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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/31/2003 8:27:52 AM EDT
if I get a ak its going to be my home security rifle, is there any ammo out there that is reliable and fairly effective without too much overpenetration? how about some mag safe or softpoints? are the cheap russian softpoints anygood?
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 9:31:14 AM EDT
Barnaul 125gr SP is very good. Overpenetration depends on your environment, but much safer to those in adjacent areas than FMJ.

But for fine house security with less wall penetration, get a AK74 clone in 5.45x39. And a full 30rnd mag is about half the weight of 7.62 for faster handling.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 10:36:18 AM EDT
I love ak's but IMHO, you are asking for trouble if you ever intend on using the AK for home defense. The court system will tear you up. We won't even go into the penetration issues.

Better to nail someone with a plain jane hunting shot gun or a plain jane pistol. If you use a tricked out pistol or shot gun. The jury's will think you were laying for the poor helpless thiefs.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 12:26:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blazeone:
I love ak's but IMHO, you are asking for trouble if you ever intend on using the AK for home defense. The court system will tear you up. We won't even go into the penetration issues.

Better to nail someone with a plain jane hunting shot gun or a plain jane pistol. If you use a tricked out pistol or shot gun. The jury's will think you were laying for the poor helpless thiefs.



I live in a rural area so we have a shoot and shovel policy.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 2:15:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 3:11:40 PM EDT
I personally feel a 12 gauge shotgun is the ultimate in home defense firearms.

But I do keep a '74 loaded with Barnaul SP as well.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 3:50:17 PM EDT
And any weapon that's had it's FCG modified,(ie) replaced or worked over for a lighter pull is also a liability in a court of law.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 4:45:34 PM EDT
I tend to look at it as if it was in the same scenario as being a patrol rifle. I would think that loads designed for hunting would be the ideal. I know that Corbon makes a load for the 7.62 Soviet, but it's expensive and I only have 20 rounds, so a thorough test will not be coming for a while. I would think that loads other than the import hollowpoints and FMJ's should be a decent combination, and ideally fast frangible loads ala 5.56 would be great. It can be done, but the development hasn't been there due to lack of interest. My personal wish/opinion is that weapons and loads along this line does get developed more. If the .223 as a rifle round can be developed into an excellent interior cartridge, the 7.62x39, being in the same intermediate class, should have much of the same potential. Problem is, the villifying of the AK really makes using it for defense a tough call.
http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000188.html

http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000047.html
http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000369.html
http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000478.html
http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000141.html
Try these other links for other 7.62x39 recommended loads. Do a search though for more info before asking stuff on that site though. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 4:33:53 AM EDT
Aside from all the liability questions of what to use and what not to use (which is important, but it's your choice in the end). Another option is a MAK-90 in .223 (or a SAR-3). There you have all the advantages of an AK, and the ammo development of the .223. Just go to the Ammo FAQ onn the AR board and read away as to the best .223 for your application and try it out. There is a much wider selection of .223 than 5.45 or 7.62.

If you're in a rural area where you may be using your AK as a working gun (like as a beater you keep with you in the tractor, truck cab, etc. everywhere you go, then I'd lean to wards a 7.62x39.

A Saiga in any caliber would be hard to beat, and solve a great deal of the "evil looks" problems. It'd be cheap too.

Ross
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 5:27:43 AM EDT
Ditto on the shoot and shovel policy. I live out in the boonies also and have no intent of calling the cops. Personally think I'd have to be some kind of idiot to even get them involved but that's MO. A gunshot around my area is not ever going to be called in or responded to for that matter.

As for home defense, I don't think much of a shotgun. Penetrates walls alot better than most people think and with a carbine I can hit what I'm aiming at and not worry about a large pattern hitting someone else. What if the perp has one of your family? Shotgun is now completely useless. I'll take my M4. Add a tarp and a shovel and I'm all set.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 5:36:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WildWes:
I personally feel a 12 gauge shotgun is the ultimate in home defense firearms.

But I do keep a '74 loaded with Barnaul SP as well.



Dude I'm the same way (except I keep my mags loaded with good ole' Wolf.....).

I like to go Cowboy Action for home defense (and I don't even participate in Cowboy Action Shooting). I figure a double barreled coach gun and a Vaquero .45 LC are the way to go.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 7:28:54 AM EDT
There are several rounds for the 7.62x39 made for this purpose - Glaser, MagSafe and 'SWAT' ammunition. All are intended to do what's necessary with less penetration/ricochet. Generally, they use a lighter, frangible bullet.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 8:41:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2003 8:43:04 AM EDT by Belloc]
Winchester Super-X and Nosler Ballistic Tips are both reported to fragment after penetration.

www.chestnutridge.com/products/ammo.asp

www.georgia-arms.com/rifle2.htm

Link Posted: 6/1/2003 10:17:34 AM EDT
Saiga 12, 2x 10rnd USAS-12 mags, one ball, one buck. Dont do my conversion on the stock or trigger (after all you dont want to bait them) but tag a red dot COBRA sight on her. Perfect compromise between an AK and a shotgun.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 11:28:41 AM EDT
Winchester 123gr Soft Points have been shown to have some of the lowest penetration of all the 7.62 loads when tested in ballistic gelatin.

It has an average penetration of 14.4"
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 11:31:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Winchester 123gr Soft Points have been shown to have some of the lowest penetration of all the 7.62 loads when tested in ballistic gelatin.

It has an average penetration of 14.4"



If that's the lowest that's a bit much penetration for a home defense weapon.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 11:32:45 AM EDT
Agreed
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 2:48:56 PM EDT
Pistol caliber carbines have the same penetration, averaging 12-14 inches I believe.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 2:52:32 PM EDT
12-14" is ideal for terminal effects on an aggressor. However, it has the potential to be very overpenetrative on barrier material that most residences are constructed of.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 8:43:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Winchester 123gr Soft Points have been shown to have some of the lowest penetration of all the 7.62 loads when tested in ballistic gelatin.

It has an average penetration of 14.4"



Id the Winchester SP the same as their "Super-X" SP? If so, as has been mentioned, that, I think, would be a good round. A penetration of 14 plus the reported round fragmentation would be a good round for HD.
And is there any site on the net with these tests posted? Thanks.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 5:18:47 PM EDT
When iwas a noob idiot and didnt know gun safety
suffice to say i accidently fired a 7.62x 39 in my house! It went through 2in concrete wall and into another wall stopping at the second wall. which was another 2in of concrete. I recovered the bullet which was only slightly deformed. so it will probably penetrate any wall and stop at second wall!
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 7:31:10 PM EDT
Yes, the 545 using either Barnual or Wolf soft point or Hollow point would be good for soft targets . This round is Not much penetrating hard targets ,but great on soft targets.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 7:31:51 PM EDT
Yes, the 545 using either Barnual or Wolf soft point or Hollow point would be good for soft targets . This round is Not much penetrating hard targets ,but great on soft targets.
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