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Posted: 10/11/2009 1:59:41 PM EST
I thought this was already settled as someone on here emailed DD and they said :
"Respose from DD: Thank you for your interest in Daniel Defense and our products. We manufacture many of the components in our Lower Reciever Parts Kits. Pretty much the only items that we don't manufacture are the pistol grip and springs. If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to contact me." However, on the m4carbine forum one guy on there, a dealer, says they in fact do not manufacture them in house and only inspect and maybe modify CMT LPKs and repackage them. Who really knows what the answer is? |
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Well, I would put more weight in DD than some guy.
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I would trust DD over a dealer any day. I also heard someone here got a tour of the plant and said most of the LPK was done in house except for a few springs.
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I would only believe what DD says. There are many dealers out there who will tell you anything. Dosn't mean its right, most of its wrong. They are a great company and I would trust any of their products.
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www.twinblades.com
'Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who Do Not.' ~ Thomas Jefferson |
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Originally Posted By mathecb:
I would only believe what DD says. There are many dealers out there who will tell you anything. Dosn't mean its right, most of its wrong. They are a great company and I would trust any of their products. +1 |
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Posted in GD about a month ago.
Originally Posted By rangermonroe: Daniel Defense is making their own LPKs. Yep, I saw the parts coming out of the machine. They were making front take down pins at the time. I peered around and there were also rear take down pins as well. One of the salesmen let it slip that they were making the whole bit in house. |
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"There comes a time in the history of any project when it becomes necessary to shoot the engineers and begin production." unknown
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I'd trust DD. Anyway, why would they lie about something like that?
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Originally Posted By sd_norske:
Posted in GD about a month ago. Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
Daniel Defense is making their own LPKs. Yep, I saw the parts coming out of the machine. They were making front take down pins at the time. Ipeered around and there were also rear take down pins as well. One ofthe salesmen let it slip that they were making the whole bit in house. A couple of eye witness reports. This was not the only one. Actually saw the machines working, and a claim by DD, one of the most respected names in the industry. Their LPKs are made in house. Mosts dealers are Boobs. ETA to put the quote in the right place. I'm a Boob, too. |
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Originally Posted By Dan46n2:
I thought this was already settled as someone on here emailed DD and they said : "Respose from DD: Thank you for your interest in Daniel Defense and our products. We manufacture many of the components in our Lower Reciever Parts Kits. Pretty much the only items that we don't manufacture are the pistol grip and springs. If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to contact me." However, on the m4carbine forum one guy on there, a dealer, says they in fact do not manufacture them in house and only inspect and maybe modify CMT LPKs and repackage them. Who really knows what the answer is? Without even going and looking......I bet I know which dealer it is over there. |
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Whoever it was that said that crap on m4carbine, it was obviously one of their competitors.
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Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
Originally Posted By Dan46n2:
I thought this was already settled as someone on here emailed DD and they said : "Respose from DD: Thank you for your interest in Daniel Defense and our products. We manufacture many of the components in our Lower Reciever Parts Kits. Pretty much the only items that we don't manufacture are the pistol grip and springs. If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to contact me." However, on the m4carbine forum one guy on there, a dealer, says they in fact do not manufacture them in house and only inspect and maybe modify CMT LPKs and repackage them. Who really knows what the answer is? Without even going and looking......I bet I know which dealer it is over there. Yeah, no kidding... DD makes their own parts minus springs (so far as I remember), and that's that! |
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Dealers say lots of things. Doesn't mean they know their head from their ass. I've gotten more bad info from dealers then I think I have gotten good info. Take everything with a grain of salt. Or a whole shaker of salt for that matter.
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I'm guessing that lower parts kits are a lot like the lowers themselves with very few factories actually forging them. The rough forgings then go to the manufacturer who machines the forgings to final tolerances and finnishes them for sale. So, who makes them? The plant doing the actual forging? Or, the people machining and finnishing the product for sale?
Does it really matter? |
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Agreed. It doesn't make sense to do all the machining themselves. I bet they just put the finish on them and call them their own.
