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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/11/2005 5:17:17 PM EDT
since many of us(myself most certainly included) absolutely HATE to see AR15 parts on a perfectly good AK rifle, why cant we design a collapsing and folding stock designed specifically for the AK, that doesnt look like an AR part? I've been kicking around a couple ideas but nothing serious, I do like the ability to collapse a stock for storage, but CAR stocks look like crap on an AK. and in true AK fashion, why not make it fold while we're at it? any ideas?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:18:47 PM EDT
I'm in baby! I will think about it!
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:45:59 PM EDT
Personally, I would like to see a design that encorporates a wooden sceletonized stock (we've seen pics of one posted on this forum, maybe someone can find it) But I would like to see one made out of some really hard wood, Like oak or something similar, and something that would fold....It would be nice if it had a choice to fold either way, that way if you had a romanian rifle it could fold to the left, and if you had a stock catch(like a Bulgarian or Russian folder) you could have a means to retain it while it's folded. It would be nice to have matching handguards too.....maybe mount a picatinny rail to the forearm for a light mount ....not too sure about that though, I'm sure The Redhorseman would object to anything that would resemble anything even remotely similar to AR type accessories! Just throwing out some ideas...Hope they don't sound too lame!
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:47:22 PM EDT
A novel idea. I like the idea of a tele stock on an ak, but since none are available, a car stock adapter seems like the next best thing. I've had the idea to mod or build from scratch an ak specific stock for a little while, but all of my money has been tied up in my other expensive hobby, plus I'm not really handy in that capacity so it never got off the ground. It's a damn shame too because I hate reading people crying like a bunch of fags about how <whiney French voice>a car stock on an ak doesn't look right.</whiney French voice> Well my friends, this is your chance to shit or get off the pot. Oh, in case you couldn't tell, I was being an asshole.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:55:00 PM EDT
Standard AK stocks are too short for me, so I like the idea.

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:23:35 PM EDT
I know VEPR's are ugly to some, but could you start with that shape, then make a tube/stock/rail for it to travel on?


To me, VEPR's are dead sexy, so it wouldn't be too ugly.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:30:30 PM EDT
How about this?

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:32:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Darkest2000:
How about this?

aster.iespana.es/aster/images/ak74.jpg



Damn that's perfect let's just stay with that....
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:40:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:57:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jicky:

Originally Posted By Darkest2000:
How about this?

aster.iespana.es/aster/images/ak74.jpg



Damn that's perfect let's just stay with that....



+1

I think that the current folding stocks for AK's are more than sufficient.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:05:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Jicky:

Originally Posted By Darkest2000:
How about this?

aster.iespana.es/aster/images/ak74.jpg



Damn that's perfect let's just stay with that....



+1

I think that the current folding stocks for AK's are more than sufficient.



So...does it telescope? Didn't think so.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:21:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 7:21:51 AM EDT by kythri]
Telescoping schmeliscoping.

Who cares how it gets out of the way, as long as it does?

Regardless, if you've got some kind of hard-on for a telescoping AK stock, why not look at hybridizing an HK-style telescoping stock?

Examine an underfolder when it's folded up, and see how there's a groove out of the underfolder for the selector, etc.

Obviously, I'm not an engineer - I forsee stability problems with this while it's partially telescoped, as the AK receiver doesn't have the channels like an HK receiver.

Realistically, there's so many options for folding stocks anymore - you've got underfolders and traditional side folders, both of which require milling of the reciever. You've got Romy/Polish/German side folders, and the new Bulgarian SF folders that don't require modification.

You've also got ugly-ass US-made folders that you see on the WASR-10's at the gun show, and, of course, the idiotic AR telestocks.

I guess what I don't understand is why you would want a telestock over a folding stock - the entire idea of the folding or telescoping stock was to get it out of the way for portability.

How many people actually use their AR with the stock "partially" telescoped? I shoot with a wide variety of people, in all heights and sizes. I'm 6'9" tall (at one end of the extreme), and have friends/shooting partners that are closer to 5' tall (at the other end of the extreme), and of all of them who have shot my M4-gery (with 6-position stock, oh my!), none have ever used any of the middle settings - they always extend the stock to the full position.

Like I said, I'm just curious.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:26:10 AM EDT
I am just suprised that the only 2 folding stocks made in US are the Ace and the Tapco. There has to be a happy medium between high end and well.....Tapco. That is why I resorted to my franken-stock.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:55:19 AM EDT
What we need is K-var to start molding these:

www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=35355137

So we can have this:

www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/saiga-m3exp.shtml
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:08:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 8:15:42 AM EDT by jugrunner]

Originally Posted By Darkest2000:
How about this?

aster.iespana.es/aster/images/ak74.jpg



Ok ... This is the design we're looking for ...

Sliding tube concept ... Rear half larger dia. ... Slides onto smaller front half tube ... Sq. or Rnd ? .. SQ.

Need to be heavy gauge steel ... One tube will have to be "hinged" or have the ability to move due to the changing geometry as it collapses ...

