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Posted: 3/4/2009 12:35:36 PM EDT
Here is some pics, of the Norwegian comfiguration of HK416



The rifle gives a "crappy" feel, and the FF looks and feels like somthing that's taken from a softgun, and is not tight.
There have been several ocations of the FF getting so loose during service that the rifle is left useless

The switch on the FSB is for supressor.
This causes problems, as it has a bad habbit of selecting it's own posisson during fire.The gun will not cycle witout supressor if switch is on S

There have been a lot of problems with this rifle, in Norway it freezzes down, during winter use, and in Afgan, it jams sollid in the dust.
Looks like HK tried to invent a sqare weel, and solve a non existing problem.
Most parts is not intercangebly with a mil spec AR rifle, the mag well is altered so it will not take P-mags, or Beta.
HK is not what it used to be...
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 12:41:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2009 1:06:23 PM EDT by MajorAR]
 MMMMMMMM........kay.....That's exactly opposite from everything I've heard from guys running that platform.  Interesting.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 12:47:57 PM EDT
Sounds like the HK cool aid drinkers are gonna be upset.  The OP seems to have real world experience with the 416.  I'm glad I got my LMT CQB gas piston carbine, it's been great ( although never used in anger).
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 12:49:29 PM EDT
well i was jealous when I first saw the pic but after your description im not so sure anymore...
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 1:01:37 PM EDT
Interesting !
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 1:04:04 PM EDT
Oh yeah, I'm sure they're absolute junk
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 1:37:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cooperScout:
Oh yeah, I'm sure they're absolute junk


In my opinion...you ar just right Sir

Recoil is also more "brisk" than in a gas gun, and to complete...the buffer tube is the commercial type.
The original stock is difficult to opperate, the release is almost impossibbe to manipulate with winter gloves.
Norwegian army has for a long time been using HKG3, rifles licence produced in Norway. And the user experience with the 416 goes back less than 1,5 years
Special Forces have been using C8 rifles from Colt Canada, and has not switched to 416.
Army bought 417 rifles to be used for medium range sniping, and theese rifles is also seeing a lot of problems.

As far as I know, no other contries is using the 416 as a general issue


Link Posted: 3/4/2009 1:56:26 PM EDT
Interesting, thanks for sharing the pictures.

What sort of lube and lube regimen are you guys using in the winter and in A-Stan?
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 2:05:56 PM EDT
What excuse does HK have for using commercial receiver extensions?
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 2:08:41 PM EDT
CLP. both places, lightly .
Winter problems is not caused by lube. Internal of rifle gets frozen.
I do not know what the reason for this is, but this problems is significant for the 416
C8 rifles does not have problems like this, if normal precautions is taken
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 2:11:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2009 2:13:14 PM EDT by SSeric02]
Hmmm, so is it the piston parts that are freezing up?  After firing or all the time?


ETA:  yeah, the direct gas system certainly has less parts to foul or break.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 2:12:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Duffy:
What excuse does HK have for using commercial receiver extensions?


Looks like they have put a lot of efford into making the rifle totaly "properiatory" to make sure no other AR parts will fit.

Link Posted: 3/4/2009 2:16:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2009 2:16:50 PM EDT by SSeric02]
Originally Posted By Tanfo:
Originally Posted By Duffy:
What excuse does HK have for using commercial receiver extensions?


Looks like they have put a lot of efford into making the rifle totaly "properiatory" to make sure no other AR parts will fit.




Or the same reason anyone else uses a commercial extension...they're cheaper.

But, you're right, they have a habit of being persnickety like that don't they.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 2:18:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2009 2:20:52 PM EDT by Duffy]
Originally Posted By Tanfo:
Originally Posted By Duffy:
What excuse does HK have for using commercial receiver extensions?


Looks like they have put a lot of efford into making the rifle totaly "properiatory" to make sure no other AR parts will fit.



Yep that's the conclusion I'm drawing too.  Instead of making it compatible with the ubiquitous AR15/M16, they went out of their way to make it different, enough the end user has to be completely dependent on HK for everything.  Maybe this isn't completely true, but it is at least partially true, it could be they want to be able to control the quality and parts, one way to do that is by making things proprietary.  But there is no excuse for the commercial receiver extension, it should be the milspec version so the millions of M4, Vltor and SOPMOD would work with it, in this case I think HK is thinking primarily about their pocket book.

As to the notion that the commercial extension is cheaper, this is ONE thing HK should not bother, HK weapons are expensive, what's the point in cutting corners on a piece of the rifle that would have ensured compatibility with M4, Vltor and SOPMOD already in inventory everywhere?
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 2:19:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SSeric02:
Hmmm, so ii it the piston parts that are freezing up?  After firing or all the time?


Problem showes up, when the rifle is taken in, and out of buildings, and the humidity frezze.
C8 also frezze under theese conitions, but could be made serviceable by a light tap of the butstock against a hard surface.


