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8/15/2019 7:24:18 PM
Posted: 1/8/2005 1:45:46 PM EDT
Worth the money? $108 a good price? Alternatives?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:00:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 2:01:05 PM EDT by nater]
I have heard good things about their trigger, no personal experience however.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:19:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 2:19:58 PM EDT by y4m4]
I put some of the JP Reduced power springs in my trigger and it made it very light. Much nicer feeling than the stock ones. Well spent 10 bucks.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:22:18 PM EDT
I have the JP in both of my ar15's

great triggers, do require some fitting, but the instructions explain it very well.

THe ar's bump very easily with the jp's too.

Imho, they are worth the money.

TXL

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:41:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 2:43:59 PM EDT by Eclipsester]
i have JP in my ar. worth every penny..

you might need blue-loctite for the adjustable screws (i learned from this site)

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:09:20 PM EDT
I have a JP as well and it has no creep and breaks like glass. Tigthened my groups up a lot.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:29:07 PM EDT
I have like 5 or 6 JP triggers, all installed by JP, including the one in my CTR-02.

They are a great trigger for action shooting.

I find that for precision shooting, I can make out some "roll" as the sear releases. I don't get this roll on my good 2-stage triggers.

YMMV.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:11:23 PM EDT
Listen to Zak.
That said, I will also add that my buddy and I installed the JP trigger group in his colt and we did a noticable poorer job than the factory install on my JP-15 and the other 2 JP's I have shot. HOWEVER, JP now offers their trigger as a modular drop in group, so that may take care of the "smithing" requirement.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:18:38 PM EDT
The JP trigger is great. I use it for IPSC on my AR15 race-rifle. I reccomend using the standard hammer spring for shooting anything with a millitary primer.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:47:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HK_Shooter_03:
The JP trigger is great. I use it for IPSC on my AR15 race-rifle. I reccomend using the standard hammer spring for shooting anything with a millitary primer.



I have a question.
why can't use their hammer spring? is it bad or does it make any difference(s)?

thanks..
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:50:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 6:51:15 PM EDT by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By Eclipsester:
I have a question.
why can't use their hammer spring? is it bad or does it make any difference(s)?

thanks..



JP hammer springs are low power springs.... This give a better trigger pull/break with lower weight. Military primers are typically harder than commercial ammo primers. And while most will never have a problem with that at all, it can happen. On a gun not used in law enforcement or personal defense, it is ajust fine... will just be a light strike. I used to lighten my hammer springs in a similar fashion, until I got a batch of Q3131A with hard primers.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:54:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Eclipsester:
I have a question.
why can't use their hammer spring? is it bad or does it make any difference(s)?

thanks..



JP hammer springs are low power springs.... This give a better trigger pull/break with lower weight. Military primers are typically harder than commercial ammo primers. And while most will never have a problem with that at all, it can happen. On a gun not used in law enforcement or personal defense, it is ajust fine... will just be a light strike. I used to lighten my hammer springs in a similar fashion, until I got a batch of Q3131A with hard primers.



Will it change my trigger pull (heavier) or just about the same? If it is then I will put my stock hammer spring back in.

thanks alot FALARAK
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:59:06 PM EDT
I shoot a lot of XM193 and milsurp (SA surplus, IMI) and I've never had a light primer strike with any of my 4# JP triggers.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 7:06:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:
I shoot a lot of XM193 and milsurp (SA surplus, IMI) and I've never had a light primer strike with any of my 4# JP triggers.



I agree. I never had a single light strike... even on 1000's of Q3131A, until this one lot I got, then it was like every 10th round. And I have heard the lighter JP springs are still heavier pushing the hammer than the "15 minute" trigger job where you clip a hammer spring leg to lighten the weight of the spring..... but I have never measured them.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 7:07:07 PM EDT
Anyway, if you use JP springs with a stock hammer, you WILL have ignition problems.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 7:12:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:
Anyway, if you use JP springs with a stock hammer, you WILL have ignition problems.



I was thinking about order a "JP Speed Hammer " but my local gunsmith told me it won't do any better. is it true? sorry i ask a lot of question already..

thanks
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 7:17:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 7:19:50 PM EDT by Zak-Smith]
The JP Speed hammer is just a lightweight hammer. If you run it with JP's heavier springs (around 4#), I don't think you'll have ignition problems ever. If you run it with JP's lighter (around 3#), it's possible you might have some like FALARAK was talking about.