Will need a Strong but simple locking system ...

This design would collapse the stock to almost half it's original length ...

All I got for now ...

ETA: This could stand to be real heavy gauge stuff ... Most underfolders and side folders are too light in the azz ...
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 5:02:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drobs:
What we need is K-var to start molding these:

www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=35355137

So we can have this:

www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/saiga-m3exp.shtml



I'd love to find one of those stocks.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 5:03:50 PM EDT
www.aceltdusa.com/ar15.htm
I'm looking at the top two stocks and thinking maybe something to this effect mounted on a hinge.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 5:08:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ozone_00:
www.aceltdusa.com/ar15.htm
I'm looking at the top two stocks and thinking maybe something to this effect mounted on a hinge.



that is an AR15 stock

drop and give me 50
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 5:11:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 5:29:25 PM EDT by ozone_00]

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By ozone_00:
www.aceltdusa.com/ar15.htm
I'm looking at the top two stocks and thinking maybe something to this effect mounted on a hinge.



that is an AR15 stock

drop and give me 50


I didn't mean that exact stock

get down on your knees and tell me you love me
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 5:29:15 PM EDT
lets do it!!
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:14:35 PM EDT
How about a parasaw type stock, Or a calico style. That way you could totally compact the stock and still have the choice to collapse it in incriments.. I have an inderfolder and have been toying around with this idea, But I just havent had the time to get to my machine shop and make one (carcasm) If the rails run straight in and out down the frame you could just put some notches in the catch to hold it in place. And you would still be able to have a full buttplate, I am tired ot horse shoe bruises in the shoulder.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:55:11 PM EDT
Didn't Val Kilmer use that. . . . . . . . .nevermind!!
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:20:44 PM EDT
All you're looking at doing is trying to find a new kind AR15 style collapsible stock that hasn't been made yet and put on the AR15. The Magpul stocks are the most unconventional looking, and therefore the least AR15. There is a common ancestral look between the CAR, M4, VLTOR and SOCOM/Crane stocks.

The AK design is a great one, but it has inherent shortcomings if you are comparing it to the AR's modularity. The AR collapsible stock was originally seen as not as good as the folding stock on the FAL or the Galil. It has only been in the last decade or so that it is now seen as superior for accomodating different lengths of pull and the widespread use of body armor.

The HK style, double strut collapsible is not as comfortable, or as sturdy. The Magpul uses a constant length tube/cheek rest with the stock sliding/collapsing underneath. You could try a somewhat similar idea in that your fixed, larger diameter tube is on the receiver end and the butt portion has the smaller diameter tube that collapses into the butt-tube. It will look a little different than an AR, but only a little.

Unless you are just looking at spending a lot of money on a lark, do you really need collapsing AND folding? The best, modern rendition of the AK that I have seen is Grenadier Precision's little toy. That is a sweet gun and the stock is the best looking one I've seen. I know, others will disagree. Long live diversity!
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:43:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kythri:
Telescoping schmeliscoping.

Who cares how it gets out of the way, as long as it does?

Regardless, if you've got some kind of hard-on for a telescoping AK stock, why not look at hybridizing an HK-style telescoping stock?

Examine an underfolder when it's folded up, and see how there's a groove out of the underfolder for the selector, etc.

Obviously, I'm not an engineer - I forsee stability problems with this while it's partially telescoped, as the AK receiver doesn't have the channels like an HK receiver.



From just a quick eyeball-engineering perspective it would appear that an internal H&K or MAC-10 style might work but you'd be limited to ~4" of telescoping before the hammer axis pin gets in the way. Maybe a bit more if the arms of the stock were higher (clear up to the support crossmember) but the safety would get in the way.

A M3 Greasegun or M231 Port Firing Weapon style external wire telestock might work better, except you'd still run into the problem of the safety getting in the way.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:55:40 PM EDT
I had considered putting and AR stock on my AK, but since decided otherwise. I don’t think its a big deal if that’s what you want and it works for you, but it is nice to see someone trying to fix the problem as opposed to bitching to people about it.

If you could create a half decent one, I would buy one

Oh and make some in Tan
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:56:31 PM EDT
I'd be happy with a U.S. made krink style triangle folder, even one a little bit longer than normal. You would think that could be kept under a $100......In steel though---none of that plastic crap
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:58:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Unka-Boo:
I'd be happy with a U.S. made krink style triangle folder, even one a little bit longer than normal. You would think that could be kept under a $100......In steel though---none of that plastic crap



the problem with that is they require a fair amount of machine work and stamping, I highly doubt you could domestically produce one and sell it for under $100 and still make a profit(which is the point of a business of course..)
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 9:26:02 PM EDT
I think drobs has the best idea: A copy or near-copy of the Ak-74M folding plastic buttstock. One gets all the functional benefits of a solid stock with the folding convenience of a wire stock. I see AK-74M stock sets for sale on gunbroker.com for $200+ and Tantal (the screen name, not the Polish rifle) barely had them in stock for a month when he managed to get his hands on a few of them. The demand is there. What is not there is a domestic manufacturer. We have a demand and a market. Anybody want to start up a new stock manufacturing business? :)

i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/EzraColi/Gunpics/ak74mfin_06.jpg

The only possible stumbling block (aside from investment capital) I can think of is patents. I think the AK-74M stock was designed after the fall of the USSR. Izhmash might get in a snit and go after the manufacturer for IP violation if a direct part-for-part copy is attempted. One of our lawyer-type members may have some insight on this, eh?