Now if these reports of pepole seeing them be made are true, thats cool. It just seems like making the parts 100% in house would be terribly expensive. A pin built to spec is still just a pin. As long as its good quality and built to spec it should be great. |
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Originally Posted By kwrangln:
I'm guessing that lower parts kits are a lot like the lowers themselves with very few factories actually forging them. The rough forgings then go to the manufacturer who machines the forgings to final tolerances and finnishes them for sale. So, who makes them? The plant doing the actual forging? Or, the people machining and finnishing the product for sale? Does it really matter? Yes it does matter very much, read "What parts break in a carbine course" to see that these parts do break and some brand LPKs are much more likely to break than others. |
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Originally Posted By Dan46n2:
Originally Posted By kwrangln:
I'm guessing that lower parts kits are a lot like the lowers themselves with very few factories actually forging them. The rough forgings then go to the manufacturer who machines the forgings to final tolerances and finnishes them for sale. So, who makes them? The plant doing the actual forging? Or, the people machining and finnishing the product for sale? Does it really matter? Yes it does matter very much, read "What parts break in a carbine course" to see that these parts do break and some brand LPKs are much more likely to break than others. OK, so tell me who actually makes the best lower parts kit. Not who sells it, but who makes it. Does DPMS actually have a forge operation up and running for making triggers? Does LMT, CMT, Colt, RRA, etc, etc, etc? My point of "does it really matter" referred to the manufacturer only doing the finnishing and machining vs actually making the part from scratch. I actually would like to know who makes most of the LPK's though, and if the only real difference is the machining and QC done at the manufacturer level. |
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N/M.
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+1 for them making them in house.
I have seen them making parts and was very impressed. Their new factory in Black Creek is very nice, along with the American flag and dedication to a 1/75 soldier. DD is a great company with great people. The only parts they don't make are springs and parts that are stamped (bolt catches, etc.) They also machine their own receivers (upper and lower). |
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Originally Posted By kwrangln:
Originally Posted By Dan46n2:
Originally Posted By kwrangln:
I'm guessing that lower parts kits are a lot like the lowers themselves with very few factories actually forging them. The rough forgings then go to the manufacturer who machines the forgings to final tolerances and finnishes them for sale. So, who makes them? The plant doing the actual forging? Or, the people machining and finnishing the product for sale? Does it really matter? Yes it does matter very much, read "What parts break in a carbine course" to see that these parts do break and some brand LPKs are much more likely to break than others. OK, so tell me who actually makes the best lower parts kit. Not who sells it, but who makes it. Does DPMS actually have a forge operation up and running for making triggers? Does LMT, CMT, Colt, RRA, etc, etc, etc? My point of "does it really matter" referred to the manufacturer only doing the finnishing and machining vs actually making the part from scratch. I actually would like to know who makes most of the LPK's though, and if the only real difference is the machining and QC done at the manufacturer level. Colt |
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"Some dealer said" I wonder if that is the same dealer that sold me counterfeit parts in a Stag bag? I bought them last year and just recently attempted to use them. The parts were the worst I have ever seen. I need to dig through a pile of receipts because I can't remember who was the source of these quality AR15 parts and accessories. I will give Stag Kudos at this point. I sent the fake parts to Stag customer service for inspection. Stag sent me two LPKs and my counterfeit parts in only a few days. 100% customer service from Stag.
I know this is Arfcom, so this thread is worthless without pics. I can only beg that you forgive my Newbness. By now you are thinking I'm posting in the wrong thread. Wrong! This is a DD post. I found myself in the neighborhood of Daniel Defense and thought a nickel tour was in order. We didn't have doughnuts, but they let us in the front door eventually. It was an incredible 2 hour tour of engineering, manufacturing, and sales. I was drooling on the hammer forge cranking out barrels so I didn't notice if they were making LPKs, but I did order two kits. I'll report back which ones I like better when they show up |
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Originally Posted By StevenH:
I would be very impressed if DD were forging raw componenets and then finish machining them in house. It takes alot of work to go from this, raw iron ore pellets http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/TaconitePellet.JPG/800px-TaconitePellet.JPG To the completed individual lower parts http://sttgl.com/30060901/page%20graphics/inv/Bolt%20Catch.jpg A lot of work and a lot of equipment. I would be very impressed if DD is infact taking that huge undertaking on. Nice group of taconite pellets used to use them in my wrist rocket |
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The truth, is the truth.. even if no one believes it..
