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Posted: 11/4/2003 9:37:10 PM EDT
Thanks for all the info in the original post guys. Another spin on the original question now that that question has been answered. Would it still be illegal to add the mag if the bayo and the launcher were cut off? Hope this question is of value to others also.....
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 4:02:22 PM EDT
[#1]

Quoted:
If they were thoroughly removed, this would probably be legal, but again, since none of those mags are really worth a damn, its sort of a waste.  I like to enjoy these historical firearms for what they are, not turn them into something they are not and were not made to be.  Besides, with a little practice you can get real fast with stripper clips.



Ditto.  2 of the 3 SKS carbines I have were abused in this manner.  Luckily the previous bubba owner only lost the original fixed 10rnd mag & didn't do any butchery to the metal (30rnd POS duckbill pulled off poste-haste & pitched).  It sucks having an all # matching rifle except for the mag (one is a circa '57 Sino-Soviet ) because some dufus tried to make his SKS into something it's not.  

IMNSHO:If you want an AK, buy one, don't fubar a SKS into a halfassed AK wannabe.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 11:58:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Well...OK then..I'll pass this info on to my friend at work and let the hack job begin. I was not familiar with the duck bill mags... I did know a guy a while back that had one on his rifle and he said he never had a problem with it. I have a Norinco carbine that was designed to use the AK mags. Shoots like a banchee. No bayo or other scarry features on it when I bought it. I was thinking it would be ok to add the mag if the other stuff was removed. He bought it cheap and just wants a blaster for the cabin to blaze away with and not as a collector item...I kinda talked him out of an AK cause I think the SKS is more accurate and better made than a cheap AK. He could have bought three of the SKS's for the price of a SAR-1 hunk at the last gun show!!! Also the cheap AK's arn't cheap anymore......Thanks again guys!
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 10:47:33 AM EDT
[#3]
Ok, here's the problem.

There are two major federal laws that impact the SKS.   The  first is the 1994 AW Ban that says any gun with a detachable magazine cannot have more than one other "evil" feature.

The second is the more difficult.  That is the 922(r) prohibition on assembling from more than 10 of certain specified imported parts a rifle prohibited from importation.

SKS's with detachable magazines are prohibited from importatin.

Ergo, the BATF has said that if you reconfigure an otherwise legal SKS rifle into one that will accept detachable magaines (including by removing the original magazine so as to allow use of a duckbill), then you have unlawfully assembled a rifle "banned from import", the total parts content of which exceeds the 10 or less specified in the law.

Right now, there are not enough "US made" replacement parts to allow one to get around this problem.  So, don't do it.  

EDITED TO ADD:    With the cheap and plentiful SAR1's available, this really shouldn't be an issue anymore.   SKS rifles are fun, functional and reliable with the fixed 10 round mag.  They are finicky, illegal, and unreliable with duckbills.  Seems to me that if detachable hi-cap is your goal, there's an SAR1 in your future.  
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 1:50:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks you Gonzo, that clarifies things alot and I'm sure would be of help to all concerned.  That would then make this mod only doable on a pre 94 import sks which leaves only certain norinco or Russian products as the effective date would not be the date of manufacture, but the date of import into this country.
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 3:46:33 PM EDT
[#5]
Even though I have a strong dislike for butchered SKS's why would a detatchable mag SKS be prohibited from import while the thumbhole AK style (ROMAK-1, 2 & 3, etc)& the Saiga are OK?  The only issue I can see is the bayonet lug.  A SKS that took detatchable mags that didn't have a bayonet lug should be just as legal to import as a ROMAK, Saiga or the neutered SVD clone (no bayonet lug or FH).
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 6:36:24 PM EDT
[#6]
The only real clarity will come in the form of a letter from the ATFE technical branch once someone asks them.  In truth alot has to do with the fact that Gang bangers were getting chinese rifles in the late 80s and early 90s leading to discrimination against them.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 12:29:41 AM EDT
[#7]
Thanks again guys for the input...I have informed him of the implications of altering his SKS and he is aware of his pending doom and a lifetime in hell for doing so....Hopefully the Feds won't raid his secluded cabin in the boondocks...course who knows about that...sounds like something the feds might waste a rediculously huge amount of tax payer money doing. Although I would never risk losing MY right to gun ownership inforcing a law regarding adding a terrifying high capacity mag.to a 50 Y.O. military curio rifle (of which there are millions)ranks right up there with fudging on a Salvation Army donation voucher for your taxes and etc... May God save him....he's been warned.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 5:45:25 PM EDT
[#8]
Someone HAS asked the BATF lately:


