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Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
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Posted: 2/3/2010 7:45:41 AM EST
I was upstate this weekend, temp was 0-6 in the am when I was shooting.  My colt 6400 was lightly lubed and I used the fa about 4 times in the process of shooting 120 rounds.  I was using federal 55gr ammo.  The stops occured after shooting a mag going to check out the target.  The lube was a little clumpy, kind of grainy.  I know if I used rem oil this problem would of never happened but I didn't and the fa helped.  The lube froze up in the upper, combined with the possible metal contraction caused the bolt not to fully close.

For the record, I tried pushing the bolt forward using my thumb and it worked but the fa was so much easier.



Link Posted: 2/3/2010 7:54:31 AM EST
[#1]
You probably won't use it very much  since it's a Colt, but it's nice to have ..
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 7:58:26 AM EST
[#2]
yea, I mean...sh1t happens. You have to have a way to manually push the bolt forward. If its not a weapon with a cycling charging handle.....GOTTA have a FA in my opinion
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 8:00:37 AM EST
[#3]
Eugene Stoner hated the idea. He said if your bolt didn't close, you had not done proper maintenence and your rifle should be cleaned. The Army made him put it on anyway.
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 8:01:12 AM EST
[#4]
What lube were you using?
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 8:01:31 AM EST
[#5]
You say it wouldn't have happened if you used Rem oil. What lube were you using? CLP?
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 8:16:35 AM EST
[#6]
I thrashed a couple rounds by blindly hitting the FA when I had a stoppage...since then, I dont use it unless I rode the charging handle forward...




Link Posted: 2/3/2010 8:20:12 AM EST
[#7]
Quoted:
I thrashed a couple rounds by blindly hitting the FA when I had a stoppage...since then, I dont use it unless I rode the charging handle forward...


SPORTS

You're supposed to tap the FA after releasing the bolt. If the bolt doesn't go all the way forward then you start from the beginning again.

Link Posted: 2/3/2010 8:23:18 AM EST
[#8]
Quoted:
Eugene Stoner hated the idea. He said if your bolt didn't close, you had not done proper maintenence and your rifle should be cleaned. The Army made him put it on anyway.


that was my argument! All I was thinking when it would not close was what if I had a pack of coyotes or black bear around me, lol.  My new argument is, use the fa when it is needed & then clean it well when you are in the clear.

Btw, I was using ezox synthetic, from the oil can.  

Link Posted: 2/3/2010 8:37:00 AM EST
[#9]
Stoner's argument was sound logic, but sometimes you might be caught without a chance to do maintenance and you need the damn bolt to close - right now! So, we live with it, cuss it and despise it but it's always there patiently waiting to save our asses.
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 8:52:05 AM EST
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Eugene Stoner hated the idea. He said if your bolt didn't close, you had not done proper maintenence and your rifle should be cleaned. The Army made him put it on anyway.


that was my argument! All I was thinking when it would not close was what if I had a pack of coyotes or black bear around me, lol.  My new argument is, use the fa when it is needed & then clean it well when you are in the clear.

Btw, I was using ezox synthetic, from the oil can.  



I don't know anything about ezox synthetic, but all FA arguments aside, if the lube your using can't handle the cold where you're at, I'd opt for a different lube.

Down here in hot 'n humid East Texas, I use mostly generous amounts of CLP.
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 8:58:09 AM EST
[#11]
In dire situations, revert to your secondary.  
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 9:02:46 AM EST
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thrashed a couple rounds by blindly hitting the FA when I had a stoppage...since then, I dont use it unless I rode the charging handle forward...


SPORTS

You're supposed to tap the FA after releasing the bolt. If the bolt doesn't go all the way forward then you start from the beginning again.



I was just thinking SPORTS lol.  

S. slap the magazine
P. pull the charging handle
O. observe the chamber
R. release the charging handle
T. tap the forward assist
S. Sight Shoot and Kill!!

Link Posted: 2/3/2010 9:04:52 AM EST
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Eugene Stoner hated the idea. He said if your bolt didn't close, you had not done proper maintenence and your rifle should be cleaned. The Army made him put it on anyway.


that was my argument! All I was thinking when it would not close was what if I had a pack of coyotes or black bear around me, lol.  My new argument is, use the fa when it is needed & then clean it well when you are in the clear.

