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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/2/2005 10:53:50 AM EDT
Were there any Soviet rounds with RED tracers? I am in an argument with another S2 person here in Iraq. I figure it is not impossible. Would manufacturers like WOLF make some?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:01:30 PM EDT
In vietnam, the commie tracers were green and ours were green. Don't know if any commies ever manufactured any red ones.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:54:46 AM EDT
In Vietnam the US used M-62(7.62mm) and M-196(5.56mm) tracers which were red not green. All US small arms tracers since day one have been red not green.
The Russian,Warsaw Pact,and Chinese 7.62x39mm tracers are green.
Tracer ammo would have very limited sales on the US commerical market. So they really wouldn't sell enough to cover the cost of the punches and dies for the machine to make the tracer bullets.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:18:41 AM EDT
I've seen some commercial tracers in red (I suspect perhaps reloaded NATO .308 in x39 cases), but no surplus. Of course you are likely seeing a bit more com-bloc surplus than the average gunshow has to present, so if you find some let us know!
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 4:27:52 AM EDT
I thought .308 is smaller than the (.311?) 7.62x39mm Soviet???
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 6:49:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Renn:
I thought .308 is smaller than the (.311?) 7.62x39mm Soviet???

It is, but some domestic ammo makers used to use .308 sized bullets and I wouldn't put it past a junk ammo maker to load pulled .308 tracers into x39 cases and sell them as some sort of zombie killer.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 1:28:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2005 1:29:21 AM EDT by JA545]
When the Twin Cities US Army Ammunition Plant was closed in the mid 1980's everything was sold at auction. There were millions of 5.56mm and 7.62mm bullets in every stage of mfg. auctioned off. Along with all the machinery to mfg. all the ammo componets and load ammo. All the people that made commerical tracers in the late 1980's and 1990's used the 7.62mm(.308") bullet jackets from there to make 7.62x39mm tracer bullets. There is still alot of this tracer ammo still being sold at gun shows that has red bullet tips or a brighter shade of orange than the M62 bullets. The 7.62x39mm tracer ammo loaded with .308" bullets pulled from 7.62x51mm surplus ammo is pretty easy to spot by the scuffed up paint and it's unique shade of orange.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 1:44:15 AM EDT
hitech ammo has tracer kits. .30 cal hollowed out bullets with instructions on how to make the tracer compound in different colors and how to complete the rounds. Very interesting.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 3:35:40 PM EDT
Sorry, had it backwards. Your right about the vietnam tracers.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 7:21:36 AM EDT
I didn't know you could shoot .308 out of an AK47?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:33:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Renn:
I didn't know you could shoot .308 out of an AK47?

.308 bullets.. Not cartridges

They're not sized properly for the bore, but they shoot.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 10:49:45 PM EDT
I ordered 100 M-62 tracer bullets that were pulled from 7.62x51mm ammo. The bullets were .308" in diameter. I pulled the bullets from 5 boxes of currently imported Russian 7.62x39mm fmj ammo. Weighed the powder charges in 10 rounds and dumped the powder in my powder measure. Reduced the average powder charge weight of the 10 rounds by 3 grains to allow for the heavier M-62 bullets. Then recharged the cases and seated the M-62 bullets to the same over all length as the fmj ammo. They all ignited and became visable around 75 yards then traced till they hit the 300 yard berm. Due to the heaiver weight of the M-62 bullet and lower velosity the bullets dropped more than the factory fmj ammo that the sights were set for. I didn't even attempt to shoot any groups due to the bullet being .308" and not .311".
But they did look cool when rapid fired.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 9:43:19 PM EDT
I order some tracer rounds from SG recently. When the order arrives I'll post a report.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 12:04:05 PM EDT
Just my thoughts on this subject....Soviet tracer in 7.62x39 cal, t-46 type I believe, traces red in color. I have shot untold amounts of this ammo, and just got thru selling off what was left of my last 700 rd tin of this stuff. It was CWSC, green painted tip with red sealant on neck and primer pocket. Real beautiful stuff, some of it is on an auction board from time to time. This stuff was headstamped "711-71". I've had other dates and markings, but all I ever shot was tracing red, with Chinese tracer tracing greenish/yellow.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 8:29:22 PM EDT
i got some tracers from SG today. I haven't fired any but I measured the diameter at the case mouth and weighed the complete cartridges. Here's what iIfound:

The diameter of the bullet at the mouth of the case is.305, Wolf is .307, 70's 80's and90's manufacture Chinese and Russian manufacture runs .309. late production Golden Tiger and Silver Bear (both with neck sealent) is .311. W-W fmj is .310, and some handloads assembled with IMI components runs .3095.

All steel cased ammo weighs approximately 251 to 255 grain for a complete cartiidge. The brass cased WW is 275.5. The brass cased hand load with IMI components weighs 280 grains. The brass cased tracer is 291.5. based upon the foregoing I would expect the accuracy of the tracer to be about equal to the Wolf based on the bullet diameter. I would also expect that the tracer would drop more quickly since the bullet appears to weigh slightly more than usual.

If it doesn't rain all weekend I'll get to the range and post a report.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 2:23:59 PM EDT

I've used thier compound and ready fire, its fun to shoot.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 8:25:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 12:30:53 AM EDT by thesundaysniper]
Poly: Are these the tracers (T-45) that you got from SG?


Whats the verdict?, are these tracers mil issue surplus or comercial pulled reloads using mil componants?
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 4:41:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 4:49:56 AM EDT by POLYTHENEPAM]
Sniper I can't tell for sure how these were made. The cases are U.S. made commercial cases. They look like the manufacturer pulled the bullets on new cases. I had to go to a state range last weekend. NO TRACERS. So I don't have a report yet.
ETA the link you posted doesn't work for me. The SG stock # of the ones I bought is 51590.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:52:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 12:32:15 AM EDT by thesundaysniper]

The SG T45 Tracers I saw are product# 98471

Seein­g is believing! 7.62x39 Tracer Ammo!

Click images to enlarge...

Dramatically increases pattern awareness... you see the sizzling trail! And this is ONLY available here. Clearly visible, day and night. Safe for all guns. Bi-metal plated case, Berdan-primed, non-reloadable, non-corrosive. 144-grain T-45 tracer bullet.

144 grain orange tip, could be .308 bullet reloaded on bimetal 39 mm case?
Anyone know the grain weight of an actual Russian T45 tracer projectile?
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 7:48:19 AM EDT
Those tracers advertised by SG are either M25 or M62 tracers re-loaded into 7.62x39 cases. They will still light up, you just have to be careful when reloading due to the long length of these bullets and the depth they have to be seated to.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 2:15:11 PM EDT
sportsmansguide has red tiped 7.62x39 tracers they're like 20 dollars for 50 i think.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 10:46:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Renn:
Were there any Soviet rounds with RED tracers? I am in an argument with another S2 person here in Iraq. I figure it is not impossible. Would manufacturers like WOLF make some?

I can't believe no one caught this...You're in the S2 cell and don't know? Look outside at night. Those are not US Forces firing into the night sky for S&G's.

Seriously- I'm just giving you a hard time. Most of the ComBloc stuff is green, but I have had several red,(can't recall the headstamp) and a few uber-cool spotter rounds that changed colors, from red to green.

I was once told the ComBlocs used green since the base material is copper, as opposed to the more expensive magnesium used for red tracers. I'm not sure how much of that I believe, but there seems to be a grain of truth there.
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