Dear Sir or Madam:

I am writing to request clarification regarding ATF’s current legal stance regarding the use of detachable magazines in SKS Carbines. I own several SKS Carbines and desire to know as accurately as possible the legal status of these. In general, your previous responses have been helpful. Despite these, I am still left with unanswered questions regarding 18 U.S.C. 922(r):

The “Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide” (2000 edition) contains a list of characteristics which would identify a semiautomatic rifle as not suitable under the sporting purposes test for importation in 18 U.S.C. 925(d). These characteristics include “the ability to accept a detachable magazine, folding/telescoping stocks, separate pistol grips, ability to accept a bayonet, flash suppressors, bipods, grenade launchers, and night sights. The reference guide then mentions that any of these military features, other than the ability to accept a detachable magazine, would make a semiautomatic assault rifle non-importable. Thus in and of itself a detachable magazine is not a prohibited feature.

Further, a letter from ATF was printed in the NRA magazine, American Rifleman, May 1994, p.44. That letter provided guidance to SKS owners and has since achieved wide circulation. It commented that the “following modifications of an SKS type rifle would not be a violation of Section 922(r)…replace the fixed magazine with a detachable magazine. This modification may be done provided the bayonet mount is completely removed from the rifle.” Thus, it would appear that as late as 1994, detachable magazines were allowed on SKS Carbines if no other military features were present.

I further understand that in April 1998, the “Department of The Treasury Study on the Suitability of Modified Semiautomatic Rifles” resulted “in a finding that the ability to accept a detachable large capacity magazine originally designed and produced for a military assault weapon should be added to the list of disqualifying military configuration features identified in 1989.” The study referred to such magazines as “large capacity military magazines”, and later seemingly enumerated these as “a detachable large capacity magazine (e.g., more than 10 rounds) that was originally designed and produced for one of the following military assault rifles: AK47, FN-FAL, HK91 or 93, SIG SG550, or Uzi.” It is notable that magazines for SKS carbines are not mentioned.

The type of detachable magazine available for use in standard SKS Carbines is the “duckbill-style”. “Duckbill-style” magazines are not in any way interchangeable with the AK47-style magazines with which some Chinese SKS Carbines were imported. To the best of my knowledge, the “duckbill-style” magazine has never been in military use in any nation. Thus despite the fact that these magazine are available in capacities greater than 10-rounds, it would seem that the “duckbill-style” magazine is not a “large capacity military magazine”

In view of the foregoing, I have two questions:

1) Is adding “duckbill-style” detachable magazine to a standard SKS Carbine which has no military features a violation of 18 U.S.C. 922(r)?

2) If this modification is a violation, why is this so? Please make reference to any additional material that would help to illuminate this matter, especially since the “duckbill-style” detachable magazine does not seem to be a LCMM.

I sincerely appreciate your efforts in responding to this letter.



Their response:



Dear [sir]:

This refers to your letter to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), Firearms Technology Branch, dated September 24,2003, asking about the modification of an SKS rifle to permit acceptance of a detachable "duckbill-style" ammunition magazine.

Title 18, United States Code (U.S.C.), Chapter 44, Section 922(r), states, in part, that it shall be “unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under Section 925 (d) (3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes….”

Currently, SKS rifles capable of accepting a large capacity ammunition-feeding device are prohibited from importation. Therefore, modifying an SKS to accept a large capacity ammunition-feeding device would be a violation of 922 (r).

We thank you for your inquiry and trust the foregoing has been responsive.

Sincerely yours,

Sterling Nixon
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch

Link Posted: 11/16/2003 6:05:15 AM EDT
[#9]

Even though I have a strong dislike for butchered SKS's why would a detatchable mag SKS be prohibited from import while the thumbhole AK style (ROMAK-1, 2 & 3, etc)& the Saiga are OK? The only issue I can see is the bayonet lug. A SKS that took detatchable mags that didn't have a bayonet lug should be just as legal to import as a ROMAK, Saiga or the neutered SVD clone (no bayonet lug or FH).