Btw, I was using ezox synthetic, from the oil can.  



I don't know anything about ezox synthetic, but all FA arguments aside, if the lube your using can't handle the cold where your at, I'd opt for a different lube.

Down here in hot 'n humid East Texas, I use mostly CLP.


I'm going to a lighter oil also.  The coldest temp. I shot in was in the high 20's, low 30's.  I wasn't prepared for it since it was a last minuet plan, should have thought ahead.  
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 9:57:01 AM EST
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Eugene Stoner hated the idea. He said if your bolt didn't close, you had not done proper maintenence and your rifle should be cleaned. The Army made him put it on anyway.


All I was thinking when it would not close was what if I had a pack of coyotes or black bear around me,

I assure you that's it's much worse when what's around are a number of armed men intent on killing you.

Which is precisely why Mr. Stoner's failure to include some way of manually closing the bolt and his  "argument" were both foolish.
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 11:00:13 AM EST
[#15]
Isnt break free CLP supposed to be good to go in freezinb temps?
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 11:22:58 AM EST
[#16]




Quoted:

You probably won't use it very much since it's a Colt, but it's nice to have ..





That's funny.
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 2:03:31 PM EST
[#17]
I've been using Eezox for about fifteen years in temps down to -10* on many guns including ARs.  The only gun that didn't like it in the cold was a new Sig 210 at about 0*.  Even the Les Baer 1911s were OK with it in the cold.  It is important you use it as directed - apply, let dry and wipe off any excess.  It is possible it got mixed with something else in the gun.  It eventually gets under any other lube or residue that is on the metal and lifts it off.

I have no commercial interest in Eezox.  It is just that it works so well I hate to see it get a bad rap if it is not deserved.

Weaponshield also works well in the cold but does not have the corrosion protection of Eezox.  For guns that may get condensation in hard to reach places I prefer the Eezox.
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 2:07:15 PM EST
[#18]
i love colts

Link Posted: 2/3/2010 2:09:21 PM EST
[#19]
Quoted:

Quoted:
You probably won't use it very much since it's a Colt, but it's nice to have ..


That's funny.


Link Posted: 2/3/2010 2:13:28 PM EST
[#20]
Quoted:
I've been using Eezox for about fifteen years in temps down to -10* on many guns including ARs.  The only gun that didn't like it in the cold was a new Sig 210 at about 0*.  Even the Les Baer 1911s were OK with it in the cold.  It is important you use it as directed - apply, let dry and wipe off any excess.  It is possible it got mixed with something else in the gun.  It eventually gets under any other lube or residue that is on the metal and lifts it off.

I have no commercial interest in Eezox.  It is just that it works so well I hate to see it get a bad rap if it is not deserved.

Weaponshield also works well in the cold but does not have the corrosion protection of Eezox.  For guns that may get condensation in hard to reach places I prefer the Eezox.



I'm with ya brotha,  ezox is amazing stuff.  Could be that I applied too much, forgot to wipe (opse ), or didn't wipe enough off.  I will never stop using it.
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 2:26:17 PM EST
[#21]
What they say about carrying a firearm with you also applies to the FA on an AR:  Better to have it and not need it than to not have it and need it.
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 3:26:50 PM EST
[#22]
Quoted:
Eugene Stoner hated the idea. He said if your bolt didn't close, you had not done proper maintenence and your rifle should be cleaned. The Army made him put it on anyway.


Wasn't the M16 pitched to the Army as a weapon that didn't need cleaning?
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 4:40:07 PM EST
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Eugene Stoner hated the idea. He said if your bolt didn't close, you had not done proper maintenence and your rifle should be cleaned. The Army made him put it on anyway.


Wasn't the M16 pitched to the Army as a weapon that didn't need cleaning?


No, it was pitched as one that needed less cleaning.  And with the IMR powder the test ammo was loaded with, it really did only need a little maintenance now and then.  But the Army changed everything to ball powder, which is sooty and filthy, and therein lay the deaths of hundreds of GIs in Vietnam because Ordnance was pissy about the whole thing.