ETA: My CTR02 has the lighter hammer spring, for about a 3# pull. I've never had a problem with it, but JP does not recommend it for duty. My other lowers, on the 6.8SPC, MRP, lightweight RRA, and my AR10 have the 4# spring and have never had a problem with ignition.

A friend of mine had a problem using the JP springs with his stock Bushmaster hammer. It makes sense. The large mass of the original hammer cannot be accelerated fast enough by the lighter springs, but a lighter hammer can accelerate to the right speed. He lopped off the extra mass and it started working again.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 12:51:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Eclipsester:

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:
Anyway, if you use JP springs with a stock hammer, you WILL have ignition problems.



I was thinking about order a "JP Speed Hammer " but my local gunsmith told me it won't do any better. is it true? sorry i ask a lot of question already..

thanks



If you are thinking of using the JP hammer with the stock trigger, it won't work. You can use the JP trigger with a stock hammer, but not the other way around.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 1:14:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 1:42:29 AM EDT by Matth3wdean]
DUPE

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 1:23:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Matth3wdean:

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:
I find that for precision shooting, I can make out some "roll" as the sear releases. I don't get this roll on my good 2-stage triggers.

YMMV.



When you say you can make out some "roll", is this in the two stage or single stage JP trigger?

What do you mean by "good 2-stage triggers"?

Matt Carper




To answer the first question, JP does not make a two stage trigger. So I have to assume that Zak is refering to the Single Stage.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:59:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 6:03:56 AM EDT by y4m4]
I had one FTFire(Wolf, does that even count =P) with the springs installed. Maybe I'll try the stock hammer spring. I'm a little apprehensive about it onle because the "15-minute trigger job" page warns against "Caution: DO NOT modify the Trigger Spring without also modifying the Hammer Spring as
described." But thats just the noob in me.

I don't think their Speed Hammer would change anything. momentum=mass*velocity so a lighter hammer moving faster will have around the same momentum as a heavier one moving slower. Not sure if thats how a hammer works but that seems like the idea.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 6:07:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Eclipsester:
i have JP in my ar. worth every penny..

you might need blue-loctite for the adjustable screws (i learned from this site)




It was red loctite that was recommended. I locked the screws with red.
BTW the trigger feels NICE!
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:24:24 AM EDT

To answer the first question, JP does not make a two stage trigger. So I have to assume that Zak is refering to the Single Stage.


I assumed Zak was comparing the Jewell or KAC Two Stage triggers to the JP Single Stage. I love my JP trigger, but, now that the military has put the KAC Two Stage into service on the SPRs, we may need to reconsider the suitability of Two Stage triggers for service/self defense use. I don't mean here. I would NEVER DREAM of highjacking your thread.



Originally Posted By y4m4:

I don't think their Speed Hammer would change anything. momentum=mass*velocity so a lighter hammer moving faster will have around the same momentum as a heavier one moving slower. Not sure if thats how a hammer works but that seems like the idea.



I believe it is the "sharpness" of the impact that ignites a primer as opposed to the total force. This is demonstrated when I accidentally but thoroughly crush primers in my reloader. No ignition.
The kenetic energy formula seems more applicable to primers. 1/2 mass times the square of the velocity.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 12:52:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 12:53:48 PM EDT by Zak-Smith]

Originally Posted By atrdriver1:

To answer the first question, JP does not make a two stage trigger. So I have to assume that Zak is refering to the Single Stage.

I assumed Zak was comparing the Jewell or KAC Two Stage triggers to the JP Single Stage. I love my JP trigger, but, now that the military has put the KAC Two Stage into service on the SPRs, we may need to reconsider the suitability of Two Stage triggers for service/self defense use. I don't mean here.


Sorry, yes, I meant my JP SS triggers have some roll.

I have a WOA-tuned RRA 2-stage now in my AR10 (as of this week) and an old RRA 2-stage normally in my 6.8SPC. The old RRA 2-stage is fully broken in and totally reliable with thousands of rounds through it. There's absolutely no creep or roll.