Two reasons the rifles you mention are "ok," I would suspect.  First, the Siaga's do not "accept" large capacity ammo feeding devices.  They accept those lame 5 round mags.   Second, as to the others, they have "won" the 10 or less game.  In other words, just like the SAR-1 AK clones, those rifles are assembled stateside with enough US-made duplicate parts (fire control, furniture, etc.) so as to allow compliance with Section 922(r).  
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 12:53:59 AM EDT
[#10]
I'm assuming when you say "duckbill" magazines you're referring to detachable mags, what about those fixed 20's with the star mark, chinese made? Non-detachable........legal?
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 7:36:01 AM EDT
[#11]
I spoke with ATF this morning.  The 20 round fixed magazines are fine.  The key to them is that the magazine larger than 10 rounds must be fixed to the rifle in the same manner as the original.  That is, you must have to remove the trigger gaurd in order to remove the magazine.  The duckbill mags are in fact illegal to fit to a rifle that was not importable with a removeable mag, as a guide, that would be any rifle that did not have the bayo lug ground off or those after the 1994 law.  In short, if your rifle did not come with a duckbill mag and you can't prove it had one prior to the import restrictions, don't add one now.
Link Posted: 12/31/2003 6:35:25 PM EDT
[#12]
So let's just look at a theoretical scenario...

Let's say that I bought an SKS back in 92-93 time frame, which had the bayonet. Then I added a folding stock. Then I took off the fixed mag and got some of the duckbills. All this was done in 93. Does it have to be undone now (after 922r), or is it grandfathered?
Link Posted: 2/4/2004 6:50:16 PM EDT
[#13]
I gotta say...this whole thread is depressing.  I was pretty happy that after making several modifications to my Russian SKS, I took it to the range and had a very pleasant experience.  I even found the crock of gold--30 round detach mags that WORKED.  As in two failure to feeds in 500 rounds fired.

Now I get back to my computer and read this thread to find out that I've got an illegal gun?  Jeez.  I may be guilty of Frankensteining an SKS (I still have the original everythings except the bayonet lug), but now I've gotta keep a reliable and functional rifle buried in a closet (or change it back to its fixed 10-round mag--not what I want right now).

Oh well, at least I got it to shoot straight.  The Williams peep sight is nice on the eyes.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 7:35:13 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
So let's just look at a theoretical scenario...

Let's say that I bought an SKS back in 92-93 time frame, which had the bayonet. Then I added a folding stock. Then I took off the fixed mag and got some of the duckbills. All this was done in 93. Does it have to be undone now (after 922r), or is it grandfathered?



That's the question I want answered as well!!!
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 4:37:13 PM EDT
[#15]
So is my1951 Russian SKS legal? I have duckbill SKS mags. I removed the bayonet lug, bought a "Made in the USA"  Tapco gas piston, Tapco operating rod, Choate stock and handguard, and Fl. Precision trigger and hammer. I've beat the "ten or less game" with these "Made in the  USA" installed parts. I also have a model D or M bolt that allows the mags to be remove when the bolt is closed. And I'm using USA brand mags supposedly made in the USA. Dont want to take a chance on breaking the law. I have all the orginal rifle parts and paper work, and the rifle was purchased in '93. I got all my info reading BATF letter from others posted on "Survivors SKS Board." A great site for SKS owners.
Link Posted: 5/17/2004 12:57:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 5/17/2004 7:30:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Ok I just got a Yugo....it came with a book that shows the fireing group from when it was built.  It is also date(the book) in 2 spot's.  One is the shoot group the other is a line in the begining saying it was manufactured on 12 vi 1989.  So my question..... this would be a preban right? so I can add a feature or two?



Link Posted: 7/20/2004 7:50:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Yeah, I thought the ban had to do with rifles made after '94... Hmmmmm....
Link Posted: 7/20/2004 8:22:50 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:
I'm assuming when you say "duckbill" magazines you're referring to detachable mags, what about those fixed 20's with the star mark, chinese made? Non-detachable........legal?



The Fixed 20s are legal or so I was told by some sources I trust , the only problem is that they suck .
I bought a star branded 20's for a Chinese . The follower in the 20 took some creative tweaking to get it not to scrape , when I finally got it working right the spring broke . After some searching I found a suitable replacement and it worked fine for a month before a feed lip cracked and it puked 15 rounds into the air when I tried to clear what I thought was a double feed .