Link Posted: 3/4/2009 2:21:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tanfo:
Originally Posted By SSeric02:
Hmmm, so ii it the piston parts that are freezing up?  After firing or all the time?


Problem showes up, when the rifle is taken in, and out of buildings, and the humidity frezze.
C8 also frezze under theese conitions, but could be made serviceable by a light tap of the butstock against a hard surface.




Gotcha, Trondheim winters can be a bitch.  Sweating is always a problem in those conditions and should be guarded against if possible, but you're right, it's a fact of life.

But, is it the piston parts that are freezing up and causing it to become more stuck than a C8 would be?

Link Posted: 3/4/2009 2:44:54 PM EDT
keep going on.. You are driving my HK fanboys friends crazy...
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 2:53:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2009 2:54:10 PM EDT by SMGLee]
Originally Posted By Duffy:
What excuse does HK have for using commercial receiver extensions?


Initially the HK M4D run with Tapco stock with commerical tubes....so I guess the commerical tube stuck when the German designed their own stock to comply with the german export law.


Tanfo, any way to get a better look at that rear back up iron sight?

Thanks for the post.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 2:59:24 PM EDT
I have heard of the troubles with the HK417, so am not really surprised.
Nothing worse than being issued a rifle that wont work...
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 3:09:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2009 3:10:56 PM EDT by Duffy]
Originally Posted By SMGLee:
Originally Posted By Duffy:
What excuse does HK have for using commercial receiver extensions?


Initially the HK M4D run with Tapco stock with commerical tubes....so I guess the commerical tube stuck when the German designed their own stock to comply with the german export law.


Tanfo, any way to get a better look at that rear back up iron sight?

Thanks for the post.


Tapco stock with HK markings.  In a world of compromises, HK...
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 3:09:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SMGLee:
Originally Posted By Duffy:
What excuse does HK have for using commercial receiver extensions?


Initially the HK M4D run with Tapco stock with commerical tubes....so I guess the commerical tube stuck when the German designed their own stock to comply with the german export law.


Tanfo, any way to get a better look at that rear back up iron sight?

Thanks for the post.


I was thinking the exact same thing.

Good to see you around Chen!

Link Posted: 3/4/2009 3:12:48 PM EDT
I was going to ask about the rear sight too, but decided I didn't really care
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 3:13:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 3:39:48 PM EDT
And I'm sure the fanboys will be here any sec to start bashing the guy who actually has experience with the 416.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 3:46:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dookie1481:
And I'm sure the fanboys will be here any sec to start bashing the guy who actually has experience with the 416.


Link Posted: 3/4/2009 4:03:09 PM EDT
I must say, that pistol grip looks very comfortable.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 4:26:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dookie1481:
I must say, that pistol grip looks very comfortable.


I can't tell because I've never used one, but it is ugly
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 4:38:45 PM EDT
WOW,  so it looks like all that controlled testing that HK did to prove the 416 was better than the Colt didn't take into account real world conditions in Norway or other cold climates.    The only testing I trust is the real world kind - not some "sales" video put together by the manufacturer.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 5:01:45 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 5:06:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By OrangeLazarus:
WOW,  so it looks like all that controlled testing that HK did to prove the 416 was better than the Colt didn't take into account real world conditions in Norway or other cold climates.    The only testing I trust is the real world kind - not some "sales" video put together by the manufacturer.



Yeah, but I can't believe the Norgies would have adopted it without testing it.  Question is,what testing protocol did they use and why is it now failing?
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 6:07:28 PM EDT
Thank you for posting - interesting to hear.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 6:18:20 PM EDT
Did Norway adopt the 416?
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 6:47:06 PM EDT
interesting.thanks for the pics and intel
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 6:56:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Duffy:
Did Norway adopt the 416?


I dont think they adopted it, I just think they're running a few hundred. Don't qoute me on that, my reading comp has not been on par lately.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 7:17:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Duffy:
Did Norway adopt the 416?


They sure did.  They were testing it in Jan/Feb 2007 when I was there.  I believe the Army put their large order to H&K in Feb that same year.  I read about it the week after I left Rena, Norway.  While in Oslo at the NCO club, I spoke with some of the guys who were testig it at the time.  From what I heard from the soldiers, all reports were favorable but it appears differently now.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 7:32:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Duffy:
Originally Posted By dookie1481:
I must say, that pistol grip looks very comfortable.