and a lie.. is a lie...even if everyone believes it |
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Originally Posted By Dan46n2:
Originally Posted By kwrangln:
Originally Posted By Dan46n2:
Originally Posted By kwrangln:
I'm guessing that lower parts kits are a lot like the lowers themselves with very few factories actually forging them. The rough forgings then go to the manufacturer who machines the forgings to final tolerances and finnishes them for sale. So, who makes them? The plant doing the actual forging? Or, the people machining and finnishing the product for sale? Does it really matter? Yes it does matter very much, read "What parts break in a carbine course" to see that these parts do break and some brand LPKs are much more likely to break than others. OK, so tell me who actually makes the best lower parts kit. Not who sells it, but who makes it. Does DPMS actually have a forge operation up and running for making triggers? Does LMT, CMT, Colt, RRA, etc, etc, etc? My point of "does it really matter" referred to the manufacturer only doing the finnishing and machining vs actually making the part from scratch. I actually would like to know who makes most of the LPK's though, and if the only real difference is the machining and QC done at the manufacturer level. Colt The very fact that Colt receivers bear the forge mark of well known forges leads one to believe that they in fact DO NOT forge their own parts, receivers or LPKs or otherwise. Does this detract from their quality? No, not in the slightest. Does it detract from DD's quality if they as well do not forge their own pieces? No, not in the slightest. It is the final product that comes out of the shop that is what we judge. I've often asked what makes Colt better than others, and I specifically ask for something mroe in depth than the simple "QC" answer. Lots of procedures/policies/testing/stuff goes into "QC" and I would like to know if anyone really knows what Colt does that makes their parts battle worthy. I have yet to receive even a response, but I'm gonna file those questions under the accidentally missed ones. What is true, is that Colt shit is great. Its fought in many wars, proved itself. They also have the original TDP (along with some other select mfgs) which is a plus. But does all this stuff that Colt posses detract in anyway from DD, or any other manufacturer for that matter? At first glance, maybe. But in reality it is quite possible for another company to put out a part that meets or surpasses Colt in quality. Lets face it, Colt is good, but to say their parts have been 100% perfect through out history would be wrong. And who's blaming them? Its impossible to do that. I think that this argument needs to end right now. If you want the best you can have now, spend $200 bucks on Colt lpks. If you want a $70 lpk that will in all likelihood be the same, go with the DD. Only time will tell if they are up to (or above) snuff/Colt. |
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Go Braves.
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"Some dealer said" I wonder if that is the same dealer that sold me counterfeit parts in a Stag bag? I bought them last year and just recently attempted to use them. The parts were the worst I have ever seen. I need to dig through a pile of receipts because I can't remember who was the source of these quality AR15 parts and accessories. I will give Stag Kudos at this point. I sent the fake parts to Stag customer service for inspection. Stag sent me two LPKs and my counterfeit parts in only a few days. 100% customer service from Stag.
I know this is Arfcom, so this thread is worthless without pics. I can only beg that you forgive my Newbness. By now you are thinking I'm posting in the wrong thread. Wrong! This is a DD post. I found myself in the neighborhood of Daniel Defense and thought a nickel tour was in order. We didn't have doughnuts, but they let us in the front door eventually. It was an incredible 2 hour tour of engineering, manufacturing, and sales. I was drooling on the hammer forge cranking out barrels so I didn't notice if they were making LPKs, but I did order two kits. I'll report back which ones I like better when they show up Cool! My first double tap. |
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I would be surprised to find out that they are making things like hammers from scratch, are they really cliaming that?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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ar15barrels.com feedback thread
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=109&t=492845&page=1 Had an ARMS mount break? Please read http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=219&t=179975 |
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They ARE making THEIR OWN PARTS IN HOUSE! IM Rangermonroe if you want an eyewitness to it.
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I got in one of their parts kits last week. Regardless of who made it, it looks fine.
Too bad it was missing about half the parts. Still waiting on the replacements to get here. DD was pleasant to deal with on fixing the issue though... I'll give a full report once this issue is concluded. Seriously though, you'd think top QC would catch LPK's missing selector switches, roll pins, buffer plungers and springs...etc. |
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"War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him.The ultimate craft awaiting its ultimate practitioner.That is the way it was and will be.That way and not some other."
Cormac Mccarthy |
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Originally Posted By kilroymcb:
I got in one of their parts kits last week. Regardless of who made it, it looks fine. Too bad it was missing about half the parts. Still waiting on the replacements to get here. DD was pleasant to deal with on fixing the issue though... I'll give a full report once this issue is concluded. Seriously though, you'd think top QC would catch LPK's missing selector switches, roll pins, buffer plungers and springs...etc. That's great, mine should come in today or tomorrow, I'll report back if I got all the parts. |
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Got my DD LPK today...very nice. I'll be putting it on an Armalite lower and eventually mating it to a BCM mid-length upper. Gotta get a different trigger guard though. The only polymer on my carbine will be the grip, handguard, stock and that little black thingy under the extractor...