So I did the only thing I could do ............ I popped the trigger group , removed the 20 and threw it downrange and hand fed singles to shoot the shit out of it
Link Posted: 7/20/2004 8:35:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Can't you fix it to accept plain old AK mags?? With out the duckbill...
Link Posted: 7/27/2004 2:44:58 AM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:
[So I did the only thing I could do ............ I popped the trigger group , removed the 20 and threw it downrange and hand fed singles to shoot the shit out of it



I had the same experience with the one that I tried.  Just about the time I got it to work reliably the follower broke in half.  I understand it's a crap shoot with these.  Some people have no problems with them at all.
Link Posted: 7/27/2004 4:03:33 PM EDT
[#22]
I thought they could have up to 2 of the evil features. A bayo and detachable mags. The same way an AR just has pistol grip and detachable mags. Plus these guns were made before the ban. I can use preban 30's in my new Bushmaster. Why is it different for an SKS?
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 11:14:42 AM EDT
[#23]
Ok so no one in here likes the Duck bill mags?Heck I have shot many of them and all worked great except the Cobray plastic 30rd ones.Just about everyone I have seen looked fairly well made and they seem to work better in chinese sks more than others.
Just about everyone I have seen in Pawn shops and gun shows had a 30rd mag with it.I would venture to say that the federal goverment doesnt really care about them.That said I stiil wouldnt be out on the range with a bunch of cops or federal boys and jerk one out to show it off!
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:12:13 PM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:
I thought they could have up to 2 of the evil features. A bayo and detachable mags. The same way an AR just has pistol grip and detachable mags. Plus these guns were made before the ban. I can use preban 30's in my new Bushmaster. Why is it different for an SKS?hr


Because SKSes with detachable mags are banned from importation, and popping one on an SKS without replacing enough foreign parts with US-made ones is a violation of 922(r).
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:12:00 AM EDT
[#25]
For anyone with an SKS with a folding stock and a detachable mag from before the ban you must have proof you bought the rifle, the stock and the mags and had it assembled that way before the 94 ban went into effect to be grandfathered. Do you have all the receipts dated before 9/94? and a picture of you holding the assembled rifle with a newpaper showing the date before the 94 ban?Or maybe you know a notary who could stamp something saying it was assembled that way before 9/94. I think that would be the only way around the 922r ban. And I still haven't gotten a definite conformation on that from the BATF, there might not be a grandfather clause for it at all. Just be smart, buy and install the US parts like I did.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 8:55:55 AM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:
For anyone with an SKs with a folding stock and a detachable mag from before the ban you must have proof you bought the rifle, the stock and the mags and had it assembled this way before the 94 ban to be grandfathered.



The '94 ban went away last month, so it's a nonissue.  The only proof of assembly dates needed now are if you had an SKS with a detachable mag and/or folding stock assembled before 11/90 (when import of such rifles were cut off). And even so, if you replace enough foreign parts with US parts, you don't have to worry about this, either.


Do you hasve all the receipts and a picture of you holding the rifle with a newpaper showing the date before the 94 ban? I think that would be the only way around the 922r ban.


I've seen the newspaper idea before, but it doesn't mean anything.  Just because someone took a picture of you with a '94 newspaper doesn't actually mean that the picture was taken in 1994 - could've been yesterday, for all we know.  (The reason it works for hostages is because it provides living proof as of the morning the paper was published.)

The only real way around 922(r) is, of course, to replace enough foreign-made parts with US-made versions in order to have the gun considered as domestic.  Once that's done, 922(r) no longer applies.

The only two ways I can think of to prove that a gun was built in a certain configuration as of a specific date are to either type up the configuration and date with some sort of signed statement stating so and have it notarized, or take the parts to a gunsmith, have him assemble it, and keep the receipt as proof.   Something we'll have to keep in mind if Kerry gets elected.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 6:19:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Okay, I am still not understanding this.  I have a Yugo 59/66, everything original on it.  Now, the other day I bought a non-detachable 20 round (i guess it's a duckbill mag?) and put it on there.  So is it or is it not illegal now?  thanks.

-mark
Link Posted: 11/4/2004 5:00:03 PM EDT
[#28]
I have a cousin with an SKS of (to me) unknown make and manufacture. He has a mag adapter that allows the use of removable 30 round mags (not sure if it's a duckbill or not. This is my first time in the SKS forums, ). I need to get more info from him, but if he replaces a few parts so that he has 10 US made parts, he can then add the 30 round magazine, correct?