I can't tell because I've never used one, but it is ugly


I think that grip and stock are hideous...but maybe they handle well???
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 7:35:05 PM EDT
Dam hope my LWRC don't have the same problem.  I did some of my own artic testing but it sounds your arctic test were more stringent than mine.   My arctic testing just involved putting the LWRC down in the freezer while I was getting some ice cream.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 8:14:15 PM EDT
I am continually amazed that HK is still in business.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 8:20:24 PM EDT
I've had a HK416D issued to me for a little over eight months now and although we don't have artic conditions in Arizona, there hasn't been any problems the other way, with the heat or the dust.  The recoil of the weapon is not as sharp as a AR platform, although we all know the recoil from a AR is not that bad to begin with.  The recoil just seems smoother if that makes any sense.  As for the grip and the stock, both are very comfortable and seem to do the job well.  As I don't wear winter gloves, I haven't had any problems with moving the stock and the way its designed makes for a very good cheek weld at the proper height, at least for me.  

It is very easy to take apart and cleaning is very quick and painless.  The bolt carrier and bolt stay extremelly clean.  As a matter of fact, I didn't bother to clean it until it had over 1500 rounds through it and they wiped clean.  The one thing to be aware of is the front of the weapon where the piston rides gets very hot, to the point where you really don't want to touch it, but then again thats what the rail and the vfg are for.  

All in all I don't have any complaints.  And if any one asks, I was issued a Colt Commando before this one and to tell you the truth, other than the cleaning they are both excellent choices.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 8:47:36 PM EDT
I'll definitely claim to be a fan of Hk, but I will also not dismiss Tanfo's reports of first-hand use of this weapon.

I can say that I'm a bit confused though as I've read conflicting reports.  On one hand we have Tanfo, who obviously has real world use with the 416 and has witnessed a lot of problems with the system.  On the other hand, I have read a lot of other reports from folks in our military that have also put the 416 through the ringer first-hand and give it praise...like Baknblk.

It's really making outside evaluation of the 416 system difficult.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 8:58:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2009 9:05:28 PM EDT by js308]
never mind

Link Posted: 3/5/2009 3:48:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SMGLee:
Originally Posted By Duffy:
What excuse does HK have for using commercial receiver extensions?


Initially the HK M4D run with Tapco stock with commerical tubes....so I guess the commerical tube stuck when the German designed their own stock to comply with the german export law.


Tanfo, any way to get a better look at that rear back up iron sight?

Thanks for the post.


Here you go Mr Lee!

http://hk-usa.com/images/products/mr762/general/mr762_lg_5.jpg




Link Posted: 3/5/2009 4:09:42 AM EDT
HK the Mac of the AR world...........you know very few parts will work with it.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 5:36:50 AM EDT
FINALLY!!! reports that match the same thing we got when we tested the things. I tried to tell everyone these things are 99% hype... but no one ever listens to me.

The 416 is a non-existent fix to a semi-existent problem. matter of fact in our testing we concluded that except in extreme cases the Hk wonder rifle proved less combat effective than a standard colt/FNH M16/M4... when an M16 jams from  dust its not to complicated to get it cleaned out. if a 416 locks down, it does just that... short stroke gas pistons and AR's just don't mix... that's just my $0.02

*this does not reflect the views of the company I work for, only my solely expressed opinion.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 6:17:53 AM EDT
What stupid-assed price is HK charging for those anyway
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 7:33:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 9:15:27 AM EDT
Pics of the rear sight
http://i41.tinypic.com/t5hz5u.jpg
Looks and works quite similar to the Matech
http://i39.tinypic.com/mmg4nt.jpg

And about the frezzing, both piston, and BCG.
Somtimes the weapond will fire, but then as a single shot.

Yes, Norway has adopted the rifle, the specs of the testing I do'nt have, but the desission was taken quite quick.
Other rifles was tested for years.
A whole batch of rifles was also returned to HK, from Rena last fall, most was totaly unserviceable. So their QC in Obendorf is not like it used to be.
Norwegian army have been using HK products for years, and exept for the lack of ergonomics, and their heavy weight. They have always delivered.

Link Posted: 3/5/2009 9:37:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tanfo:
Pics of the rear sight
http://i41.tinypic.com/t5hz5u.jpg
Looks and works quite similar to the Matech
http://i39.tinypic.com/mmg4nt.jpg

And about the frezzing, both piston, and BCG.
Somtimes the weapond will fire, but then as a single shot.

Yes, Norway has adopted the rifle, the specs of the testing I do'nt have, but the desission was taken quite quick.
Other rifles was tested for years.
A whole batch of rifles was also returned to HK, from Rena last fall, most was totaly unserviceable. So their QC in Obendorf is not like it used to be.
Norwegian army have been using HK products for years, and exept for the lack of ergonomics, and their heavy weight. They have always delivered.



that rear sight looks fragile as hell.


I wouldnt blame the QC department for HK's problems.  you can build the best quality parts in the world, but if they are stupidly designed, they arent gonna work.  Its like they hired interns to design that rifle.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 10:05:36 AM EDT
is the ejection port cover made of plastic?

if so....well...they saved a lot of weigth!
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 10:40:20 AM EDT
Yes...plastic
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 10:58:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2009 11:11:09 AM EDT by Cold]
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