And Stoner was an engineer (and a very good one), but not a soldier.  He didn't think "worst case" as a matter of course, the way a soldier needs to.  Ideally, the steel-lined, aluminum barrel he designed should have made the gun only 2/3 the weight is is and still have held up, but Ordnance made sure it didn't and multiple-layer barrels don't seem to have been tried ever again.
Link Posted: 2/3/2010 5:13:19 PM EST
[#24]
Eugene Stoner was a Marine in WW II.
Link Posted: 2/4/2010 3:03:08 AM EST
[#25]
Quoted:
Eugene Stoner was a Marine in WW II.


Yes he was.  But when he was acting as a weapons designer, he was thinking like and engineer.  He also applied the rules the USMC instilled in him as givens; religious weapon maintenance was expected in his design.  He just used materials and designs that would take less of that maintenance-and thus expected that the gun would never need help locking the bolt.
Link Posted: 2/4/2010 8:27:20 AM EST
[#26]



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

I thrashed a couple rounds by blindly hitting the FA when I had a stoppage...since then, I dont use it unless I rode the charging handle forward...





SPORTS



You're supposed to tap the FA after releasing the bolt. If the bolt doesn't go all the way forward then you start from the beginning again.







I was just thinking SPORTS lol.  



S. slap the magazine

P. pull the charging handle

O. observe the chamber

R. release the charging handle

T. tap the forward assist

S. Sight Shoot and Kill!!





I did SPRTS




 
Link Posted: 2/4/2010 1:34:50 PM EST
[#27]
Quoted:
Eugene Stoner hated the idea. He said if your bolt didn't close, you had not done proper maintenence and your rifle should be cleaned. The Army made him put it on anyway.


I don't think Eugene Stoner ever carried one into battle either.
Link Posted: 2/8/2010 4:56:35 PM EST
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Eugene Stoner hated the idea. He said if your bolt didn't close, you had not done proper maintenence and your rifle should be cleaned. The Army made him put it on anyway.


Ideally, the steel-lined, aluminum barrel he designed should have made the gun only 2/3 the weight is is and still have held up, but Ordnance made sure it didn't and multiple-layer barrels don't seem to have been tried ever again.

LW Ultralight


Link Posted: 2/8/2010 6:39:26 PM EST
[#29]



Quoted:



Quoted:

I've been using Eezox for about fifteen years in temps down to -10* on many guns including ARs.  The only gun that didn't like it in the cold was a new Sig 210 at about 0*.  Even the Les Baer 1911s were OK with it in the cold.  It is important you use it as directed - apply, let dry and wipe off any excess.  It is possible it got mixed with something else in the gun.  It eventually gets under any other lube or residue that is on the metal and lifts it off.



I have no commercial interest in Eezox.  It is just that it works so well I hate to see it get a bad rap if it is not deserved.



Weaponshield also works well in the cold but does not have the corrosion protection of Eezox.  For guns that may get condensation in hard to reach places I prefer the Eezox.






I'm with ya brotha,  ezox is amazing stuff.  Could be that I applied too much, forgot to wipe (opse
), or didn't wipe enough off.  I will never stop using it.







You had to have had to much on it, or it was mixing with something else.



It functions from +450F to -95F. If to much is applied it will be sticky.
 
Link Posted: 2/8/2010 7:52:45 PM EST
[#30]
Could he have used too little and this caused the problem?
Link Posted: 2/9/2010 3:42:43 PM EST
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Eugene Stoner hated the idea. He said if your bolt didn't close, you had not done proper maintenence and your rifle should be cleaned. The Army made him put it on anyway.


Ideally, the steel-lined, aluminum barrel he designed should have made the gun only 2/3 the weight is is and still have held up, but Ordnance made sure it didn't and multiple-layer barrels don't seem to have been tried ever again.

LW Ultralight
http://www.lothar-walther.com/brcms/bilddaten/bild4494_2.jpg

That's very interesting.  But I was talking about (though I didn't say it explicitly) large scale production guns.

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