Maybe I should just talk him into saving for an SAR. He'd probably have more fun with that anyway. Or have him buy a crap load of stripper clips for the thing.
Link Posted: 12/11/2004 8:45:46 AM EDT
[#29]
I hate to jump in to the discussion late but I remember reading an article on this subject (SKS and 922r) back a few years ago. If memory serve correct there was an exemption for Curio and Relics. Basically the Chinese SKS rifles were not allowed to be modified but the Russian (C&R) rifles were allowed have hi caps, bayonets, folders, etc (this was pre AWB, post 922r). Anybody heard of this or am I loosing my memory? If that is true then Yugos would be exempt too?
Link Posted: 12/11/2004 3:13:54 PM EDT
[#30]

Quoted:
I hate to jump in to the discussion late but I remember reading an article on this subject (SKS and 922r) back a few years ago. If memory serve correct there was an exemption for Curio and Relics. Basically the Chinese SKS rifles were not allowed to be modified but the Russian (C&R) rifles were allowed have hi caps, bayonets, folders, etc (this was pre AWB, post 922r). Anybody heard of this or am I loosing my memory? If that is true then Yugos would be exempt too?



Nope, you're wrong.

Per the ATF and the regs, once you change ANYTHING on a C&R rifle (change it from original military configuration), then it's NO LONGER C&R and all the regular 922r stuff applies.

Link Posted: 12/12/2004 8:43:43 AM EDT
[#31]
Ok, that makes sense. As I said it was a faint memory from a while ago so I guess I should get my head checked.
Link Posted: 12/30/2004 6:07:47 AM EDT
[#32]
So, the bottom line as I understand it is, the 30 round mag I got for Christmas is a violation on my SKS sitting in my living room. The gun I purchased has a bayonet lug, but not bayonet. It is a Norinco I believe, likely purchased around 1989. It looks like it is either a relic or it is concidered a modern weopon. If it is a classed as a collector type gun, it should stay stock, or maybe could have interchangeable "evil" attributes, but may not exceed the amount which it came with. How you prove this, I have no idea. If it is a modern weapon, then to modifiy it in a way that makes it illegal to import, it is illegal. My Gun could not have been imported with a 30 round mag for several reasons, and therefore it would be illegal. I have read letters from multiple ATF sources, and there seems to be some conflict concerning this law, but it seems like it is more then likely a violation.


I don't suspect the ATF will come calling, but then again the folks in Wacco probably did not expect tanks and gas to enter there living quarters either.

By the way, this site rocks.

One more question.... Is it possible to look at post older then a month via search, or just to read? I really would like to brouwse the past.

Thanks
Jay

Link Posted: 12/30/2004 6:50:45 AM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:
So, the bottom line as I understand it is, the 30 round mag I got for Christmas is a violation on my SKS sitting in my living room. The gun I purchased has a bayonet lug, but not bayonet. It is a Norinco I believe, likely purchased around 1989. It looks like it is either a relic or it is concidered a modern weopon. If it is a classed as a collector type gun, it should stay stock, or maybe could have interchangeable "evil" attributes, but may not exceed the amount which it came with. How you prove this, I have no idea. If it is a modern weapon, then to modifiy it in a way that makes it illegal to import, it is illegal. My Gun could not have been imported with a 30 round mag for several reasons, and therefore it would be illegal. I have read letters from multiple ATF sources, and there seems to be some conflict concerning this law, but it seems like it is more then likely a violation.


I don't suspect the ATF will come calling, but then again the folks in Wacco probably did not expect tanks and gas to enter there living quarters either.

By the way, this site rocks.

One more question.... Is it possible to look at post older then a month via search, or just to read? I really would like to brouwse the past.

Thanks
Jay




One of the guys over at the "Survivors" SKS boards sight has nailed down the ATF on their interpretation over the last year or two.

Bottom line:  On an SKS, you can't have detachables, you can't have a folding stock, you can't have a bayonette, none of those things individually or collectively, unless you first replace the right number of original imported parts with "USA MADE" equivilents so as to remove the rifle from the purview of Sec. 922(r).   There's significant doubt as to whether the market has supplied sufficient parts to accomplish that goal.  The SKS trigger group, for example, has TWO separate disconnectors, each of which "count" toward the "no more than 10" parts count created by 922(r).  Tapco does sell USA operating rods, gas pistons, handguards, and stock parts.  But unless and until someone comes out with US made Trigger/Hammer/Sear combos, it will be difficult to achieve the "10 or less" compliance necessary to add a folding stock or detachable magazine.
 
