Bad AR-15 KABOOM (with CAVARMS lower) - ouch - pics at link & at bottom of page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bad AR-15 KABOOM (with CAVARMS lower) - ouch - pics at link & at bottom of page 1 (Page 1 of 4)

Posted: 4/11/2011 7:57:29 PM EST

Cause was a binary pistol/rifle powder charge on a reload. There was no barrel obstruction.

Shooter is OK; minor cuts; more details and pics at the bottom of page 1 and on page 2.

http://www.arizonashooting.com/v3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=133214

*note that the CavArms lower likely had NOTHING to do with the Kaboom - I only mentioned it because it's the first AR kaboom I've seen with a Cav lower and considering the condition of the remainder of the rifle, I think it held up pretty well. Probably the most destructive AR kaboom I've seen.

Posted: 4/11/2011 8:00:51 PM EST

[#1]

Can't view pics unless you're a member.

Posted: 4/11/2011 8:09:17 PM EST

[#2]

Quoted:
Can't view pics unless you're a member.

Posted: 4/11/2011 8:18:28 PM EST

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Can't view pics unless you're a member.

Posted: 4/11/2011 8:23:56 PM EST

[#4]

Quoted:
Can't view pics unless you're a member.

Yep.

ETA: OP, post pics here and I'll send the ARFcom link to this thread to my buddies who own Cav Arms lowers.

Thanks in advance.

Posted: 4/11/2011 8:36:10 PM EST

[#5]

that I would like to see as well

TAG for update

Posted: 4/11/2011 8:39:37 PM EST

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Can't view pics unless you're a member.

Posted: 4/11/2011 8:40:18 PM EST

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Can't view pics unless you're a member.

This.

Posted: 4/11/2011 8:50:13 PM EST

[#8]

FAIL!

Posted: 4/11/2011 8:54:22 PM EST

[#9]

As a proud owner of a Cav Arms lower, I am 100% sure that the polymer construction had nothing to do with the failure. The shooter was using bad reloads.

Posted: 4/11/2011 9:00:19 PM EST

[#10]

...

Posted: 4/11/2011 9:00:31 PM EST

[#11]

TAG, ya don't hear about this happening everyday!

- Clint

Posted: 4/11/2011 9:13:00 PM EST

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Can't view pics unless you're a member.

Posted: 4/11/2011 9:21:50 PM EST

[#13]

Did it happen in the morning?

Posted: 4/11/2011 9:44:27 PM EST

[#14]

standing by for picks.

Posted: 4/11/2011 10:08:26 PM EST

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Can't view pics unless you're a member.

Posted: 4/11/2011 10:22:58 PM EST

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Can't view pics unless you're a member.

Posted: 4/11/2011 10:50:15 PM EST

[#17]

Quoted:

As a proud owner of a Cav Arms lower, I am 100% sure that the polymer construction had nothing to do with the failure. The shooter was using bad reloads.

With the AR design it's pretty hard for any lower to have anything to do with causing a KB. That said, some lowers may handle the issue better than others. Not to slam the Cav15 as I own three myself.

Posted: 4/12/2011 12:06:43 AM EST

[#18]

Quoted:
As a proud owner of a Cav Arms lower, I am 100% sure that the polymer construction had nothing to do with the failure. The shooter was using bad reloads.

Kabooms are 99% ammo failures. I would like to see how the Cav reacted to said Kb.

Posted: 4/12/2011 12:30:06 AM EST

[#19]

From that forum

Posted: 4/12/2011 12:35:47 AM EST

[#20]

Thats just about the worst AR kaboom I've seen.

Posted: 4/12/2011 12:38:52 AM EST

[#21]

See that gold patina on the bolt and barrel extension? That was the brass case, eroded/vaporized by the 55,000 PSI or so chamber pressure. Actually, only 20,000 PSI is necessary to do that.

I'm going to place blame on a bullet lodged in the bore.

Posted: 4/12/2011 12:39:48 AM EST

[#22]

Thats freakin nasty. I hope the shooter is all right.

