carrier..for a carrier key that was not staked it stayed on pretty well when everything around it got destroyed.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 4:23:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Considering the damage to the upper I would say that CavArms lower held up remarkably well.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 5:21:00 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
The smartest people learn from other's mistake, intelligent people learn from their own mistakes and fools repeat the same behaviour over and over again. Let's try to fall into the first two categories here. Unless it was an intentional duplex load (which I doubt) powder was either left over but not visible in the hopper, or left over but not recognized as being the wrong powder, or the wrong powder was added to the mix by mistake during the loading process. The previous poster was right when he said never have more than one type powder (the one you are using) on the bench at any given time. Duplex loads are mentioned from time to time in reloading forums and they do not get the proper ass chewing they deserve. This is what can happen. Because some yahoo thinks he knows better than the chemists that create this stuff and has tried it without killing himself or others does not make it safe let alone sane. This serves as a message loud and clear to tighten up my vigilance! The voice of reason. I'm not anal, but I have a strict routine when reloading, part of which is a deep and thorough cleaning of the powder measure and or dispenser when finished or changing powders, including upside down shaking and flashlight inspection. I don't like suprises at the firing line..... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 5:21:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Lol, I was wondering how we got 700+ views on that thread overnight. Sure enough it got cross-posted here. Cause was a binary pistol/rifle powder charge on a reload. There was no barrel obstruction. My 2nd favorite pic: http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00129-20101226-1008.jpg http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00128-20101226-1008.jpg http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00127-20101226-1007.jpg http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/asu174/Pauls%20Rifle/IMG00125-20101226-1007.jpg WOW 
that is crazy indeed |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 7:16:07 PM EDT
[#36]
I want to see what powder that guy used. Obviously the other rounds he has sitting there were most likely made the exact same way.
You have to be real fucking stupid to load rifle rounds with pistol powder. There are only a few pistol powders that even have the consistency of rifle powder. EDIT: The only way I can understand is if there had been a small amount of pistol powder still in the powder measure when he filled it with rifle powder, but I think he would have noticed when he went to set the powder charge weight. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 7:18:54 PM EDT
[#37]
Damn. Sucks about his expensive rifle. I guess it's a small price to pay.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 8:05:19 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
And that is why you need to know what you are doing when reloading I agree, but I'll add that reloading isn't really that difficult or dangerous. The hardest part is PAYING ATTENTION. 25 grains of Bullseye in a .223 case would result in a pretty lousy day. If you follow published loads, you'll be fine. But then, some people can't even make blue box macaroni and cheese correctly. +1 |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 8:15:51 PM EDT
[#39]
I'm impressed that the ACOG apparently made it through unharmed.
I was thinking about buying one anyway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 8:16:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Holy cow. Has anyone seen a barrel extension blown up before this one?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 8:20:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
I want to see what powder that guy used. Obviously the other rounds he has sitting there were most likely made the exact same way. You have to be real fucking stupid to load rifle rounds with pistol powder. There are only a few pistol powders that even have the consistency of rifle powder. EDIT: The only way I can understand is if there had been a small amount of pistol powder still in the powder measure when he filled it with rifle powder, but I think he would have noticed when he went to set the powder charge weight. It's easy to mix fast pistol powders and slower rifle powders. Some have such similar appearance that they would be indistinguishable in a mix. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 8:45:39 PM EDT
[#42]
What I want to know is if this was an intentional duplex round. He had already shot a stage, so was he shooting these same rounds then? Were the first 3 shots prior to this one also duplex loaded? You hear of commercial ammo manufacturers using "blended powders". Are those considered duplex as well? Someone school me on this. Definitely won't be playing around with any intentional duplex rounds here.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 9:37:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
What I want to know is if this was an intentional duplex round. He had already shot a stage, so was he shooting these same rounds then? Were the first 3 shots prior to this one also duplex loaded? You hear of commercial ammo manufacturers using "blended powders". Are those considered duplex as well? Someone school me on this. Definitely won't be playing around with any intentional duplex rounds here. No, these were not intentional. There was a batch of 1000 or so rounds. When they were pulled, there were 4 rounds that had pistol powder mixed in with rifle powder. The person who loaded these rounds screwed up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 10:03:58 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What I want to know is if this was an intentional duplex round. He had already shot a stage, so was he shooting these same rounds then? Were the first 3 shots prior to this one also duplex loaded? You hear of commercial ammo manufacturers using "blended powders". Are those considered duplex as well? Someone school me on this. Definitely won't be playing around with any intentional duplex rounds here. No, these were not intentional. There was a batch of 1000 or so rounds. When they were pulled, there were 4 rounds that had pistol powder mixed in with rifle powder. The person who loaded these rounds screwed up. Who DID reload it? I think we're assuming it was the rifle owner, but your post makes me think it was someone else. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 10:25:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Like other said - never seen a bolt split like that. Never seen a bolt carrier split like that. NEVER seen an exploded barrel extension!!! DAAAAYUM!!!
Never seen anything like this before. Glad the shooter is okay.
Also, it amazes me that people would post in a topic like this and not read the whole damn thing first. Darwin is gonna get their ass, someday.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 10:52:54 PM EDT
[#46]
Expensive reloading lesson. Could've been a lot worse with medical bills or lawsuits from fragging your neighbor.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2011 11:34:07 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Like other said - never seen a bolt split like that. Never seen a bolt carrier split like that. NEVER seen an exploded barrel extension!!! DAAAAYUM!!! Never seen anything like this before. Glad the shooter is okay.Also, it amazes me that people would post in a topic like this and not read the whole damn thing first. Darwin is gonna get their ass, someday. I have. Well, not nearly as dramatic but I have had a case head failure (thin web 1990s era FC American Eagle). Here is the case:  Notice the case head and the flange on the lower part of the case, this is from the chamber chamfer. Now for the bolt:  There is a fine crack in the middle of the bolt, centered in the extractor cut  Also a crack in the 5:00 position Finally, web thickness:  The ones on the left are suspect cases. Webs less than 0.170" are weak, these measured 0.155". The case blew out right above the web. Also not pictured, the magazine was ballooned out, follower, spring and base plate blew out. Load was a moderate (2 grains under maximum) load of AA2520 and a Sierra 80 which had been fine at 1/2 grain more in LC brass. The first three were within 3/4" at 300 yards, the 4th shot which was the KB one hit a few inches lower. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2011 4:51:28 AM EDT
[#48]
Just wow...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2011 6:29:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Makes me want to buy an ACOG!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2011 7:30:00 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Cause was a binary pistol/rifle powder charge on a reload. There was no barrel obstruction. I was going to jokingly post "Did he fill the case up with Bullseye?" as soon as I saw the pics. It's strange to read that it was a BINARY charge - are you saying he MEANT to put those two powders together, or was it an accident? <Nevermind, saw the post above> |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