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Originally Posted By kilroymcb:
I got in one of their parts kits last week. Regardless of who made it, it looks fine. Too bad it was missing about half the parts. Still waiting on the replacements to get here. DD was pleasant to deal with on fixing the issue though... I'll give a full report once this issue is concluded. Seriously though, you'd think top QC would catch LPK's missing selector switches, roll pins, buffer plungers and springs...etc. I received mine this past weekend and haven't even opened it. I better do a quick inventory! |
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Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:
They ARE making THEIR OWN PARTS IN HOUSE! IM Rangermonroe if you want an eyewitness to it. He only said he saw rear takedown pins and front pivot pins being made. DD has already said they don't make their own springs and pistol grips. So it appears it's still up in the air as to how many parts exactly they make. Either way, I'd buy an LPK from them in a heartbeat. |
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Just got my kit in and discovered that there is something not in spec with the trigger, spring, and disconnector. It will not line up with the pin even with the parts out of the gun, this really sucks. I just called them but they are closed.
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It was the spring, had a spare lying around and got it to work, man that's annoying
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Everything else is now in and other than that spring issue the kit was complete, workmanship is good, trigger is crisp, short reset, pull is a little heavy. I would rate the kit as an A- on first impression.
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Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
Originally Posted By 83rdrecon:
They ARE making THEIR OWN PARTS IN HOUSE! IM Rangermonroe if you want an eyewitness to it. He only said he saw rear takedown pins and front pivot pins being made. DD has already said they don't make their own springs and pistol grips. So it appears it's still up in the air as to how many parts exactly they make. Either way, I'd buy an LPK from them in a heartbeat. If i see marty on sunday, I'll ask him for ya. |
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
I would be surprised to find out that they are making things like hammers from scratch, are they really cliaming that? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Hell i heard they mine the iron ore with their bare hands behind the factory. Though its more likely they are finish machining others forgings. |
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I received my first concealed carry permit in 1993. Carried every single day since.
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Edit
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There are machine marks on my hammer, I was expecting better also. I do like the short trigger reset and the pull for me is crisp after working it a few hundred times and oiling. The finish on the trigger looks worn or thinned out and spotty. I rated it an A- but that's compared to most of the kits which I consider subpar that are on the market. For DD it would be a C as their rails are top notch.
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I was expecting each piece to be smooth and individually looked at and worked over, guess I was expecting too much.
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Is this really an issue? Quality parts from a reputable manufacturer, whats to question?
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Looking at the "SS" marks on the hammer tell me that DD either makes LPK's for RRA and Model 1 Sales, as I've received SS-marked hammers in two LPK's direct from those companies, or they source at least some parts from another supplier.
Oh, and I've also seen those hammers in Colt rifles as well. |
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Why would Daniel Defense mark a hammer with SS? Shouldnt it be DD? Unless they are using someone elses hammer forgings.
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I received my first concealed carry permit in 1993. Carried every single day since.
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Most hammers come from one manufacturer, the name escapes me. I think Oly is maybe the only one who does not get them there.
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ar15barrels.com feedback thread
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=109&t=492845&page=1 Had an ARMS mount break? Please read http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=219&t=179975 |
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Originally Posted By dfwgun: Is this really an issue? Quality parts from a reputable manufacturer, whats to question? Curiousity mostly. There is a company with a good reputation that was still claiming to use FN parts even within the past couple of years. Obviously people in the industry are sometimes cautious about saying where they stuff comes from for business reasons |
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ar15barrels.com feedback thread
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=109&t=492845&page=1 Had an ARMS mount break? Please read http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=219&t=179975 |
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STILL havent gotten my replacement parts after nearly two weeks. Havent gotten UPS notification either. Overall, I am not pleased...
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"War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him.The ultimate craft awaiting its ultimate practitioner.That is the way it was and will be.That way and not some other."
Cormac Mccarthy |
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I emailed DD and expressed my opinion on quality of my bolt catch, especially coming from a company who puts out quality stuff. Well, about 20 mintues later I received an email saying they were going to ship me out another one. We shall see how long it takes. So far I'm impressed, with their customer service...I hope they follow through.
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Received my replacement bolt stop yesterday and it looks absolutely perfect. Thanks to DD for their wonderful customer service.
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Any update?
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I had an issue with my rear takedown pin and detent and they shipped replacement parts to my mailbox in little over a week.
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Originally Posted By stfram:
Looking at the "SS" marks on the hammer tell me that DD either makes LPK's for RRA and Model 1 Sales, as I've received SS-marked hammers in two LPK's direct from those companies, or they source at least some parts from another supplier. Oh, and I've also seen those hammers in Colt rifles as well. It says DD on the hammer... |
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