Posted: 4/12/2011 12:45:54 AM EST

[#23]

Quoted:

See that gold patina on the bolt and barrel extension? That was the brass case, eroded/vaporized by the 55,000 PSI or so chamber pressure. Actually, only 20,000 PSI is necessary to do that.

I'm going to place blame on a bullet lodged in the bore.

THIS

The barrel was blocked.

Posted: 4/12/2011 1:02:08 AM EST

[#24]

OP got any info on ammo being used when this occured? If not, anyway you can find out?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 4/12/2011 2:06:28 AM EST

[#25]

Looks like the bolt carrier was staked properly

Posted: 4/12/2011 2:08:34 AM EST

[#26]

Thanks for the pics.

Link to this thread forwarded to my buddies who own Cav Arms lowers.

ETA: Oh yea... And Page Two!

Posted: 4/12/2011 3:03:43 AM EST

[#27]

Oops, double tap...see below....<><....

Posted: 4/12/2011 3:05:16 AM EST

[#28]

Quoted:
OP got any info on ammo being used when this occured? If not, anyway you can find out?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I have a couple of Cav Arms lowers and luckily don't think the lower contributed to that kaboom. tagged requesting info on the ammo as well...<><....:)

Posted: 4/12/2011 3:07:10 AM EST

[#29]

Any picks of the barrel? Like to see if there is a buldge.

Posted: 4/12/2011 3:09:01 AM EST

[#30]

Quoted:
OP got any info on ammo being used when this occured? If not, anyway you can find out?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Yeah, any info on why this occurred would be greatly appreciated.

Posted: 4/12/2011 3:22:52 AM EST

[#31]

Wow. The whole fucking BCG just GRENADED and you worry about a polymer lower?

Like any other metal lower could have made a difference..

I wonder how far that left wall of the upper went.. I can see gun parts flying

Posted: 4/12/2011 3:30:42 AM EST

[#32]

Wow, that's nasty.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 4/12/2011 3:45:20 AM EST

[#33]

Holy..... !!! Did someone load that round with black powder?

That's definitely the worst KB I've seen.

+1 the cav lower had nothing to do with this.

Posted: 4/12/2011 4:44:12 AM EST

[#34]

I wasn't insinuating that the Cavarms lower had anything to do with this. The only reason I mentioned it in the thread title was because it was the first AR kaboom I've ever heard of or seen pics of with a Cav lower and had always been curious how one would hold up. This is probably the most devastating kaboom on an AR that I've seen pics of and the lower held up surprisingly well given the appearance of the rest of the rifle.

I have no details of the when/where of this, but that it was likely caused by an over-charged round or one with the wrong powder (eg, not careful when reloading).

Posted: 4/12/2011 5:25:33 AM EST

[#35]

Quoted:

... the lower held up surprisingly well given the appearance of the rest of the rifle.

Actually, I'm quite impressed with condition of that lower!

Posted: 4/12/2011 5:31:11 AM EST

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

... the lower held up surprisingly well given the appearance of the rest of the rifle.

Actually, I'm quite impressed with condition of that lower!

most al lowers end up unusable as well after a kb due to the al bending. i agree that the lower had nothing to do with the kb and held up well.

Posted: 4/12/2011 5:32:44 AM EST

[#37]

Given the case capacity an over charged round hot enough to do real damage means they used the wrong powder. even then I'm not sure you'd get THAT. I'm almost wondering if one round was way too light to give the plugged barrel folks mentioned already. then the next round was sufficiently charged to go kaboom when the pressure spiked due to the plugged barrel.

I agree, that cav arms lower held up pretty well. I really like mine and it's nice to see they aren't any worse than a traditional one in this situation.

Posted: 4/12/2011 5:43:51 AM EST

[#38]

Lol, I was wondering how we got 700+ views on that thread overnight. Sure enough it got cross-posted here.

Cause was a binary pistol/rifle powder charge on a reload. There was no barrel obstruction.

My 2nd favorite pic:

Posted: 4/12/2011 5:47:07 AM EST

[#39]

Quoted:
Given the case capacity an over charged round hot enough to do real damage means they used the wrong powder. even then I'm not sure you'd get THAT. I'm almost wondering if one round was way too light to give the plugged barrel folks mentioned already. then the next round was sufficiently charged to go kaboom when the pressure spiked due to the plugged barrel.