If you're interested in an SKS with detachable magazines, get an SKS-M, which was imported in the late 80s and early 90s as modified in the factory in China to accept regular AK-47 mags, which are much more reliable than the "duckbills" anyway.  Since those guns were lawfully imported and were not assembled in violation of 922(r), they're OK to own.
Link Posted: 12/31/2004 6:19:17 AM EDT
[#34]
Gonzo

Thanks a bunch. From the looks of this clip, I doubt very much if it will feed properly. Seems the rounds come up erratically, and are often side by side when it is time to be chameberd. At least I know I can rely on proper feeding with it in stock form.

Thanks again
Jay
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 4:31:29 AM EDT
[#35]
I bought a fixed 20 rd. chinese box mag for my norinco(for $60.00), and it is by far the worst mag I have ever bought. The spring isn't broken on mine, but it is just worn out, and it was "new" in the wrapper. My advice is to stick with your original 10rd box mag, your wallet will be thanking you tomorrow.
                       
Link Posted: 1/18/2005 8:12:17 PM EDT
[#36]
I personally wouldnt worry about it. I aint never heard ofanyone being arrested because of a bayonett or hicap on any rifle. If they have it has been in those few comunist states we have here in the U.S.
Link Posted: 3/19/2005 7:08:26 AM EDT
[#37]
I'll be the first to admit that I get "tired head" when I try to read and understand the "rules" about what features/modifications are allowed, so my understanding may be incorrect, but here goes:

Since the sunset of the AWB, I think the only statute governing non C&R rifles is 922r and the regulations written to interpret/enforce it.  Basically, you cannot assemble a rifle identical to one which is prohibited from import into the US.  However, if your rifle is considered one "made in the US", 922r does not apply and you could have all the same features as say a Bushmaster AR-15 (folding/collapsible stock, flash hider, detachable mags, bayonet, etc.)

In order for your rifle to be considered "made in the US", it must contain ten or less imported parts from the "laundry list".  Since some of those parts are the "evil" ones most of us want to replace, I think it is doable.

You can replace with US parts the stock, handguard, gas piston, operating rod, magazine body, magazine follower and trigger.  I believe the remaining imported parts would number ten or less, and so 922r would not apply.

Now how you prove that a particular part is made in the US is an issue.  I know some parts sold by Tapco say "USA" on the part itself - but what about a part that is so small (trigger) that such marking is not practical, or a part which is sold as made in US but carries no marking at all?

I don't really have any answers, but IMHO, it is possible to legally have a folding stock and detachable hi-cap magazines on your SKS without buying a D or M model.
Link Posted: 7/2/2005 7:08:26 PM EDT
[#38]
I noticed something in the BTAF letter reguarding the duckbill mags. It said imported parts, duckbills are not imported.  Loop hole?h.gif
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 8:04:56 PM EDT
[#39]
hello i am some what new here, so take what i say in general with a grain of salt

true story, during the ban i was at a public range in maryland. there was a guy shooting a chinese sks with a folding stock and detachable mags. after the guy was doing some semi mags dumps another gentle man walked over and asked to see his rifle. well he handed it over, then the stranger asked where the owner got the folding stock he said " oh, its one of the fixed stocks, i just pulled the pin to make it fold" he was then asked when did he buy the rifle and his responce was "  just this weekend at a gun show " the next thing the stranger did was to pull out his BATF id and proceeded to read the owner his rights

now if you ask me the owner asked for it if he had been a little lower key and had not volunteered too much info he would have been ok. and i guess this is why they changed the design to where it took more than just pulling a pin to make em fold

scott
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 7:40:25 AM EDT
[#40]
I have a 30 rd duckbill for my SKS that I bought just to try out.  My yugo is not modified in any way and all serial numbers match.  After removing the trigger group, I realized I would have to remove some wood from the stock in order for the duckbill to fit.  I decided not to do so.  I will stick with the 10 rd box.