I had considered the KAC but at $300 with limited availability, it was ruled out.

ETA: regarding hammer velocity, remember that a heavy hammer with light springs will have much longer lock time than with strong springs, a lighter hammer with the same springs, or a lighter hammer with heavier springs.

-z

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:07:59 PM EDT
Thanks for the info fellers.

ZAK, for a mostly plinker maybe one day home defense what would you recommend? Not sure if I want to spend the money but considering it. How much slack is in the 2-stage RRA? I don't care for slack.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:25:50 PM EDT
all i did was clean up my stock srping's, cut the hammer.
shoot very well with stock part's.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:40:36 PM EDT
What did you use to cut the hammer?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:38:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigkracka:
ZAK, for a mostly plinker maybe one day home defense what would you recommend? Not sure if I want to spend the money but considering it. How much slack is in the 2-stage RRA? I don't care for slack.


For a H.D. or plinker, I'd just stick with a stock military trigger, if you have one that's halfway decent. The only one I have left (going in my "GIFFMAN" build soon!) feels like a nice DA trigger pull, but in about 0.1" trigger movement.

For a precision rifle, I really like to have a 2-stage trigger. The whole point of the first stage is that it's take-up (what you call "slack", I think). Then it stops right at the 2nd stage and there's no more movement until it breaks.

Take-up in almost any trigger design can be a reliability feature. In some triggers that are adjusted for NO take-up, if some crap gets in there, it can physically block the trigger from moving forward enough in reset to catch again. This is a fairly common failure mode in autopistols which have their trigger overtravel screw in too far.

Back to your question, if you don't like 2-stage triggers and don't want a stock military trigger, the JP single-stage with the 4# spring kit might be what you're looking for. JP recommends them for "duty". Mine have been 100% reliable.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 4:50:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:
if you don't like 2-stage triggers and don't want a stock military trigger, the JP single-stage with the 4# spring kit might be what you're looking for. JP recommends them for "duty". Mine have been 100% reliable.

That's what I'm looking for, thanks.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 6:02:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:
The JP Speed hammer is just a lightweight hammer. If you run it with JP's heavier springs (around 4#), I don't think you'll have ignition problems ever. If you run it with JP's lighter (around 3#), it's possible you might have some like FALARAK was talking about.

ETA: My CTR02 has the lighter hammer spring, for about a 3# pull. I've never had a problem with it, but JP does not recommend it for duty. My other lowers, on the 6.8SPC, MRP, lightweight RRA, and my AR10 have the 4# spring and have never had a problem with ignition.

A friend of mine had a problem using the JP springs with his stock Bushmaster hammer. It makes sense. The large mass of the original hammer cannot be accelerated fast enough by the lighter springs, but a lighter hammer can accelerate to the right speed. He lopped off the extra mass and it started working again.




do you think i should order a speed hammer and 4# spring? i have a jp trigger 3# hammer spring with stock hammer. i dont want to have any problem to my ar.

thanks
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:08:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Eclipsester:
do you think i should order a speed hammer and 4# spring? i have a jp trigger 3# hammer spring with stock hammer. i dont want to have any problem to my ar.


As I said before, I would not use the JP 3# springs with a stock hammer. I've seen and heard of too many problems with this combination, not to mention the lock time is super long (the time between when you pull the trigger and the primer is ignited).

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:15:20 PM EDT
I can say my JP Enterprises installation resulted in an incredibly tight trigger. It takes up just enough to let you get the feel of the trigger, then breaks at 3 1/2# every time, like clockwork.

I did the "kit" install, red Lok-Tite and and all, and I am amazed at how it transformed my rifle: it is so much easier to be accurate from the bench or off-hand because I'm no longer fighting a *&$#@! factory trigger.

I found it money very well spent.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:22:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:

Originally Posted By Eclipsester:
do you think i should order a speed hammer and 4# spring? i have a jp trigger 3# hammer spring with stock hammer. i dont want to have any problem to my ar.


As I said before, I would not use the JP 3# springs with a stock hammer. I've seen and heard of too many problems with this combination, not to mention the lock time is super long (the time between when you pull the trigger and the primer is ignited).




thanks for your infor. i really appreciate your help.
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