I agree, that cav arms lower held up pretty well. I really like mine and it's nice to see they aren't any worse than a traditional one in this situation.

I agree with this. I know with my reloads that there is no way I can over charge a 5.56 round. Case is almost full, a double charge would have powder all over the bench and would be obvious when seating the bullet. My vote is that they used the wrong powder, or had a bullet lodged in the barrel from the previous under/no charged round.

EDIT: Well now we know the cause....wrong powder

Posted: 4/12/2011 5:47:15 AM EST

[#40]

Quoted:
Cause was a binary pistol/rifle powder charge on a reload. There was no barrel obstruction.

Forgive my ignorance, but does this mean they loaded the rifle cartridge with pistol powder?

Posted: 4/12/2011 5:52:06 AM EST

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Cause was a binary pistol/rifle powder charge on a reload. There was no barrel obstruction.

Forgive my ignorance, but does this mean they loaded the rifle cartridge with pistol powder?

It was a combination of rifle and pistol powder. The rest of the batch was pulled and there were apparently 3-4 other rounds with mixed loads.

For those of you not able to see the other post, the shooter is fine. He got whacked in the face with the charging handle, giving him a fat lip. Minor cuts on his face. His wrist got fragged with carbon fiber/free float tube remains, which were embedded in his skin for a few weeks.

It put things in perspective. I thought I was having a bad match up until that point because of extraction issues. It could always be worse....

Posted: 4/12/2011 5:57:20 AM EST

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Cause was a binary pistol/rifle powder charge on a reload. There was no barrel obstruction.

Forgive my ignorance, but does this mean they loaded the rifle cartridge with pistol powder?

yep

Posted: 4/12/2011 5:58:06 AM EST

[#43]

Now what would have happened if he had a magwell grip?

Posted: 4/12/2011 5:58:52 AM EST

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Cause was a binary pistol/rifle powder charge on a reload. There was no barrel obstruction.

Forgive my ignorance, but does this mean they loaded the rifle cartridge with pistol powder?

It was a combination of rifle and pistol powder. The rest of the batch was pulled and there were apparently 3-4 other rounds with mixed loads.

For those of you not able to see the other post, the shooter is fine. He got whacked in the face with the charging handle, giving him a fat lip. Minor cuts on his face. His wrist got fragged with carbon fiber/free float tube remains, which were embedded in his skin for a few weeks.It put things in perspective. I thought I was having a bad match up until that point because of extraction issues. It could always be worse....

The Good Lord was with that guy. Looks like the bolt carrier was freaky close to getting some face meat. His misfortune serves as a good lesson for the rest of us though.

Posted: 4/12/2011 6:00:58 AM EST

[#45]

Quoted:
Now what would have happened if he had a magwell grip?

That's actually one of the first things we discussed since there was a recent debate on that forum about the merits of using magwell grips. That would have been bad news.

Posted: 4/12/2011 6:10:59 AM EST

[#46]

I didn't even notice this smashed round until now. Top round in the mag?

Posted: 4/12/2011 6:32:55 AM EST

[#47]

That is the worst AR kaboom I have seen. Glad that the shooter is ok.

Posted: 4/12/2011 7:01:51 AM EST

[#48]

Quoted:
Thats just about the worst AR kaboom I've seen.

+1

Posted: 4/12/2011 7:03:32 AM EST

[#49]

And that is why you need to know what you are doing when reloading

Posted: 4/12/2011 7:35:12 AM EST

[#50]

Quoted:
And that is why you need to know what you are doing when reloading

I agree, but I'll add that reloading isn't really that difficult or dangerous. The hardest part is PAYING ATTENTION. 25 grains of Bullseye in a .223 case would result in a pretty lousy day. If you follow published loads, you'll be fine.

But then, some people can't even make blue box macaroni and cheese correctly.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bad AR-15 KABOOM (with CAVARMS lower) - ouch - pics at link & at bottom of page 1 (Page 1 of 4)

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