Upon further reflection, I have decided that staying with the box mag is the way to go anyway:

1.  I bought some brand new stripper clips for $.50 each.  Those new clips run ammo cleanly and quickly into the box mag.  To remove a duckbill, the user would have to operate the mag release lever which is not in a convenient location on this rifle.  I firmly belive that I can reload the 10 round box mag with a stripper clip almost if not as fast as I could replace an empty duckbill with a fresh one.  

2.  Part of the reason that I bought this weapon was for a useable, affordable homeland defense rifle.  In a SHTF situation when using the rifle for it's intended purpose, would you want to trust your life to a mag of questionable quality and reliability?

3.  In a SHTF situation, you may not have time to police up your empty mags.  At $20 a pop, I'm financially limited as to how many detachable mags I can stockpile.  At $.50 per, I can build up a (practically) unlimited supply of stripper clips.

4.  Again, in a SHTF situation, would you want to be running around in the field with foot long 30 rd mags slapping against your legs?  I'd rather have 10 round mags but more of them, easier to store in pockets and not so bulky...therefore, if I can reload from a stripper almost as fast as change a mag, would only be carrying 10 rd mags anyway (the same capacity of the box mag) and have reliability that I can count on...why on earth would I want to change to detachable mags anyway?

Now...if you bought the thing just to enjoy shooting and want to just have fun with it...modify away.  that's not the purpose of my SKS,  I wanted a reliable, affordable carbine to use in a "katrina" scenario and/or to defend my nation against enemies...including tyrranical government.

Just my $.02

By the way.  If I decide I need something longer ranged and more accurate, I also have an M1 Garand (.30-06) that I am working on upgrading to National Match quality.
Link Posted: 10/26/2005 4:55:20 PM EDT
[#41]
The SKS would be a good defense rifle.  You don't need the questionable quality aftermarket magazines whose legality is questionable.  The SKS can be loaded rapdily with stripper clips and you can carry rounds on stripper clips in pouches.  THe bolt holds open to reload and all you need to do is pull the bolt back to get it to drive a round into the chamber.
Lee Schwartz put together a Q&A on the SKS at this site: http://www.victorinc.com/SKS-FAQ.html  which covers what you can do to your SKS.  
My SKS is a Yugo and I'm not changing anything on mine because it would lose the C&R status and besides that's what we have AK style rifles to modify.

Sailorcurt is right about having to defend ourselved from a tyrannical government like the one in New Orleans who illegally disarmed law abiding citizens.  The 'shooter grade' SKS from AIM would be a good choice to hide with cosmolined stripper clips in a PVC pipe along with a 'spam can' of ammo.  Just make sure you have store something  in the pipe to clean the cosmoline if you ever need it.
Link Posted: 11/13/2005 9:51:55 PM EDT
[#42]
So you can't even use the five rounders than?
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 5:31:16 AM EDT
[#43]
As I understand it, if you have a rifle imported before the ban on importing SKSs with detachable magazines went into effect you can use detachable magazines. If you have a rifle imported after that date and you change enough parts to make it a "US made" rifle, you can use detachable magazines. The critical question is not the number of cartridges the magazine holds but whether it is detachable.
Link Posted: 12/4/2005 7:46:57 AM EDT
[#44]
Link Posted: 12/4/2005 11:00:16 PM EDT
[#45]
Not to hijack the thread (since this thread is mainly for duckbill mag only), what if I keep everything original, still uses the 10rd fix mag; now since the Federal AWB has sunsetted, can I put a stock with pistol grip and folding stock on it? No, I am not going to do it, but some friends has being asking.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 8:12:44 AM EDT
[#46]

Quoted:
Not to hijack the thread (since this thread is mainly for duckbill mag only), what if I keep everything original, still uses the 10rd fix mag; now since the Federal AWB has sunsetted, can I put a stock with pistol grip and folding stock on it? No, I am not going to do it, but some friends has being asking.



922(r) deals with "assembly" of a rifle that would be prohibited from importation in the form you wish to assemble it in.  

SKS rifles cannot be imported with foldings stocks.

Ergo, unless you replace the right number of parts to have what the law will consider a "US Made" rifle, then you cannot put a folder on it.   Because the SKS trigger group has two disconnectors (and both count as a +1 on the 10 or less thing) there is some doubt about whether you can get enough parts into an SKS to allow use of a folding stock.   The most typically replaced parts (on AK pattern rifles, on FALs, and more recently on CETME rifles) have traditionally been the hammer, trigger, sear, disconnector combination.   But SKS trigger groups are wildly varying in specs, and use pressed in pins that make them difficult to smith.  Perhaps becuase of this, no one sells aftermarket US Made triggers, hammers, sears or disconnectors for the SKS.   I've got some drawings relative to a fully redone "ground up" redesign of the whole SKS trigger group (which would be more like an AR style mechanism), but I can't get the price point down to less than
$140 and the bean counters tell me I just wouldn't sell many of these at that price.   Still, I do plan on machining one together next summer in prototype form just for giggles.