Galland
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 9:28:33 PM EDT
sure I agree that having a local source for the folders is great, but I want it all, I want a collapsing and folding stock. maybe I'll have to butcher one of my AMD folders and do some surgery
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 12:43:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
since many of us(myself most certainly included) absolutely HATE to see AR15 parts on a perfectly good AK rifle, why cant we design a collapsing and folding stock designed specifically for the AK, that doesnt look like an AR part? I've been kicking around a couple ideas but nothing serious, I do like the ability to collapse a stock for storage, but CAR stocks look like crap on an AK. and in true AK fashion, why not make it fold while we're at it? any ideas?



Hmm...maybe because the AR stocks are readily available, and more importantly, they actually work?

LOL, what is this, AK house of style?

Go find a post by Matt_B and look at his sigline. Read it over and over until you understand it.

Link Posted: 8/13/2005 6:31:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kythri:
Telescoping schmeliscoping.

Who cares how it gets out of the way, as long as it does?

Regardless, if you've got some kind of hard-on for a telescoping AK stock, why not look at hybridizing an HK-style telescoping stock?

Examine an underfolder when it's folded up, and see how there's a groove out of the underfolder for the selector, etc.

Obviously, I'm not an engineer - I forsee stability problems with this while it's partially telescoped, as the AK receiver doesn't have the channels like an HK receiver.

Realistically, there's so many options for folding stocks anymore - you've got underfolders and traditional side folders, both of which require milling of the reciever. You've got Romy/Polish/German side folders, and the new Bulgarian SF folders that don't require modification.

You've also got ugly-ass US-made folders that you see on the WASR-10's at the gun show, and, of course, the idiotic AR telestocks.

I guess what I don't understand is why you would want a telestock over a folding stock - the entire idea of the folding or telescoping stock was to get it out of the way for portability.

How many people actually use their AR with the stock "partially" telescoped? I shoot with a wide variety of people, in all heights and sizes. I'm 6'9" tall (at one end of the extreme), and have friends/shooting partners that are closer to 5' tall (at the other end of the extreme), and of all of them who have shot my M4-gery (with 6-position stock, oh my!), none have ever used any of the middle settings - they always extend the stock to the full position.

Like I said, I'm just curious.



I thought that was the whole point behind the telescope was the adjustable length of pull. On a 6 position I use mine on 2 clicks in. With winter clothing and vests another two clicks in. If it telescopes in merely to be less cumbersome for storage, it does not change overall length very much.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:05:33 AM EDT
Something similiar to a Para-SAW collapsable stock maybe?
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:53:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Hmm...maybe because the AR stocks are readily available, and more importantly, they actually work? and they look like something from some prepubescent counter strike kid's wet dream?

LOL, what is this, AK house of style? yes, if you dont like it, leave

Go find a post by Matt_B and look at his sigline. Read it over and over until you understand it.
odd, I'm looking for function with the added benefit of being something unique to the AK world, again if you dont like it, leave



fucking AR owners
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:00:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:52:57 AM EDT


ZM folding-collapsible stock


Something like this, except with an AK stock attachment instead of the AR one, would be cool. I'd buy it.

The worst thing about AR stocks on AK's is the stupid buffer tube sticking out. An AK with an AR stock isn't substantially more compact than an AK with a fixed combloc length stock.

Wire stocks have an incredibly shitty cheekweld. I don't know why anyone would want one.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 10:13:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2005 10:17:59 AM EDT by Findsman]

Probably be expensive to make, but no one said I was working on a budget here. Looks traditional, slides, could be finagled to fold though you'd need to dump the old front latch from the AKS for something else. Spring tension maybe? Keep the internal support metal so you could chop in half for the folding mechanism without causing too much "it's going to break" issues. I dunno, first pass idea--I'm a software engineer, not a mechanical one!

ETA - ImageShack seems to be flaking out...if the image is not coming up, hit refresh once or twice.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:24:14 AM EDT
I was thinking the same thing!



Originally Posted By Sigurd:
yankeehill.bizland.com/store/media/ZM-TF-601.jpg

ZM folding-collapsible stock


Something like this, except with an AK stock attachment instead of the AR one, would be cool. I'd buy it.

The worst thing about AR stocks on AK's is the stupid buffer tube sticking out. An AK with an AR stock isn't substantially more compact than an AK with a fixed combloc length stock.

Wire stocks have an incredibly shitty cheekweld. I don't know why anyone would want one.



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