Further, if you SKS is not a CHICOM (i.e., if it was imported as a curio and relic), then it must remain in its "original configuration" to keep its C&R status.   This is important because the C&R laws allow possession and transfer of rifles that normally would NOT be importable because of their configurations (i.e., nightsighs, bayonette, and grenede launcher on a YUGO SKS).   The C&R law says that the historical value of these arms allows their importation, transfer and use in such configuration.   If you lose the C&R status by changing that configuration (lets say, for example, even by changing the stock on a Yugo to a monte carlo synthetic), then you no longer have a C&R gun and, in fact, you've assembled a gun that is NOT C&R but contains features which would have precluded its abilty to have been imported.  Put another way, the importers could NOT import SKS rifles with bayonettes, nightsights, and grenade launchers, but with a synthetic stock made in the USA.   So if you change anything on a C&R rifle, technically you'd also have to win the 10 or less game, which is tough.

Bottom line:   SKS rifles are best, legally and practically, as SKS rifles in their original configuration.  And they're very good that way, also.    

 If you want a detachable mag with a folding stock, spend the extra $150 on a WASR AK or (preferably) the extra $300 on a Vector build (both of which which have the right number of US made parts, but the Vectors being MUCH better guns because they use real AK dimension receivers, whereas the WASR's were imported as single stacks and modified stateside after US parts replacement so as to accept detachables).


Link Posted: 12/5/2005 8:22:32 AM EDT
[#47]
Thanks GonzoAR15-1. Very detail explanation. No, I have no intention to screw up my Russian SKS, just try to talk my friend out from making an a** out of himself, as well as possible legal issues if he meet the wrong guy at wrong place/wrong time (ie. ATF agent at the range). Unfortunately, I live in CA so the possibility for me to legally getting an AK is not likely to happen, I will have to stick to my AR as my fun/SHTF rifle until the law loosen up or I move out of CA to USA. Again, thanks for explaining to me.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:28:36 PM EDT
[#48]
I just bought a sks just a few days ago and i orderd a tapco sks 6 position collapsible stock just today before i began reading all this stuff about cirtan modifications that will make your gun illegal, my question is if i put this stock on my rifle will it make it illegal. Theres a picture below can see the stock i bought . Thanks





http://www.tacticalshack.com/store/files/d_611.jpg
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:45:54 PM EDT
[#49]

Quoted:
I just bought a sks just a few days ago and i orderd a tapco sks 6 position collapsible stock just today before i began reading all this stuff about cirtan modifications that will make your gun illegal, my question is if i put this stock on my rifle will it make it illegal. Theres a picture below can see the stock i bought . Thanks





www.tacticalshack.com/store/files/d_611.jpg



If you just replace the stock, the rifle will probably be a problem under 922(r).

If you also add the detachable magazine as pictured there, then you also have a problem with the State of California, where your profile says you life.

Guys, enjoy the SKS rifles as they are:   Decent, reliable, 10 shooters with beat up wood and a high fun to cost ratio.

For the money you spend on "tricking out" an SKS, you're better off just buying an AK clone.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:37:43 AM EDT
[#50]
or 2000 rounds of "hunting" ammo


Quoted:

Quoted:
I just bought a sks just a few days ago and i orderd a tapco sks 6 position collapsible stock just today before i began reading all this stuff about cirtan modifications that will make your gun illegal, my question is if i put this stock on my rifle will it make it illegal. Theres a picture below can see the stock i bought . Thanks





www.tacticalshack.com/store/files/d_611.jpg



If you just replace the stock, the rifle will probably be a problem under 922(r).

If you also add the detachable magazine as pictured there, then you also have a problem with the State of California, where your profile says you life.

Guys, enjoy the SKS rifles as they are:   Decent, reliable, 10 shooters with beat up wood and a high fun to cost ratio.

For the money you spend on "tricking out" an SKS, you're better off just buying an AK clone.

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